Hardware Wallets are becoming a luxury

[PrivacyG]

Can't any company just keep things really simple and provide a hardware wallet that performs the functions a typical user would want to do when using one?  I'd say one would be much better off learning how to create their own HW wallet.  From what I've read in this section, it doesn't seem like rocket science and you wouldn't have to put up with a bunch of nonsense that some of these manufacturers dish out.

They apparently can not keep things simple because then how can they make multi million Dollar deals and plans.

I agree.  One would be better off learning to create their own Hardware Wallet.  You learn, you are having fun, you will know every single piece of Hardware that exists on your Wallet and it will last longer too.

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Well, why don't HW manufacturers squeeze money out of crypto holders? If a crypto user buys a hardware wallet, that means they can afford to spend a little more-isn't that how the manufacturer thinks?

It is a Money oriented plan that will expel all the real Bitcoin owners and bring instead all the Shit Coin users to them.  And Shit Coin fans are many more than real Bitcoin users and they are already used to having to migrate every two weeks, having to sell before a rug is pulled, having to keep upgrading to better Firmware and Hardware because their Shit Coin is starting to become out dated.

I was expecting that they will put more attention to making their Hardware Wallet the best choice for real Bitcoin owners.  This is how the Ledger versus Trezor competition was shaping up in the beginning.  Now you see Ledger being advertised by rappers.  This is what really matters these days.

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I think you're referring to Passport Prime, right? I agree, Foundation Devices has tried too hard in this case, which definitely resulted in the higher final product price.

I am not too aware of the latest Hardware changes in Prime but I presume it will be able to do what Core was able to do as well.  I was a fan of their Core design particularly because it looked exactly like a classic phone.  It was different in this aspect and I am guessing they have spent a lot of time and Money on shaping it.

The new one I am not a fan of unfortunately.  Their newest, cooler Core designs were already starting to stick out.  Prime will stick out like a sore thumb because it does not even look like an older Smart phone.  It looks like the kind of phone you would expect a Secret Service agent to pull out of their pocket.

[Flinchbuster]

I was looking today at some prices of current generations of popular Hardware Wallets and to me it looks like it is becoming an actual luxury to own one these days.  Particularly B S Wallets like current Ledgers.

At this point does it not make a lot more sense to simply use an old computer or laptop and set it up as an Airgapped Wallet, even for very large Wallets?  It is not only free if you already have an older computer but it does not come with problems such as some thing becoming too old and out dated.  Before, it was a small expense to protect any budget.  Now it is becoming a very fancy device that does not only cost too much but also looks fancy enough to be one of the first probable targets of a 5-Dollar Wrench attack.

I see your point, I do agree with you that air-gapped is better than hardware wallet in terms of long term storage. But hardware wallet are just more convenient, and I mean you have to spend on something as valuable as an hardware wallet that safeguards your resources so people don’t mind.

So I think it’s a matter of long term security over convenience and beginners tend to tilt towards hardware Wallet.

[zabzob]

I do agree with you that air-gapped is better than hardware wallet in terms of long term storage.

There are air-gapped hardware wallets...

[dkbit98]

to me it looks like it is becoming an actual luxury to own one these days.

I don't know since when did $50 to $200 become a luxury, maybe 50 or 100 years ago
I wouldn't spend a single sat for stupid ledger crap, but with Black Friday deal you can literally purchase very good Trezor wallet for bellow $50.
People are spending much more money on stupid things all the time, and they throw them away in few years.

[LTU_btc]

I don't know since when did $50 to $200 become a luxury, maybe 50 or 100 years ago
I wouldn't spend a single sat for stupid ledger crap, but with Black Friday deal you can literally purchase very good Trezor wallet for bellow $50.
People are spending much more money on stupid things all the time, and they throw them away in few years.

$200 isn't a luxury, but it's expensive for a niche thing, especially if you don't need all these features like Bluetooth or touch screen.
But I agree withyour point, you still can get hardware wallet for a good price. I bought my first wallet maybe 7 or 8 years ago for maybe $50 on Black Friday. Regular price of it was probably something like $80. So, not much different from current Trezero Safe 3 price with discount or not.

Can't any company just keep things really simple and provide a hardware wallet that performs the functions a typical user would want to do when using one?  I'd say one would be much better off learning how to create their own HW wallet.  From what I've read in this section, it doesn't seem like rocket science and you wouldn't have to put up with a bunch of nonsense that some of these manufacturers dish out.

No, they can't. It's not how business works. Yes, they can make basic,cheap hardware wallet that will work for 10, 20 years or even more. But then people won't have any reason to buy new hardware wallet after few years. And then company won't be able to milk the cow.
HW wallet companies are just following what other companies to - from phones to TV's, fridges and even cars. Things now aren't made to be reliable for long time.

[aoluain]

Personally I would prefer a HW over an air-gapped computer, way more discrete,
way more transportable.

I would in the future and have never in the past spent much on Ledgers or Trezors,
always the entry level model's which do exactly as I need.

Current Black Friday deals on Trezor Safe 3 > https://trezor.io/trezor-safe-3

and from what I see Trezor regularly have deals on offer.

[satscraper]

to me it looks like it is becoming an actual luxury to own one these days.

I don't know since when did $50 to $200 become a luxury, maybe 50 or 100 years ago
I wouldn't spend a single sat for stupid ledger crap, but with Black Friday deal you can literally purchase very good Trezor wallet for bellow $50.
People are spending much more money on stupid things all the time, and they throw them away in few years.

Agreed. For me  wallet priced at $200–$300 is not a luxury if its quality ^{including design} justifies the price.

As for stupid purchases, sometimes, after looking over the things I’ve acquired ^{like dozens of HDDs, memory modules, video cards, and even oculus headset} I wonder what on earth I bought all this garbage for. No answer ever comes...

[The Cryptovator]

From which angle do you think buying a hardware wallet looks like a luxury? It's to secure your funds; this isn't any luxury gadget at all. Who actually needs a hardware wallet? Whoever only has a small amount that could be stored in a non-custodial wallet really doesn't need a hardware wallet. For holding and storing a hundred dollars, I will prefer only a noncustodial wallet. And if you want to store a couple of thousand dollars, then buying a hardware wallet won't be a luxury choice anyway; it's necessary. You can use your old device for an air-gapped wallet, but I would not prefer such a setup for a big amount. At least I won't take the risk; rather, I will invest to buy a hardware wallet.

Personally I would prefer a HW over an air-gapped computer, way more discrete,
way more transportable.

I would in the future and have never in the past spent much on Ledgers or Trezors,
always the entry level model's which do exactly as I need.

I really don't prefer Ledger anyway due to recent battery issues, and they already have a couple of controversies. A hardware wallet isn't just for a short time; we need it for a long time since every day we can't buy a wallet. Also Ledger is closed source, whereas Trezor is open source. So I will prefer the Trezor wallet that doesn't need a battery, and open source made it more secure. We all just need to secure our wallet seed in safe places.

[satscraper]

I think you're referring to Passport Prime, right? I agree, Foundation Devices has tried too hard in this case, which definitely resulted in the higher final product price.

I am not too aware of the latest Hardware changes in Prime but I presume it will be able to do what Core was able to do as well.  

Yeah, it is presumed to do everything Core is capable of doing.

What I don’t like about Prime is not the price, but its non-removable battery and its extra features ^{such as 2FA , dedicated storage space, even if encrypted, etc.} that have nothing to do with wallet itself. They created the stuff like “Swiss‑army‑knife”-gizmo instead of focusing on making the perfect wallet. They insist that it runs on their newly, developed, from scratch OS, but again, it should be time‑tested before being taken seriously.

[Crypt0Gore]

If people can't save up $150 to $200 up for hardware wallet they shouldn't be investing in Bitcoin or crypto, because there is no excuse that people can't afford a hardware wallet but they can afford to DCA into Bitcoin, can someone who DCA $200 into Bitcoin and stop makes reasonable amount of money? I don't think so.

Safety first, and that safety comes with a prize, go the best way and neutralise stupid mistakes and troubles, there are still many people in crypto space that haven't lost their bitcoin since they purchased in the past years, they aren't gods, they simply follow the best way to secure their Bitcoin.

Do not try to cheat out on hardware wallets, it is like building a PC and spending most money on CPU and GPU and when it is time to buy PSU you went for the cheap one, you have forgotten that those expensive CPU and GPU will rely on a trusty PSU, you can't buy expensive assets and keep them using cheap ways.

[Meuserna]

If people can't save up $150 to $200 up for hardware wallet they shouldn't be investing in Bitcoin or crypto

The Trezor Safe 3 has been on sale for $47 and it'll do the job well. These devices are only expensive for gadget guys who get caught up in chasing specs instead of security.

[m2017]

If people can't save up $150 to $200 up for hardware wallet they shouldn't be investing in Bitcoin or crypto, because there is no excuse that people can't afford a hardware wallet but they can afford to DCA into Bitcoin, can someone who DCA $200 into Bitcoin and stop makes reasonable amount of money? I don't think so.

I don't think it's worth spending $150-200 on a  hardware wallet when you can find one on the market for half the price without sacrificing reliability and security (and even cheaper with discounts). However, I agree with you that BTC-investors should be able to allocate funds for a HW device for their own peace of mind and to ensure the safety of their assets in the years to come. This is in their best interests.

I wouldn't go into detail about the options for securing a wallet on a separate PC, as this requires certain skills and knowledge, while a hardware wallet remains the simplest and cheapest solution available to every user.

Safety first, and that safety comes with a prize, go the best way and neutralise stupid mistakes and troubles, there are still many people in crypto space that haven't lost their bitcoin since they purchased in the past years, they aren't gods, they simply follow the best way to secure their Bitcoin.

This is also true, because if you don't ensure the safe storage of invested assets, then the point of investing is simply lost if there remains a risk of losing assets.

Do not try to cheat out on hardware wallets, it is like building a PC and spending most money on CPU and GPU and when it is time to buy PSU you went for the cheap one, you have forgotten that those expensive CPU and GPU will rely on a trusty PSU, you can't buy expensive assets and keep them using cheap ways. [/b]

In fact, the analogy is clear and relevant.

Investments aren't something you should try to save on.

[Rikafip]

I don't think it's worth spending $150-200 on a  hardware wallet when you can find one on the market for half the price without sacrificing reliability and security (and even cheaper with discounts).

Its not only about security and reliability, its also about the ease of use.

Some of the more expensive models have bigger screens which makes them much more convenient to use, and that can be very helpful if you are using hardware wallet often.

[PrivacyG]

If people can't save up $150 to $200 up for hardware wallet they shouldn't be investing in Bitcoin or crypto, because there is no excuse that people can't afford a hardware wallet but they can afford to DCA into Bitcoin, can someone who DCA $200 into Bitcoin and stop makes reasonable amount of money? I don't think so.

I do not agree with you.  Only because they are investing in Bitcoin it does not mean they should have to save up hundreds of Dollars to keep their Bitcoin in a Secure place.  If I follow your way of thinking and I should have to save up 150 to 200 Dollars for a Hardware Wallet then I should also save up 999 Dollars if Trezor decides that all their current and past models become obsolete by 2027 and their newest model will be that much.

I understand the idea of not cheaping out on Security but I do feel like that is not the reason they are priced this high and these companies are pushing for a way too 'luxury', 'premium' feel that costs way more than they should for no real sense.  So many Bitcoiners are using Electrum and Bitcoin Core and none of these two look like they have the best User Interface, they are actually as simple as they can be and what matters is that they WORK.

Back when Ledger was a company people here liked, they had the newest Nano X release and immediately after that the first problems came with it.  I do not need to feel like I am handling the nuclear case of the United States President when I am using my Bitcoin.  Nor do I need it to be brushed steel, titanium, curved glass and all the other marketing B S.  I want a simple device that only gets the thing done.  And I doubt it HAS to cost 150 Dollars to offer a high level of Security.  I believe a lot of people pay this much exactly for the reason you mention, they do not want to cheap out on Security, so the company simply continues to sell ridiculously priced 'premium' Hardware Wallets only because people adopt this way of thinking.

[Rikafip]

I want a simple device that only gets the thing done.  And I doubt it HAS to cost 150 Dollars to offer a high level of Security. 

But it doesn't cost that much. Up until few days ago you could have bought one of those simple devices for measly $50 dollars.

I understand the idea of not cheaping out on Security but I do feel like that is not the reason they are priced this high and these companies are pushing for a way too 'luxury', 'premium' feel that costs way more than they should for no real sense.

Premium devices never bring the best value for money, and I see no reason hardware wallets should be any different in that regard. I see no problem with Trezor asking for 250 euros for their top of the line hardware wallet. In the grand scheme of things, that’s still peanuts.

[Meuserna]

Why are a few of you arguing about $200 devices when hardware wallets can be bought for $50?

$50.

You can even buy a new Trezor One for $19 and it'll do the job well.

Over the past 5 years, we've seen the market for hardware wallets change. It used to be about security. These days, it's about manufacturers shoveling out spec-bumps and gadget guys chasing specs they don't even understand because they prioritize cool-factor and online forum street-cred.

C'mon now. We're seeing dudes argue over secure element chip versions, as if computer scientists with state of the art labs are going to come busting through your door. That's silly. The attacker will be some goon with a wrench who demands you unlock the thing and send him your coins. Actually, it'll be a goon with a gun or a knife, and it won't matter what version of secure element chip your hardware wallet has because he's not a hacker.

Hardware wallets aren't becoming a luxury. Common sense is. You don't have to waste money on the latest gadgets. Yes, do get a hardware wallet, but even an entry level model will do. Take the money you saved by avoiding trendy nonsense, and spend it on home security instead. Even simple stuff like a safe you can bolt down and relatively simple home automation can make a big difference in terms of real security.

[dkbit98]

But it doesn't cost that much. Up until few days ago you could have bought one of those simple devices for measly $50 dollars.

I think price is currently around $55 with current holiday discount on Trezor website.
There are probably better and more expensive devices, but I didn't find any issue with Trezor Safe 3.

Why are a few of you arguing about $200 devices when hardware wallets can be bought for $50?

Hardware wallet can be even cheaper if you find some good discounts, and Satochip cards are another cheap alternative.
For me smartphones with ever rising prices have become a real luxury, and people are literally paying for that to be tracked and monitored 24/7.

[Meuserna]

But it doesn't cost that much. Up until few days ago you could have bought one of those simple devices for measly $50 dollars.

I think price is currently around $55 with current holiday discount on Trezor website.
There are probably better and more expensive devices, but I didn't find any issue with Trezor Safe 3.

Why are a few of you arguing about $200 devices when hardware wallets can be bought for $50?

Hardware wallet can be even cheaper if you find some good discounts, and Satochip cards are another cheap alternative.
For me smartphones with ever rising prices have become a real luxury, and people are literally paying for that to be tracked and monitored 24/7.

Absolutely. A Trezor Model One costs $19 and it'll do the job well. For incredibly advanced DIY, hardware to run Krux costs less than $40.

And since you mentioned smartphones, you're right and we're seeing the same thing happening with hardware wallets. People are upgrading for stuff they don't need. It's becoming about the gadgets instead of being about the ability to sign transactions without exposing your keys to the internet. That's the point of a hardware wallet.

[FinneysTrueVision]

If you think hardware wallets are expensive today, the original Trezor cost between 1 and 3 BTC. Even at Bitcoin’s price back then, the cost in USD was still hundreds of dollars. Build quality has improved a lot from when Ledgers were basically just a fancy USB stick. Current prices seem reasonable for what you’re getting.

If you want to save money, there will always be budget friendly options like slightly older Trezor models or devices like Blockstream Jade and BitBox.

[Rikafip]

I think price is currently around $55 with current holiday discount on Trezor website.

Still dirt cheap, especially considering what is being protected.

If you think hardware wallets are expensive today, the original Trezor cost between 1 and 3 BTC. Even at Bitcoin’s price back then, the cost in USD was still hundreds of dollars.

It could be one of the reason why Ledger became so popular as back in 2017 when I bought mine, it was less than $100 (iirc).