Bitcoin and Michael Saylor fud, it is almost Michael Sellor

[Alex077]

Michael Saylor's Strategy signals potential bitcoin sale to fund dividends obligations

I’ll add a little more to this story...
And honestly, the only thing you can really add here is that Saylor used to say he would never sell Bitcoin.

Basically, the snake oil salesman said blah, blah, blah again. You guys aren't paying attention to this, but this isn't the first or even the second time he's contradicted one of the principles he established as set in stone. The possibility of selling Bitcoin isn't new—Phong Lee already mentioned it late last year—but the difference now is that the reason would be to pay dividends, not because of some supposed mathematical rationale...

Well, I think you’re being a bit too categorical here. Michael Saylor is far from some kind of fraud or charlatan - he’s actually a pretty smart guy. At the same time there’s definitely a nuance here- he loves risk and often goes all-in, and that’s probably his biggest weakness. He already lost billions during the dot-com bubble, so it’s fair to say there are some similarities with the current situation.
And at the same time, I think his strategy is fairly well thought out and relatively resilient. And finally, for now he hasn’t sold anything yet, and nobody really knows whether he ever will. So far it was just a statement or a hypothetical scenario, maybe. But I do agree with you on one thing - the signal itself definitely wasn’t a very positive one.

[Free Market Capitalist]

Well, I think you’re being a bit too categorical here.

So, what? Wasn't Saylor categorical when he said "you never sell your Bitcoin"?

Michael Saylor is far from some kind of fraud or charlatan -

Technically speaking, he isn't a fraud, but he has been charged with fraud twice and had to pay $8 million in 2001 to avoid jail time, and then $40 million in 2024 to settle a tax fraud lawsuit.

he’s actually a pretty smart guy.

Agreed.

At the same time there’s definitely a nuance here- he loves risk and often goes all-in, and that’s probably his biggest weakness. He already lost billions during the dot-com bubble, so it’s fair to say there are some similarities with the current situation.

Yes, actually there are a lot of similarities but you are wrong in just saying that "he" lost billions. A lot of MSTR investors lost a lot of money as well.

And finally, for now he hasn’t sold anything yet, and nobody really knows whether he ever will. .

False. Practically every time I jump into a thread about Saylor and Strategy, I see some obvious falsehood. But you guys keep spreading falsehoods, and I'll keep debunking them.

MicroStrategy just did what CEO Michael Saylor once said would never happen: it sold bitcoin

[Ishicryptic]

@Dogedegen. If Microstrategy will do their first significant sale of bitcoin from their treasury, I reckon I have a new name for Michael Saylor heheeh. Instead of calling him Michael the Saylormoon, we should begin calling him Michael Sellor heheheeheh!

I hope that you didn't expect that Michael Saylor, would hold his Bitcoin indefinitely, he is a businessman and Strategy, is a business from any perspective that you choose to look at it and you should expect that sooner or later he will have to sell. My concern has always been whether he will decide to dump all his Bitcoin on the market or not because it's effect will hit the market in a super negative way but whether he will offload some chunk of Bitcoin wouldn't surprise me at all. If he sell the only difference would be that he has broken his promise of not to sell but the market will always recover after sometime so anytime he feels compelled to sell let him go ahead.

[bbc.reporter]

@Dogedegen. If Microstrategy will do their first significant sale of bitcoin from their treasury, I reckon I have a new name for Michael Saylor heheeh. Instead of calling him Michael the Saylormoon, we should begin calling him Michael Sellor heheheeheh!

I hope that you didn't expect that Michael Saylor, would hold his Bitcoin indefinitely, he is a businessman and Strategy, is a business from any perspective that you choose to look at it and you should expect that sooner or later he will have to sell. My concern has always been whether he will decide to dump all his Bitcoin on the market or not because it's effect will hit the market in a super negative way but whether he will offload some chunk of Bitcoin wouldn't surprise me at all. If he sell the only difference would be that he has broken his promise of not to sell but the market will always recover after sometime so anytime he feels compelled to sell let him go ahead.

This is a very much headshaking post you have made because you do not understand heheheh. Microstrategy will certainly hold most of the bitcoin investments that he has made. They will sell only very little bitcoin to pay for dividends of STRC holders and Microstrategy will certainly buy more bitcoin than they have sold. 

Michael Sellor will not sell all of the bitcoin in Microstrategy's treasury.

[Dave1]

@Dogedegen. If Microstrategy will do their first significant sale of bitcoin from their treasury, I reckon I have a new name for Michael Saylor heheeh. Instead of calling him Michael the Saylormoon, we should begin calling him Michael Sellor heheheeheh!

I hope that you didn't expect that Michael Saylor, would hold his Bitcoin indefinitely, he is a businessman and Strategy, is a business from any perspective that you choose to look at it and you should expect that sooner or later he will have to sell. My concern has always been whether he will decide to dump all his Bitcoin on the market or not because it's effect will hit the market in a super negative way but whether he will offload some chunk of Bitcoin wouldn't surprise me at all. If he sell the only difference would be that he has broken his promise of not to sell but the market will always recover after sometime so anytime he feels compelled to sell let him go ahead.

This is a very much headshaking post you have made because you do not understand heheheh. Microstrategy will certainly hold most of the bitcoin investments that he has made. They will sell only very little bitcoin to pay for dividends of STRC holders and Microstrategy will certainly buy more bitcoin than they have sold. 

Michael Sellor will not sell all of the bitcoin in Microstrategy's treasury.

That is true, and if you look at it, they are just selling a portion, Lol. It's not that they are going to sell all their stash and then not going to pay. They need to sell because they have to pay dividends to their holders. And they have profited billions already, so it's profit that they are going to sell.

And once they done with it, they are going to buy it back rinse and repeat.

The thing is that those FUD magnified everything what Bitcoin's poster said  and his company as if it will be the end of it. But as we can see, the price didn't move that much and so this FUD is a a failure.

[Free Market Capitalist]

This is a very much headshaking post you have made because you do not understand heheheh. Microstrategy will certainly hold most of the bitcoin investments that he has made. They will sell only very little bitcoin to pay for dividends of STRC holders and Microstrategy will certainly buy more bitcoin than they have sold.  

Michael Sellor will not sell all of the bitcoin in Microstrategy's treasury.

That is true, and if you look at it, they are just selling a portion, Lol. It's not that they are going to sell all their stash and then not going to pay. They need to sell because they have to pay dividends to their holders. And they have profited billions already, so it's profit that they are going to sell.

And once they done with it, they are going to buy it back rinse and repeat.

That is, if he doesn't change his mind again, because he has changed his mind so often on fundamental issues that if he does it again, it wouldn't be surprising. Now he says he would do it when the Bitcoin stash is on profit (until recently, he wouldn't have been able to) and to pay dividends. But once that door is open, you can't be sure he won't sell at a loss to raise cash, or that instead of paying dividends, he won't come up with some other idea.

He did something similar with the USD reserve. First, he became famous for that line, “those who save in fiat, we call them poor,” which spawned memes and songs. Then he diluted MSTR shareholders to create a USD savings reserve, which he said was intended to cover dividends. But in a later interview, he said it could be used for other purposes.

So, it’s clear he’s going to do whatever he wants, even if it contradicts a seemingly unshakable motto he stated yesterday, and a lot of people will continue to believe him because he’s such a good salesman (and because they don’t stop to analyze things even a little bit).

[Alex077]

Well, I think you’re being a bit too categorical here.

False. Practically every time I jump into a thread about Saylor and Strategy, I see some obvious falsehood. But you guys keep spreading falsehoods, and I'll keep debunking them.

MicroStrategy just did what CEO Michael Saylor once said would never happen: it sold bitcoin

  I think you may have missed the date - the article is from December 2022. At that time he actually sold 704 Bitcoin for tax-related reasons. So maybe you just mean there’s already been one precedent of a sale in the past? But at least this isn’t some new event happening right now.

For now Michael Saylor attempted to clarify  his stance after recent remarks raised concerns that the company could at some point start selling part of its Bitcoin reserves.
The co-founder of Strategy said his famous phrase “never sell your Bitcoin” isn’t actually the most accurate way to describe the company’s real policy...
According to him, the more precise idea is that Strategy should never become just a bitcoin seller. In other words, in this situation limited selling could still support a much bigger accumulation bitcoin strategy. Basically, the company could theoretically sell small amounts while continuing to grow its overall bitcoin reserves. In short it was something like selling one bitcoin in order to buy ten more later.

I’m not sure whether Saylor is simply trying to talk his way out of an uncomfortable situation here, or if this was genuinely the plan from the beginning. But so far there have been no actual sales of their accumulated Bitcoin, and the chances of that happening anytime soon still seem pretty low.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhtYB48ktDY

[tbct_mt2]

For now Michael Saylor attempted to clarify  his stance after recent remarks raised concerns that the company could at some point start selling part of its Bitcoin reserves.
The co-founder of Strategy said his famous phrase “never sell your Bitcoin” isn’t actually the most accurate way to describe the company’s real policy...

If we are experienced in markets that have market manipulations, not only in Bitcoin market, we can easily realize that such sayings from Michael Saylor are like click bait. He knows that he has many followers and any words, sentences he says about Bitcoin will be spread over social media and amplified considerably. He knew that but he did whatever he can to keep the effects prolonging until he realized that his leveraging game becomes too risky. When people in the community realized this fact, analyzed and discussed about it more than past years, Saylor had to change his sayings.

Hence we witnessed such clarifications from Saylor, again believing in his clarifications or not, it's not too difficult to have yours.

Remember that Sam Bankman-Fried used to say FTX exchange is safe before its collapse and bankruptcy. Michael Saylor will say the same before a death spiral of Strategy if it happens in the future.

[Dogedegen]

@Dogedegen. If Microstrategy will do their first significant sale of bitcoin from their treasury, I reckon I have a new name for Michael Saylor heheeh. Instead of calling him Michael the Saylormoon, we should begin calling him Michael Sellor heheheeheh!

That is quite a nickname.  

Basically, the snake oil salesman said blah, blah, blah again.

Really, you had to take it this far? Out of all the people running around and doing things in this space, you are trying to label him the same way as the likes of Roger Ver or Vitalik?

That is, if he doesn't change his mind again, because he has changed his mind so often on fundamental issues that if he does it again, it wouldn't be surprising. Now he says he would do it when the Bitcoin stash is on profit (until recently, he wouldn't have been able to) and to pay dividends. But once that door is open, you can't be sure he won't sell at a loss to raise cash, or that instead of paying dividends, he won't come up with some other idea.

While we can agree on the riskiness of the current operation, I can not believe when you write these things. The basic of business administration or management theory states that businesses must be agile and adapt as soon as possible. If they consider what they have been doing to be wrong and try to adapt, you want to make it seem like they are being bad people.

What should they do in your view if they believe that their current strategy or decisions are no no longer correct? Should they persist in the error even though they now believe otherwise so that do not publicly look like they have changed their mind? What should they do? Answer this question precisely please.

[bbc.reporter]

This is a very much headshaking post you have made because you do not understand heheheh. Microstrategy will certainly hold most of the bitcoin investments that he has made. They will sell only very little bitcoin to pay for dividends of STRC holders and Microstrategy will certainly buy more bitcoin than they have sold.  

Michael Sellor will not sell all of the bitcoin in Microstrategy's treasury.

That is true, and if you look at it, they are just selling a portion, Lol. It's not that they are going to sell all their stash and then not going to pay. They need to sell because they have to pay dividends to their holders. And they have profited billions already, so it's profit that they are going to sell.

And once they done with it, they are going to buy it back rinse and repeat.

That is, if he doesn't change his mind again, because he has changed his mind so often on fundamental issues that if he does it again, it wouldn't be surprising. Now he says he would do it when the Bitcoin stash is on profit (until recently, he wouldn't have been able to) and to pay dividends. But once that door is open, you can't be sure he won't sell at a loss to raise cash, or that instead of paying dividends, he won't come up with some other idea.

He did something similar with the USD reserve. First, he became famous for that line, “those who save in fiat, we call them poor,” which spawned memes and songs. Then he diluted MSTR shareholders to create a USD savings reserve, which he said was intended to cover dividends. But in a later interview, he said it could be used for other purposes.

So, it’s clear he’s going to do whatever he wants, even if it contradicts a seemingly unshakable motto he stated yesterday, and a lot of people will continue to believe him because he’s such a good salesman (and because they don’t stop to analyze things even a little bit).

You are an Elmer Fud. You make it appear that Michael the Saylormoon has transformed himself into Michael Sellor and has sold all of the bitcoin from Microstrategy's treasury. These changes are improved refinements on Microstrategy's roadmap for buying more bitcoin!

[bbc.reporter]

News update.

It appears that the day is becoming nearer when we will begin to call Michael the Saylormmoon with a new nickname. If he will continue with the proposal to dump bitcoin from Microstrategy's treasury to repurchase their convertible bonds, his new nickname will be Michael Sellor hehehehehe! I am very much excited for this.



Strategy (MSTR), the world's largest corporate holder of bitcoin, has agreed to repurchase approximately $1.5 billion of its outstanding 0% Convertible Senior Notes due 2029 in privately negotiated transactions with certain noteholders, according to a filing released Friday morning.

The company expects to pay roughly $1.38 billion in cash for the notes, implying a discount to par value.

Strategy said it plans to fund the transaction using existing cash reserves, proceeds from share sales, and potentially bitcoin sales.

Read in full https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2026/05/15/strategy-to-repurchase-usd1-5-billion-of-2029-convertible-bonds-using-cash-or-bitcoin-sales

[Free Market Capitalist]

You are an Elmer Fud. You make it appear that Michael the Saylormoon has transformed himself into Michael Sellor and has sold all of the bitcoin from Microstrategy's treasury.

That's a nice strawman argument right there. But your argument is so weak that it falls apart on its own. If Saylor has been repeating for years, “Never sell your Bitcoin” and similar phrases (just look at the context of “it’s going up forever, Laura”), he doesn’t need to sell ALL his Bitcoin to contradict himself. The mere fact that he’s announcing he’s willing to sell SOME, as he’s doing now, proves that he’s contradicting himself.

Strategy said it plans to fund the transaction using existing cash reserves, proceeds from share sales, and potentially bitcoin sales.[/i]

That is exactly what I was talking about in my previous comment. He has said that he will sell—supposedly only for profit and to pay dividends—and he has shifted from the “never sell your Bitcoin” stance to saying he might sell. Given Saylor’s history of contradicting himself on unyielding principles, it’s clear that he could even sell at a loss or for purposes other than paying dividends.

That is, if he doesn't change his mind again, because he has changed his mind so often on fundamental issues that if he does it again, it wouldn't be surprising. Now he says he would do it when the Bitcoin stash is on profit (until recently, he wouldn't have been able to) and to pay dividends. But once that door is open, you can't be sure he won't sell at a loss to raise cash, or that instead of paying dividends, he won't come up with some other idea.

And it didn't take long—before you know it, he's already saying he's going to sell off assets to buy back the convertible debt.

[Dogedegen]

That's a nice strawman argument right there. But your argument is so weak that it falls apart on its own. If Saylor has been repeating for years, “Never sell your Bitcoin” and similar phrases (just look at the context of “it’s going up forever, Laura”), he doesn’t need to sell ALL his Bitcoin to contradict himself. The mere fact that he’s announcing he’s willing to sell SOME, as he’s doing now, proves that he’s contradicting himself.

No, that is not what it means. Stop spreading misinformation about him just because you are a more senior member of this forum. I have explained it and you ignore it on purpose because you have been proven wrong. I assume higher education has eluded you, but hey Saylor is bad I guess if that makes you happy.

The basic of business administration or management theory states that businesses must be agile and adapt as soon as possible. If they consider what they have been doing to be wrong and try to adapt, you want to make it seem like they are being bad people.

What should they do in your view if they believe that their current strategy or decisions are no no longer correct? Should they persist in the error even though they now believe otherwise so that do not publicly look like they have changed their mind? What should they do? Answer this question precisely please.

What they are doing is correct. There is not a single person here who has not made tens of thousands of mistakes in their lives, and the few that have started businesses have made thousands of errors on the way. Changing your mind with new information and in a new environment is the correct thing to do. Changing your mind after some time has passed is not the same as contradicting yourself. If you can, never sell your Bitcoin. The same lesson remains true.

You are an Elmer Fud. You make it appear that Michael the Saylormoon has transformed himself into Michael Sellor and has sold all of the bitcoin from Microstrategy's treasury. These changes are improved refinements on Microstrategy's roadmap for buying more bitcoin!

You are too bullish, but he is too biased and bearish on it. Both positions are not good, his is worse because it is misinformed FUD by someone who can't accomplish 1 percent of what Saylormoon has achieved so far.  

[Free Market Capitalist]

That's a nice strawman argument right there. But your argument is so weak that it falls apart on its own. If Saylor has been repeating for years, “Never sell your Bitcoin” and similar phrases (just look at the context of “it’s going up forever, Laura”), he doesn’t need to sell ALL his Bitcoin to contradict himself. The mere fact that he’s announcing he’s willing to sell SOME, as he’s doing now, proves that he’s contradicting himself.

No, that is not what it means.

Oh, really? Why? If someone says they’ll NEVER sell Bitcoin and I point out that they’re contradicting themselves when they say they’ll sell SOME Bitcoin, that doesn’t mean I’m saying they’ve sold ALL their Bitcoin, as bbc.reporter claims with his straw man argument.

That’s a simple concept for anyone with even a basic understanding of logic—something you obviously lack.

Stop spreading misinformation about him just because you are a more senior member of this forum. I have explained it and you ignore it on purpose because you have been proven wrong. I assume higher education has eluded you, but hey Saylor is bad I guess if that makes you happy.

I've been ignoring what you say on purpose because all you do is spout nonsense that shows how limited your intellectual capacity is.

[bbc.reporter]

You are an Elmer Fud. You make it appear that Michael the Saylormoon has transformed himself into Michael Sellor and has sold all of the bitcoin from Microstrategy's treasury.

That's a nice strawman argument right there. But your argument is so weak that it falls apart on its own. If Saylor has been repeating for years, “Never sell your Bitcoin” and similar phrases (just look at the context of “it’s going up forever, Laura”), he doesn’t need to sell ALL his Bitcoin to contradict himself. The mere fact that he’s announcing he’s willing to sell SOME, as he’s doing now, proves that he’s contradicting himself.

Strategy said it plans to fund the transaction using existing cash reserves, proceeds from share sales, and potentially bitcoin sales.[/i]

That is exactly what I was talking about in my previous comment. He has said that he will sell—supposedly only for profit and to pay dividends—and he has shifted from the “never sell your Bitcoin” stance to saying he might sell. Given Saylor’s history of contradicting himself on unyielding principles, it’s clear that he could even sell at a loss or for purposes other than paying dividends.

That is, if he doesn't change his mind again, because he has changed his mind so often on fundamental issues that if he does it again, it wouldn't be surprising. Now he says he would do it when the Bitcoin stash is on profit (until recently, he wouldn't have been able to) and to pay dividends. But once that door is open, you can't be sure he won't sell at a loss to raise cash, or that instead of paying dividends, he won't come up with some other idea.

And it didn't take long—before you know it, he's already saying he's going to sell off assets to buy back the convertible debt.

You might be correct. We can begin calling Michael the Saylormoon with his new nickname Michael Sellor after he gives the command to sell some bitcoin from the treasury of Microstrategy hehehe.

However, to declare that he will dump all of the bitcoin from the treasury and cause a big short occurrence is certainly fud.

[Free Market Capitalist]

You might be correct. We can begin calling Michael the Saylormoon with his new nickname Michael Sellor after he gives the command to sell some bitcoin from the treasury of Microstrategy hehehe.

However, to declare that he will dump all of the bitcoin from the treasury and cause a big short occurrence is certainly fud.

Are you fucking stupid or what? I never said that. You said that I said that.

Quote me where I said that he will dump all the Bitcoin or you are just another stupid fuck.

[Alex077]

Completely unexpectedly for almost everyone, especially after all the talk about the planned $1.5 billion debt buyback that’s supposed to happen this Tuesday, Strategy went ahead and bought another 24,869 BTC worth a massive $2.01 billion at an average price of $80,985.
I think, it was a pretty smart move from Michael Saylor to calm shareholders down and shut down all the criticism and rumors about Strategy supposedly abandoning the “never sell your Bitcoin” philosophy.

Now maybe the only thing left is the usual crowd screaming that Saylor is again “buying the top” instead of buying during crashes...

[Dogedegen]

I've been ignoring what you say on purpose because all you do is spout nonsense that shows how limited your intellectual capacity is.

First finish something more than high school then we can talk about the definitions of things. You have been proven wrong, there is no contradiction here but an adaptation of the business decisions in a constantly changing environment which is peak business management and is the recommended way of doing things by every higher institution that deals with business management.

You might be correct. We can begin calling Michael the Saylormoon with his new nickname Michael Sellor after he gives the command to sell some bitcoin from the treasury of Microstrategy hehehe.

However, to declare that he will dump all of the bitcoin from the treasury and cause a big short occurrence is certainly fud.

That is exactly how he makes it sound like since he is exaggerating his FUD, while he has never done anything for Bitcoin. Saylormoon is one of the biggest proponents of Bitcoin and is among its top contributors in recent history, talk about conviction!

Completely unexpectedly for almost everyone, especially after all the talk about the planned $1.5 billion debt buyback that’s supposed to happen this Tuesday, Strategy went ahead and bought another 24,869 BTC worth a massive $2.01 billion at an average price of $80,985.
I think, it was a pretty smart move from Michael Saylor to calm shareholders down and shut down all the criticism and rumors about Strategy supposedly abandoning the “never sell your Bitcoin” philosophy.

Now maybe the only thing left is the usual crowd screaming that Saylor is again “buying the top” instead of buying during crashes...

There is nothing wrong with selling some for the right reasons, and it does not matter what they have said before that is not a contradiction otherwise there is no difference between words such as adaptation and contradiction. They have been clear at every step of the way, as soon as the environment has changed and a possibility of some selling has emerged they have already clearly communicated it. It does not get any more transparent than this, and probably no other company in the world does things this transparently. But you can always find some failed internet warrior to spread FUD, don't worry about that. 

[d5000]

I think the community should relax a bit when it comes to Saylor and MSTR.

They buy Bitcoin, yes, and sometimes they may have a small influence in the market, above all psychologically. Personally I think their influence is exaggerated, I have not measured it but my uneducated guess is that in about half of all cases after they buy the price goes up, and the other 50% it goes down. Maybe 55-45.

But their kind of "adoption" does not really add something to the general adoption process of Bitcoin if the goal is to be a global currency or store of value medium. They only sell complicated derivatives. A large holder is not better than several smaller holders. I'd say smaller ones are much better.

The contribution of Strategy to the adoption process is that they have shown to other companies that Bitcoin can be an interesting treasury asset, and that naysayers were wrong when they said that MSTR would collapse in each bear market.

So I think we should not focus on single buy or sell operations (although I think FMC has a point when he says that there is a contradiction in Saylor's recent behaviour, even if IMO that was completely predictable). We should focus on the broadening of the "Bitcoin as a treasury asset" idea instead. Let's go for a million companies with 1 BTC, instead of one company with a million

[Dogedegen]

I think the community should relax a bit when it comes to Saylor and MSTR.

They buy Bitcoin, yes, and sometimes they may have a small influence in the market, above all psychologically. Personally I think their influence is exaggerated, I have not measured it but my uneducated guess is that in about half of all cases after they buy the price goes up, and the other 50% it goes down. Maybe 55-45.

But their kind of "adoption" does not really add something to the general adoption process of Bitcoin if the goal is to be a global currency or store of value medium. They only sell complicated derivatives. A large holder is not better than several smaller holders. I'd say smaller ones are much better.

The contribution of Strategy to the adoption process is that they have shown to other companies that Bitcoin can be an interesting treasury asset, and that naysayers were wrong when they said that MSTR would collapse in each bear market.

So I think we should not focus on single buy or sell operations (although I think FMC has a point when he says that there is a contradiction in Saylor's recent behaviour, even if IMO that was completely predictable). We should focus on the broadening of the "Bitcoin as a treasury asset" idea instead. Let's go for a million companies with 1 BTC, instead of one company with a million

An adaptation is not a contradiction, everything else is correct. When it comes to contradictions usually we talk about things that are current or don't make sense, you can't just pick any point in time like find something I said 20 years ago and say look you are contradicting yourself now. If you do that, then you are rejecting any learning process in a biased way.

Persisting in error is the real error and contradiction to what a human should be doing, adapting properly is never an error. A business must do what it must do, you can have a personal view that differs from what the business is doing. In this case the example would be that I personally never want to sell Bitcoin or believe that a person should never sell Bitcoin if they can and at the same time I may have a business that must sell Bitcoin. Both is possible and not a contradiction either. Strategy is not owned only by Saylor, so it is not entirely up to him either which even weakens the case against any contradictions further.