Hardware Wallets are becoming a luxury

[PrivacyG]

I was looking today at some prices of current generations of popular Hardware Wallets and to me it looks like it is becoming an actual luxury to own one these days.  Particularly B S Wallets like current Ledgers.

At this point does it not make a lot more sense to simply use an old computer or laptop and set it up as an Airgapped Wallet, even for very large Wallets?  It is not only free if you already have an older computer but it does not come with problems such as some thing becoming too old and out dated.  Before, it was a small expense to protect any budget.  Now it is becoming a very fancy device that does not only cost too much but also looks fancy enough to be one of the first probable targets of a 5-Dollar Wrench attack.

[julerz12]

I guess that's one of the impact of massive exposure the crypto-space has been bathe with.
Businesses will always think of ideas to monitize that popularity and that includes making fancy hardware wallets with touchscreens, 55 inch OLED displays, adding feature nobody wanted ^{(cough* Ledger Recover)}, and a support for a gazillion of altcoins. I wouldn't be surprised that one day, one hardware wallet will be plated with gold and diamonds and will be sold as "the most luxurious hardware wallet a crypto billionaire can buy".

[Hatchy]

I was looking today at some prices of current generations of popular Hardware Wallets and to me it looks like it is becoming an actual luxury to own one these days.  Particularly B S Wallets like current Ledgers.

It seems that the design of hardware wallets is getting more attention than their internal security features. I question whether people even understand why they need a hardware wallet. A hardware wallet is defined by the fact that it is offline and never connects to the internet. Still, you must store it safely, just like any other storage method. Regardless of how stylish your hardware wallet is, revealing it in public is a risk that makes you a threat. Today, people often prioritize luxury over privacy, leading to many issues with securing their funds. I'll rather create an airgapped device than focus on the today's hardware wallet progedy.

[zabzob]

The only advantages I see in hardware wallets over an air-gapped laptop is portability and the use of secure elements. Apart from that, the popular HW wallets have increasingly turned into shiny bling. As for secure elements, it seems to me they can be more of a liability than an enhancement in some cases. So now we have the hardware wallet businesses dropping devices with 2 or even three different SE's. Will we see 4, 5 SE's in the next generation of wallets? Soon the wallets will be bigger than laptops, with all those (in)secure elements.

[SFR10]

At this point does it not make a lot more sense to simply use an old computer or laptop and set it up as an Airgapped Wallet, even for very large Wallets?

I can argue on both sides since it depends on someone else's knowledge and skills to properly set up an airgapped wallet ^{[unfortunately, there's no one-size-fits-all solution]}.

Before, it was a small expense to protect any budget.  Now it is becoming a very fancy device that does not only cost too much but also looks fancy enough to be one of the first probable targets of a 5-Dollar Wrench attack.

You have a point, but lower-priced HWs still exist. Concerning the latter part, I don't get why some users flash their HWs in public or brag about their wealth on various social media platforms, but most reputable manufacturers offer some kind of decoy wallet as a solution.

[ABCbits]

At this point does it not make a lot more sense to simply use an old computer or laptop and set it up as an Airgapped Wallet, even for very large Wallets?  It is not only free if you already have an older computer but it does not come with problems such as some thing becoming too old and out dated.

It makes sense for people who're willing to setup airgapped device and don't mind the some inconvenience (usually about sending unsigned TX to and signed TX securely). Hardware wallet remain better option for average people.

Before, it was a small expense to protect any budget.  Now it is becoming a very fancy device that does not only cost too much but also looks fancy enough to be one of the first probable targets of a 5-Dollar Wrench attack.

Cryptocurrency is more popular these days, so all that matters for criminal is recognizing your hardware wallet appearance.

[_act_]

At this point does it not make a lot more sense to simply use an old computer or laptop and set it up as an Airgapped Wallet, even for very large Wallets?  It is not only free if you already have an older computer but it does not come with problems such as some thing becoming too old and out dated. 

If you can convert to Linux OS, it will be a very long years before you will see the computer become too old not to support the wale anymore. I can still remember the Windows 7 that Electrum is no longer supporting, you can convert the same computers to Linux OS and continue to enjoy your Electrum on it.

But also it is airgapped, no need to continue updating the wallet. This makes it different from online Electrum wallet

[rdluffy]

I understand your frustration
Here in my country (Brazil), hardware wallets are very expensive because, in addition to the price in dollars or euros (our currency is worth 5x less than the dollar, for example), we also have to pay very high taxes or buy from local suppliers, who also pay high taxes

However, if you are patient, you can find good deals, such as Trezor, which sometimes offers good deals on one or two models a few times a year
The other day, the Trezor One was available for $24.50 and the Model T for $64.50, and you could buy them from Trezor itself or from Amazon

Depending on your portfolio, $64.50 may be a lot if you have, say, $1,000 or less invested
But for larger amounts, I believe it is a fair price to pay for the security and ease of use that hard wallets offer
Hardly anyone “needs” a more advanced model than the ones companies are selling for over $200

[Lucius]

I was looking today at some prices of current generations of popular Hardware Wallets and to me it looks like it is becoming an actual luxury to own one these days.  Particularly B S Wallets like current Ledgers.
~snip~

I agree that for some people $200 or more is a luxury they can't afford, but for some other people it's a relatively small amount that they wouldn't call a luxury, especially if they want to store their private keys securely. If we take the members of this forum as an example, anyone who is in a sig campaign can afford one of the most expensive HW in a month or two weeks.

Of course, any old computer can be turned into an air-gapped wallet, but it seems to me that many people are not sure how it works, so they don't even try. An out-of-the-box solution is still much simpler for most people.

~snip~
I wouldn't be surprised that one day, one hardware wallet will be plated with gold and diamonds and will be sold as "the most luxurious hardware wallet a crypto billionaire can buy".

Maybe they already exist, but it would not be logical for their owners to show them around. Imagine HW that is worth several dozen times more than what is stored on it. For mere mortals, there were versions of the Trezor model that sold for $1000, but as far as I can see, they are no longer produced.

[Forsyth Jones]

...

I agree that for some people $200 or more is a luxury they can't afford, but for some other people it's a relatively small amount that they wouldn't call a luxury, especially if they want to store their private keys securely. If we take the members of this forum as an example, anyone who is in a sig campaign can afford one of the most expensive HW in a month or two weeks.

Of course, any old computer can be turned into an air-gapped wallet, but it seems to me that many people are not sure how it works, so they don't even try. An out-of-the-box solution is still much simpler for most people.

I agree, it's become like a smartphone market, where Ledger releases a new model every week that does practically the same thing as the previous model. Before, there was a 3-5 year gap between new model releases.

It's become a luxury symbol. I confess that the idea of ​​having the latest model from your favorite brand is nice, but unfortunately it's unfeasible for most people.

I still think that using an air-gapped PC and another online device to transmit transactions, or a DIY device like Krux, is safer than Ledger or Trezor wallets, but few people have the technical knowledge for that and end up buying a device that comes with everything ready-made.

The good thing is that this market is evolving. Trezor, with its open-source SE (TROPIC01), is a great example, these devices are secure for most people. However, an open source air-gapped device is always safer.

[Stalker22]

Im totally fine with my old hardware wallets (definitely not Ledger!), but I get your point.

Those new hardware wallets are way too expensive and not worth it.  Buying that fancy $400 one doesnt make you safer; it just makes you a bigger target.

But lets be honest, using an old air-gapped PC?  its a huge, complicated pain in the ass.  Setting up that old machine is slow, annoying, and you could easily mess something up.  Complexity kills security.  One little mistake, and your air-gap is useless.

Seriously, stop worrying so much.  Just get a cheap, reliable hardware wallet.  Its really the only way most people will stay secure without spending all their time managing their crypto.

[Zaguru12]

I still think that using an air-gapped PC and another online device to transmit transactions, or a DIY device like Krux, is safer than Ledger or Trezor wallets, but few people have the technical knowledge for that and end up buying a device that comes with everything ready-made.

The good thing is that this market is evolving. Trezor, with its open-source SE (TROPIC01), is a great example, these devices are secure for most people. However, an open source air-gapped device is always safer.

Personally I prefer my own airgapped set up and not actually using hardware wallets which I have to change just if a ledger happens to them or I have one like Trezor which actually just designs new ones almost every time. With your own personal device as airgapped you don’t get to actually experience all this, it is like someone who built his own pc instead of buying one.

But regardless of all this which makes me rate airgapped device higher than hardware wallet, I don’t actually think that it is a good idea that the one should advice a newbie to actually use this set up, for me it is not such a set that everyone can jump upon, a newbie can simply make a mistake which renders the wallet more of hot wallet which is tricky and major reason why my advice will be for newbies to actually go for all this custom hardware wallets

[ABCbits]

However, if you are patient, you can find good deals, such as Trezor, which sometimes offers good deals on one or two models a few times a year
The other day, the Trezor One was available for $24.50 and the Model T for $64.50, and you could buy them from Trezor itself or from Amazon

Your suggestion is good, but both model aren't current generation that stated by OP. Trezor One released in 2014, while Trezoe Model T released in 2018.

But lets be honest, using an old air-gapped PC?  its a huge, complicated pain in the ass.  Setting up that old machine is slow, annoying, and you could easily mess something up.  Complexity kills security.  One little mistake, and your air-gap is useless.

The slow part can be partially solved if you choose to use lightweight linux distro or willing to spend a bit of money for upgrade. Switching from HDD or eMMC to SSD and adding more RAM capacity may make big difference. But otherwise i agree complexity will lead to mistake that weaken the security or even losing access to the wallet.

[Synchronice]

I was looking today at some prices of current generations of popular Hardware Wallets and to me it looks like it is becoming an actual luxury to own one these days.  Particularly B S Wallets like current Ledgers.

If you want a really very secure and good hardware wallet, then you have to pay $150-$300 for it and I think that it's not expensive to pay for the security. If you want still good but not so secure hardware wallet, then you can use cheaper options like Trezor Safe 3. Also, Hardware wallets aren't for everyone. If you want to save few bucks in your Bitcoin wallet, then it doesn't worth to pay for hardware wallets but if you want to save lots of money, then they bring you a lot for the value that you pay in these hardware wallets and worth every penny.

At this point does it not make a lot more sense to simply use an old computer or laptop and set it up as an Airgapped Wallet, even for very large Wallets?  It is not only free if you already have an older computer but it does not come with problems such as some thing becoming too old and out dated.  Before, it was a small expense to protect any budget.  Now it is becoming a very fancy device that does not only cost too much but also looks fancy enough to be one of the first probable targets of a 5-Dollar Wrench attack.

Computer definitely comes with problems like becoming too old. Don't get surprised if your computer suddenly stops working if it's very old but there is also a good chance that it will work fine for decades. You should have backups. Also, if anyone chooses between SSD and HDD, AFAIK, HDD is better for cold storage.

[satscraper]

I was looking today at some prices of current generations of popular Hardware Wallets and to me it looks like it is becoming an actual luxury to own one these days.  Particularly B S Wallets like current Ledgers.

At this point does it not make a lot more sense to simply use an old computer or laptop and set it up as an Airgapped Wallet, even for very large Wallets?  It is not only free if you already have an older computer but it does not come with problems such as some thing becoming too old and out dated.  Before, it was a small expense to protect any budget.  Now it is becoming a very fancy device that does not only cost too much but also looks fancy enough to be one of the first probable targets of a 5-Dollar Wrench attack.

My first setup to store BTC was Armory on the old air‑gapped laptop ^{(with all communication such as Wi‑Fi, Ethernet, and Bluetooth disabled)} running LFS OS. It was extremely secure but required a bit complicated workflow for transaction signing and sending. Unfortunately, Armory stalled in its development. Even version 0.97, which was supposed to add support for bc1 addresses, never saw the light of day ^{not to mention Taproot}, so I had to move to hardware wallets. I chose Passport Core and was satisfied with my decision. I bought it in May 2023 when the listed price was about $250, but I paid around $300 since I purchased it from a distributor in the EU. I have never regretted the move. Now it is out of stock but if my memory serves me right the latest price was $199, which I think is quite affordable.

[PrivacyG]

There was a 'one size fits all' solution.  It was Hardware Wallets that did not need to look futuristic with screens bending over the edges and all that B S.  Minimal hardware with a single purpose to serve were the best option AND affordable.  And they came from multiple companies.

Now about older computers running Linux.  I have 20 year old computers that can still handle some of the latest Linux distributions and latest version of Electrum.  Old hardware is definitely not an excuse to who ever wants to set up a safer Wallet.

It would not be a bad thing if these companies continued to support their older devices while releasing newer models.  Although I do not under stand why many of these features would be necessary at all.  The more features the Wallets have, it looks like the less Privacy we have and the more points of failure.  I get why convenience is very tempting but teaching the Hardware Wallet users to accept the temptation of full convenience is in my opinion not the way to teach.

To be honest I never expected even the Hardware Wallet business to tune the consumerism style business conduct to the maximum and basically enforce behavior similar to the Smart phones market.  As in purchase one device and in a few years it already becomes either obsolete or lacks Security.  And then you have a pool of 20 different Hardware Wallets, some with more faulty parts and defects than others, I presume at least one of them will one day have vulnerabilities, some Software Wallets will not detect all models et cetera.

It is a bad practice particularly considering Bitcoin does not need more RAM or specifications to sign a Transaction, it can run even using my 20 year old computers.  If you look at Ledger they had a few Hardware Wallets that became eWaste in only a few years.  And as far as I can remember they were the most luxurious ones.  Yes I can still buy a Trezor One but considering the way this Market seems to work now, no body can guarantee it will still be supported next year.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

To be honest I never expected even the Hardware Wallet business to tune the consumerism style business conduct to the maximum and basically enforce behavior similar to the Smart phones market.  As in purchase one device and in a few years it already becomes either obsolete or lacks Security.

Yeah, funny how that worked out.  On top of the security issues and required updates and whatnot, there's also a problem of 'feature bloat' I'm seeing in some HW wallets, but I'm not going to name names.  But if you've seen some of these companies partnering up with 3rd party companies to offer questionable services to device owners, then you'll know what I'm talking about.

Can't any company just keep things really simple and provide a hardware wallet that performs the functions a typical user would want to do when using one?  I'd say one would be much better off learning how to create their own HW wallet.  From what I've read in this section, it doesn't seem like rocket science and you wouldn't have to put up with a bunch of nonsense that some of these manufacturers dish out.

[zabzob]

Can't any company just keep things really simple and provide a hardware wallet that performs the functions a typical user would want to do when using one?  I'd say one would be much better off learning how to create their own HW wallet.  From what I've read in this section, it doesn't seem like rocket science and you wouldn't have to put up with a bunch of nonsense that some of these manufacturers dish out.

This is where the DIY wallets really shine. Particularly the ones that let you build your wallet entirely from off-the-shelf components not directly related to bitcoin, like Krux and SeedSigner. This way you're buying hardware from companies like Raspberry pie. And the firmware is free and open source, so there's no company involved with a motive to ramp up prices with glitzy marketing crap.

[m2017]

I was looking today at some prices of current generations of popular Hardware Wallets and to me it looks like it is becoming an actual luxury to own one these days.  Particularly B S Wallets like current Ledgers.

Well, why don't HW manufacturers squeeze money out of crypto holders? If a crypto user buys a hardware wallet, that means they can afford to spend a little more-isn't that how the manufacturer thinks?

Take the Foundation Passport, for example- $300 per device ($200 price + $100 shipping). Looking at this, I also start to think that hardware wallets have become a luxury item.

It's good that there are still budget options available, which, if you buy them during promotions, are quite reasonably priced.

At this point does it not make a lot more sense to simply use an old computer or laptop and set it up as an Airgapped Wallet, even for very large Wallets?  It is not only free if you already have an older computer but it does not come with problems such as some thing becoming too old and out dated.  Before, it was a small expense to protect any budget.  Now it is becoming a very fancy device that does not only cost too much but also looks fancy enough to be one of the first probable targets of a 5-Dollar Wrench attack.

PCs are quite bulky compared to HW devices, and in this case, you need to "bother" with settings and preparing the PC for "conversion" into a hardware wallet. It's easier (and more reliable) to buy a ready-made device designed specifically for storing crypto currencies.

Budget HWs look quite simple and inconspicuous. HW manufacturers should consider producing additional cases and enclosures that can be disguised as anything but a hardware wallets. Ideally, if it were possible to customize the appearance of a HW (outer plastic casing for camouflage), this feature wouldn't be expensive. I'm not sure it will protect against intruders a "5-Dollar Wrench attack", but at least it will protect against unwanted "looks".

[satscraper]

It was Hardware Wallets that did not need to look futuristic with screens bending over the edges

I think you're referring to Passport Prime, right? I agree, Foundation Devices has tried too hard in this case, which definitely resulted in the higher final product price.

Among all else, there are even more absurd approaches to hardware wallet design, such as the one found in the CORAZON® Titanium line. For instance, the listed price for the CORAZON® Gold Titanium wallet is as much as $1,999.00 ^{and it's sold out}.