G-Knot Hardware Wallet

[dkbit98]

I just saw a new hardware wallet G-Knot being released, and from my understanding it is not using any passwords and seed phrases.

Biometrics is taking over and it is slowly spreading to more hardware wallets, and this one is scanning your blood vessels and it requires live blood flow to unlock 
It's interesting they are using the same patented finger vein scanner used for security at Geneva headquarters UN agency.
G-Knot is not only using biometrics, it also uses some kind patent-pending P2N2 AI engine...

It looks like Bitcoin and other coins will be supported, and they are releasing their own token GKNT 
I am 100% sure this device is going to have closed source code, and presale price is around $299.

I am still investigating and reading about G-Knot, but I would suggest everyone to stay away from this device.


https://www.g-knot.io/our-hardware-wallet
https://www.g-knot.io/our-technology

[Charles-Tim]

I still prefer the seed phrase (+passphrase if included) to access my coins instead. There is nothing better than that for me, they do not need to complicate what is simple.


Even as I have experimented shamir secret sharing since some years ago, I still did not use it. I only prefer just the seed phrase wallet and I use the passphrase to extend it.

[Mia Chloe]

~snip

Well well well, I can see hardware wallets are probably trending gradually to some sort of futuristic security. Yeah it's good but arguably it's not necessary. This particular kind of gadget depends solely on personal choice and interests and not really a fight for security because to me  password protected hardware wallet is near impossible to brute force.

Personally I'm of the opinion that some things should remain the old way like in the case of this wallet just like this forum has remained the old way for years now.

[Meuserna]

I still prefer the seed phrase (+passphrase if included) to access my coins instead. There is nothing better than that for me, they do not need to complicate what is simple.

This. Always this.

Seed words (and passphrase characters) represent numbers, which are converted to binary and used as entropy to generate the wallet. It's math. And it's perfect.

By having a backup of the seed phrase (and passphrase) I've got a backup of everything. If the hardware wallet dies? Who cares. I get a new one and enter my seed phrase (and passphrase). Easy peasy. My wallet is restored and my coins are found. No worries.

And, even better, by doing it this way, you can leave everything to somebody in your will.

I wouldn't use a seedless wallet even if they paid me to.

[Polkat]

It's a very strange idea to create a seed phrase based on the uniqueness of a fingerprint. It turns out that if you touch something in a public place and leave your fingerprints on it, you risk someone gaining access to your coins.

[SFR10]

I just saw a new hardware wallet G-Knot being released, and from my understanding it is not using any passwords and seed phrases.

Biometrics is taking over and it is slowly spreading to more hardware wallets, and this one is scanning your blood vessels and it requires live blood flow to unlock 

It's always nice to see new HW manufacturers trying to come up with the next best thing in security ^{[regardless of it being a failure or not]}, but they should at least offer what we consider as the gold standard ^{[e.g., seed phrase + etc...]} in this field, as another option in their products.
^{- FWIW, I'd never use a product that requires me only to use their HW & companion app.}

[satscraper]

~

I read some news about this wallet a few days ago, but after learning that it is centered around  GKNT token ^{and seems to have no Bitcoin support} I immediately got it off my plate.

As for biometrics, yeah, it uses finger vein scanning for seed creation and further authentication, but I don’t like relying on any biometrics in HW because they can fail. ^{I’ve had that experience with my laptop}.

[Pmalek]

Generating a wallet by scanning your finger vein means you are limited to only use such devices in the future. If they don't allow users to export private keys or a seed, you are stuck with their hardware wallet. If they disappear tomorrow, you will have to get one that works and generates secrets from your finger vein in an identical way. That's just a bad idea.   

I read some news about this wallet a few days ago, but after learning that it is centered around  GKNT token ^{and seems to have no Bitcoin support} I immediately got it off my plate.

The G-Knot website claims that the hardware device will support popular blockchains like Bitcoin, Ethereum, XRP, Binance Chain, and others. I doubt they would create a hardware wallet that doesn't work with Bitcoin.

[satscraper]

Generating a wallet by scanning your finger vein means you are limited to only use such devices in the future. If they don't allow users to export private keys or a seed, you are stuck with their hardware wallet. If they disappear tomorrow, you will have to get one that works and generates secrets from your finger vein in an identical way. That's just a bad idea.   

Agreed. If they intend to not provide an alternative backup for recovery, the idea isn't just bad, it's crazy in fact.

P.S. I don't know why, but something inside me tells me that it may turn out to be a scam project. No real prototype shown, no documentation at all, presale...

website claims that the hardware device will support popular blockchains like Bitcoin, Ethereum, XRP, Binance Chain, and others. I doubt they would create a hardware wallet that doesn't work with Bitcoin.

I don't like the general concept of this fancy-schmancy gizmo, so I don't care whether it's supposed to support BTC or not.

[Pmalek]

P.S. I don't know why, but something inside me tells me that it may turn out to be a scam project. No real prototype shown, no documentation at all, presale...

The hardware wallet reminds me of a tape measure. Maybe that's where they got the design from.
The company claims to be selling or plans to sell other biometric devices, but I couldn't find more information about those from their website. The About Us page shows a few interesting gadgets, but the "learn more" button is unclickable. They show images of log-on scanners for PCs, smart ID cards, vein-lock doors, etc. No idea if they have anything tangible at this point or not.

[satscraper]

They show images of log-on scanners for PCs, smart ID cards, vein-lock doors, etc. No idea if they have anything tangible at this point or not.

Looks like I have found where it’s all coming from. G‑Knot appears to be "the exclusive licensee of Seoul‑based eTunnel Inc.". The latter specializes in the development of finger vein authentication techniques and offers a range of relevant biometric products including ETUNNEL‑CW‑100V wallet which is essentially the same as G‑Knot wallet.

Relevant specs:

This device is built around  ARM Cortex‑H7 MCU, and it appears to lack SE.


Given above specs that $299 presale price from G‑Knott feels like a joke.

[dkbit98]

I still prefer the seed phrase (+passphrase if included) to access my coins instead. There is nothing better than that for me, they do not need to complicate what is simple.

Same as me, but I have to say that majority of people is obviously not ready for self-custody, so I can understand why someone would use G-Knot.
Believe it or not we still have people who use one password for everything 

I wouldn't use a seedless wallet even if they paid me to.

Current seedless wallets are all crap, but I am not against if someone invents some better and more secure option compared to standard 12-24 seed words we used today.

It's always nice to see new HW manufacturers trying to come up with the next best thing in security ^{[regardless of it being a failure or not]}, but they should at least offer what we consider as the gold standard ^{[e.g., seed phrase + etc...]} in this field, as another option in their products.

I think we need to have special category for seedless wallets, and it's funny that all of them are closed source...

Looks like I have found where it’s all coming from. G‑Knot appears to be "the exclusive licensee of Seoul‑based eTunnel Inc.". The latter specializes in the development of finger vein authentication techniques and offers a range of relevant biometric products including ETUNNEL‑CW‑100V wallet which is essentially the same as G‑Knot wallet.

It's nice to see devices details, and this product even has G-Know word printed on itself
I guess owner is in big problem if he cuts or burned his finger, that is not so uncommon.

[satscraper]

I guess owner is in big problem if he cuts or burned his finger, that is not so uncommon.

Agreed, that’s why I said above that this wallet should have an alternative backup scheme in case of severe finger damage. Even if other fingers are used as backups, it’s still possible that all fingers on the hand could be damaged to such extent that the wallet’s sensors would no longer recognize the vein patterns needed to authorize the owner.

[AakZaki]

Judging from its heavy shape, I have no interest in buying it. I was worried that if it fell immediately it broke and became several parts, considering the shape that has many cleavages.
At first glance it does look futuristic, but a design like this actually raises doubts in terms of physical durability especially for long term use.

The number of connection lines and cleavages in the body has the potential to be a weak point if the device is dropped or hit hard. In addition the dimensions that seem large and heavy make it less practical to carry around, so from my point of view, the design emphasizes aesthetics rather than functional and durability aspects.

[satscraper]

In addition the dimensions that seem large and heavy make it less practical to carry around,

They probably chose dimensions ^{like 67(W) × 40(L) × 65.3(H)} assuming that some people might try to set up their wallets using the body part other than a finger.

BTW, that particular body part is less vulnerable to cuts or burns ^{though everything may happen}  , which at least eliminates one of the concerns raised earlier in this thread.

[NeuroticFish]

BTW, that particular body part is less vulnerable to cuts or burns ^{though everything may happen}  , which at least eliminates one of the concerns raised earlier in this thread.

Having a proper backup for your seed is a must. Electronic hardware has limited lifetime. People too have limited lifetime and may want to give a chance to their kids access those coins.
A hardware wallet with no passphrase and which checks if the owner is alive is a bold direction, but imho it's not what most want.
I see only two use cases for such a HW:
1. As the "spend money" HW, while the bulk stays on a different HW. But why two HW, really?
2. As part of a (certain) multisig setup.

So overall I agree with the original post. Unless you know very well what you are going to do with this device and you understand properly the risks, you better avoid it.

[Yamane_Keto]

A hardware wallet with no passphrase and which checks if the owner is alive is a bold direction, but imho it's not what most want.
I see only two use cases for such a HW:

I would like to know the quality of Biometrics in reducing the probability of success of presentation attack detection (PAD). Some research has published a success rate of 86% for such attacks. G-Knot wallets will be a target for these attacks, as you can recover the wallet from another device using finger veins.

[bitmover]

I still prefer the seed phrase (+passphrase if included) to access my coins instead. There is nothing better than that for me, they do not need to complicate what is simple.

And it is also widely accepted.

You can recover your coins easily with basically any wallet using a seed phrase.
What about biometrics or other methods? You might become forced to use this wallet or similar ones to recover coins...

[NeuroticFish]

A hardware wallet with no passphrase and which checks if the owner is alive is a bold direction, but imho it's not what most want.
I see only two use cases for such a HW:

I would like to know the quality of Biometrics in reducing the probability of success of presentation attack detection (PAD). Some research has published a success rate of 86% for such attacks. G-Knot wallets will be a target for these attacks, as you can recover the wallet from another device using finger veins.

Interesting point, although checking for actual blood flow is already a PAD. I don't know if they'll do more. And they will most probably not tell about their limitations

And it has just occurred to me that this device may also lack the option for plausible deniability, which, in many cases, could be important too.
Yes, it's mostly unrelated to your post, although, it could be useful also as a line of defense if PAD fails.