Offline currency Bitcoin standard

[drHussein]

Subject: Offline currency Bitcoin standard

Message:

In a world where financial sovereignty is crucial, I’m sharing a concept for offline digital currency using multisig crypto wallets. Here, wallet keys themselves act as currency, with wallet balances locked until a multisig unlocks them.

Concept Overview:
- Locked Wallets as Currency: Each wallet is locked, holding crypto value (e.g., $100 in BTC). Funds are inaccessible until multisig signatures unlock them.
- Key Transfer = Payment: If Alice owns a locked wallet with $100, she can pay Bob offline by securely transferring the wallet’s keys to him. Alice’s keys are completely destroyed after transfer, so only Bob controls the wallet. The wallet remains locked, keeping funds protected until multisig unlock.
- Key Destruction ("Burn after send"): To avoid double-spending and copying, after Alice gives her keys to Bob:
    1. Alice’s key material is securely destroyed.
    2. Bob receives new keys, giving him exclusive control.
    3. Record (audit log or proof) is created to ensure key handoff was singular and legitimate.
- Withdrawal ("DAO unlock"): If Mia gets keys to a wallet and wants to withdraw, she requests unlock on a DAO platform. She proves wallet control (by signing a message), and DAO validators sign off before funds are released. This guardrails against unauthorized unlocks.

Algorithm Outline:
1. Pay Offline:
    - Alice initiates transfer and destroys her own keys.
    - Bob receives new keys; transfer is logged and signed.
    - Only one valid key owner exists; double-spending attempts are caught via proof of key destruction.
2. Withdraw Online:
    - New owner requests withdrawal with proof of ownership.
    - DAO validators verify, co-sign, and release funds.

Benefits:
- True offline payments—no internet needed for transfers.
- Prevention of double-spending by enforcing key destruction and audit trails.
- Cryptocurrency can be passed around like physical cash, but with cryptographic certainty.
- Decentralized withdrawal security via DAO multisig.

I welcome feedback on the architecture, ways to boost offline usability or multisig security, and similar experiences with key-as-money systems or DAO multisig validators!

[1](https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=post;board=12.0)

[examplens]

In simpler terms, you suggest that transactions do not include sending coins, but sending private keys. A rather bad idea with many disadvantages and certainly more risks.
Although you present this initially as an offline method, in the end you still need an intermediary DAO validator that is online. So, the idea is for the sender and receiver to remain offline, and leave everything to a third-party online solution.

I'm not sure I see a way for users to connect to the DAO validator offline?
Why would it even be a goal to avoid an internet connection? If there is no internet or electricity, then the only thing left is to use paper money.

Cryptocurrency can be passed around like physical cash, but with cryptographic certainty.

So let's use cryptocurrencies as physical cash, but only on a little more complicated way.

[drHussein]

I'm not seeking to replace paper money, but rather to replicate the value and privacy it holds. Since Bitcoin emerged as a currency, there is a genuine demand from people wanting payment solutions that preserve privacy and anonymity. As Jack Dorsey proposed with concepts like BitChat, we need offline-capable payment methods—potentially using BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy) mesh networks—that can prevent double-spending while maintaining absolute value storage.

Paper money faces inflation, and that's precisely where true offline digital currency becomes essential. The DAO validator serves an important purpose: preventing scams and security threats during the settlement and withdrawal phases. We might implement BLE mesh networks to achieve full offline compatibility in the future. However, for final withdrawal to the main blockchain, internet connectivity would still be necessary.

This approach combines the best of both worlds—offline transactional privacy like physical cash, with cryptographic security and decentralized validation.

[shinohai]

I'm not seeking to replace paper money, but rather to replicate the value and privacy it holds. Since Bitcoin emerged as a currency, there is a genuine demand from people wanting payment solutions that preserve privacy and anonymity. As Jack Dorsey proposed with concepts like BitChat, we need offline-capable payment methods—potentially using BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy) mesh networks—that can prevent double-spending while maintaining absolute value storage.

Paper money faces inflation, and that's precisely where true offline digital currency becomes essential. The DAO validator serves an important purpose: preventing scams and security threats during the settlement and withdrawal phases. We might implement BLE mesh networks to achieve full offline compatibility in the future. However, for final withdrawal to the main blockchain, internet connectivity would still be necessary.

This approach combines the best of both worlds—offline transactional privacy like physical cash, with cryptographic security and decentralized validation.

>Almost 2026.
>Still building things on insecure bluetooth frequencies.

[drHussein]

The reply seems to miss the main point of my project: it's not just about Bluetooth security, but about replicating the freedom and privacy that cash provides—now possible with Bitcoin, even completely offline.

Offline = Freedom. True freedom is the ability to transact privately, directly, and without banks, central authorities or constant internet access—just like cash. Going offline protects against surveillance, censorship, and internet outages.

Our approach makes Bitcoin behave like true paper cash:
- Anyone can pass value face-to-face with full privacy, no middleman.
- Doublespending is managed with cryptography and local validation, safeguarded by a DAO, so even offline coins remain secure and usable—online only required for final settlement.
- No online trace or data sharing until withdrawal to the main blockchain.

Offline digital cash fights inflation and puts secure, anonymous money in people's hands—using Bitcoin's code and guarantees. Bluetooth is just the tool for peer-to-peer, 'hand-to-hand' digital transfers, not a replacement for banks.

Staying offline is about absolute freedom—the same as cash, but even stronger thanks to cryptography. That's the innovation: real, secure, private value transfer, even without internet.

[Ucy]

It's not enough or even responsible to build a privacy/freedom tech without considering or implementing countermeasures against abuse by criminals. A responsible tech must always have the countermeasure, like Bitcoin does with transparent transactions, UTXO etc, And if this countermeasures are achieved without violation of basic natural laws such as privacy, censorship resistance, trustlessness etc, you end up creatng a safe and lawful tech like Bitcoin, which could be considered good— A solution is good if it does not create more problems.

By the way, I'm also interested in offline bitcoin, but prefer it more on online/offline detachable subnetwork-sidechain (detachable from a Multichain networks) that works on mobile phones. The sidechain will have "pegged" bitcoins that can be used offline by its community or network.

 The community or sidechain detaches from the rest of the network taking along them pegged bitcoins they wish to use offline. Once internet becomes available they can rejoin, and the other chains verify and accept them