Canadian senate hearing on bitcoin

[knight22]

Overall well balanced, mostly informative on how it works, who uses it, why, how, should the government regulate it, how Canadians can benefits of it and where bitcoin and cryptos in general are heading in the future. Almost no FUD (some about money laundering but experts said it is not a good option because of the public ledger). The government seems not want to regulate it because they seem to like the free market aspect but the experts asked for legal stance or clarity.

English version
http://hocca.wmod.llnwd.net/a4502/e2/20140403102609_9329_983.wmv

French version
http://hocca.wmod.llnwd.net/a4502/e2/20140403102609_9329_976.wmv

Floor version
http://hocca.wmod.llnwd.net/a4502/e2/20140403102609_9329_1099.wmv

Website
http://senparlvu.parl.gc.ca/Guide.aspx?viewmode=4&categoryid=-1&eventid=9329&Language=E#

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[Bit_Happy]

Sounds really positive, thank you.
I hope the Canadian banks are more friendly soon.

[BittBurger]

(some about money laundering but experts said it is not a good option because of the public ledger).

Its strange how Bitcoin was kind of "erroneously" presented to the public when it first gained widespread awareness.  The whole "anonymous" thing "which encourages money laundering" ... if you really think about it ... is completely false.  Everyone got hung up on the fact that a name isn't tied to an address.  Yet somehow ignoring that every single movement of money is fully tracked.   Cash in a briefcase is ten thousand times more anonymous than Bitcoin.  This should be law enforcements dream come true.   Everyone has to cash out at some point, or make a purchase somewhere.

-B-

[killinitsoftly]

I alwasy wanted to move up north... not that I dislike Amurhika, but Canada seems so chill!

[BitOnyx]

Canada definitely shows how it should be done.

[zolace]

While I'm impressed that you took the time to do this, I have to say that I don't particularly want the government involved, not for my ideals, but because of the enormous economic experiment going on here.

Think about it: this is the first currency that's entirely unregulated. If anything, it could help us get a better understanding of basic economic principles, and it's for this reason that I've been participating in bitcoin. I love the idea, and I want to see what happens.

If it wins, which I think it will, then hooray. If it loses, then se la vi.

So yeah. I'm just saying that this is valuable economic data, if nothing else.

[Hippie Tech]

Canada definitely shows how it should be done.

YAAAY ! We'll make it the best New World Order cashless society EEVERRRrrrr...

[Agent99]

Do they seem to like the free market aspect? i don't think so

[moni3z]

The worst thing ever is "seeking clarity". That is begging for government interference and regulation when you don't need any. Any clarity will involve hefty fees, licensing and deferring to the government for permission to do anything.

[franky1]

its good to know that governments are seeking advice.. but when these experts shy away from actually giving info, it just makes me want to slap people.

if i was asked to speak to a government group about bitcoin. knowing they would ask "what would bitcoin like".

i would not reply in terms of "clarification of what would government want" "clarification of what will government do"

after all the government is suppose to be there to protect all of us. so we should be telling government how we want things to be run.
i would never ask a question "will government ban bitcoin" i would however tell government that there is no reason to ban bitcoin.

as for the IRS verdict in USA.. because its property. then exchanges are not swapping currency, but allowing people to "bid" on property. making them more of an auction house.

which leads on that only the auction house that receives FIAT, as an agent on behalf of many people is monitored. but the goods sold do not need to be tracked, nor the individual people using such action house agents.

one of the government people said 'why should they regulate bitcoin, because they dont regulate gold'. which is true, they only regulate gold sellers that deal in FIAT on BEHALF of other people (brokers/agents). they do not regulate the people that sell it privately or that hold gold.

sometimes i wonder where they get some of these 'bitcoin experts'.. because if your going to go to a government meeting. you need to be a bitcoin and politics expert, to ensure the best result is given.

things i would have said, had i been there.
1) for governments to make a formal announcement that banks should not treat their customers as criminals simply because of bitcoin. to not decline accounts purely due to bitcoin, but only freeze accounts on the bases of definitive evidence that a terror/laundering event has or is occurring.
2) to be 21st century enough that a financial agency (business holding funds on behalf of customers) should be insured, and where the licence fee is low enough to be obtained, but reasonable enough to cover all government admin costs that may occur each year
EG making the licence under a couple thousand. but the insurance being the big costs. which if businesses want to store other peoples wealth then they need collateral to prove they can be trusted.

[moni3z]

Gold/silver if a certain purity is not subject to federal sales tax in Canada either. Choking all bitcoin transactions with a 5% Federal Tax, plus a 0-10% Provincial Tax depending where you live, is bullshit. That's like Mayor Quimby sized taxation UHH THERE IS A 15% BITCOIN TAX

[franky1]

Gold/silver if a certain purity is not subject to federal sales tax in Canada either. Choking all bitcoin transactions with a 5% Federal Tax, plus a 0-10% Provincial Tax depending where you live, is bullshit. That's like Mayor Quimby sized taxation UHH THERE IS A 15% BITCOIN TAX

so you pay sells tax when you sell property privately? like selling your car, or a signed T-shirt on EBAY. ??

no, only if your were a business selling products and merchandise would sales tax even come into it.. this is unrelated to bitcoin. bitcoin is not a retail product. so get the sales tax brainfart out of your mind, before you start spreading fud that IRS is calling bitcoin a retail product

[moni3z]

Gold/silver if a certain purity is not subject to federal sales tax in Canada either. Choking all bitcoin transactions with a 5% Federal Tax, plus a 0-10% Provincial Tax depending where you live, is bullshit. That's like Mayor Quimby sized taxation UHH THERE IS A 15% BITCOIN TAX

so you pay sells tax when you sell property privately? like selling your car, or a signed T-shirt on EBAY. ??

no, only if your were a business selling products and merchandise would sales tax even come into it.. this is unrelated to bitcoin. bitcoin is not a retail product. so get the sales tax brainfart out of your mind, before you start spreading fud that IRS is calling bitcoin a retail product

Herp Derp IRS isn't in Canada.
Herp Derp, you pay prov sales tax on used car sales in Canada
Herp Derp, Goods and SERVICES (note the word SERVICES) tax means any service is taxable.

This is why cavirtex charges a larger rate than other exchanges, because they are paying GST

[seriouscoin]

Gold/silver if a certain purity is not subject to federal sales tax in Canada either. Choking all bitcoin transactions with a 5% Federal Tax, plus a 0-10% Provincial Tax depending where you live, is bullshit. That's like Mayor Quimby sized taxation UHH THERE IS A 15% BITCOIN TAX

so you pay sells tax when you sell property privately? like selling your car, or a signed T-shirt on EBAY. ??

no, only if your were a business selling products and merchandise would sales tax even come into it.. this is unrelated to bitcoin. bitcoin is not a retail product. so get the sales tax brainfart out of your mind, before you start spreading fud that IRS is calling bitcoin a retail product

Herp Derp IRS isn't in Canada.
Herp Derp, you pay prov sales tax on used car sales in Canada
Herp Derp, Goods and SERVICES (note the word SERVICES) tax means any service is taxable.

This is why cavirtex charges a larger rate than other exchanges, because they are paying GST

Dont U.S ppl also pay tax on used car sales?

[franky1]

Gold/silver if a certain purity is not subject to federal sales tax in Canada either. Choking all bitcoin transactions with a 5% Federal Tax, plus a 0-10% Provincial Tax depending where you live, is bullshit. That's like Mayor Quimby sized taxation UHH THERE IS A 15% BITCOIN TAX

so you pay sells tax when you sell property privately? like selling your car, or a signed T-shirt on EBAY. ??

no, only if your were a business selling products and merchandise would sales tax even come into it.. this is unrelated to bitcoin. bitcoin is not a retail product. so get the sales tax brainfart out of your mind, before you start spreading fud that IRS is calling bitcoin a retail product

Herp Derp IRS isn't in Canada.
Herp Derp, you pay prov sales tax on used car sales in Canada
Herp Derp, Goods and SERVICES (note the word SERVICES) tax means any service is taxable.

This is why cavirtex charges a larger rate than other exchanges, because they are paying GST

Dont U.S ppl also pay tax on used car sales?

if i sold a car to a friend i dont pay sales tax, neither does americans or canadians.. as i said in my post before PRIVATE trades are not sales taxed. only BUSINESS sells. so to answer your question. only a car dealership pays sales tax. which only affects a small 1% as not everyone in canada is a dealership..
only BUSINESSES.. hang on let me repeat as some have ignore the point.. only BUSINESSES need to worry about sales tax.. but even then
 in terms of business.. they already know how to make profit selling things and also paying for their taxes. and again individauls dont pay sells tax.. so in 99.99% of cases neither side has to worry.

[moni3z]

if i sold a car to a friend i dont pay sales tax, neither does americans or canadians.. as i said in my post before PRIVATE trades are not sales taxed.

13% Ontario sales tax on PRIVATE sales to your friend payable when you attempt to transfer the vehicle on the full sale price. In BC it's like 12%
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/09/06/don%E2%80%99t-buy-a-used-car-from-your-province/ the only province that charges 0% provincial taxes is Alberta which is why most of the Bitcoin startups are there, but if they are a business they have to collect GST like cavirtex. This won't last, the next Ab gov will figure out how many billions they can siphon and drop in PST like everywhere else.

If I opened a bitcoin exchange tomorrow in BC I would have to charge 13% tax on everything and since the major fiat gateways are taxed that now affects the price across the country even private sale one offs, which will be more expensive. Meanwhile gold and silver traders pay 0 provincial and fed taxes. Bitcoin needs the lawyers and lobbyists they used lol

[seriouscoin]

Gold/silver if a certain purity is not subject to federal sales tax in Canada either. Choking all bitcoin transactions with a 5% Federal Tax, plus a 0-10% Provincial Tax depending where you live, is bullshit. That's like Mayor Quimby sized taxation UHH THERE IS A 15% BITCOIN TAX

so you pay sells tax when you sell property privately? like selling your car, or a signed T-shirt on EBAY. ??

no, only if your were a business selling products and merchandise would sales tax even come into it.. this is unrelated to bitcoin. bitcoin is not a retail product. so get the sales tax brainfart out of your mind, before you start spreading fud that IRS is calling bitcoin a retail product

Herp Derp IRS isn't in Canada.
Herp Derp, you pay prov sales tax on used car sales in Canada
Herp Derp, Goods and SERVICES (note the word SERVICES) tax means any service is taxable.

This is why cavirtex charges a larger rate than other exchanges, because they are paying GST

Dont U.S ppl also pay tax on used car sales?

if i sold a car to a friend i dont pay sales tax, neither does americans or canadians.. as i said in my post before PRIVATE trades are not sales taxed. only BUSINESS sells. so to answer your question. only a car dealership pays sales tax. which only affects a small 1% as not everyone in canada is a dealership..
only BUSINESSES.. hang on let me repeat as some have ignore the point.. only BUSINESSES need to worry about sales tax.. but even then
 in terms of business.. they already know how to make profit selling things and also paying for their taxes. and again individauls dont pay sells tax.. so in 99.99% of cases neither side has to worry.

I'm talking about if you're a buyer..... why would a seller pay tax? even business dont pay tax on sales, they "collect" sales taxes... please dont confuse others.

[TrueAccess]

More regulations incoming. Unless they would decide it is normal currency.

[atp1916]

While I'm impressed that you took the time to do this, I have to say that I don't particularly want the government involved, not for my ideals, but because of the enormous economic experiment going on here.

Think about it: this is the first currency that's entirely unregulated. If anything, it could help us get a better understanding of basic economic principles, and it's for this reason that I've been participating in bitcoin. I love the idea, and I want to see what happens.

If it wins, which I think it will, then hooray. If it loses, then se la vi.

So yeah. I'm just saying that this is valuable economic data, if nothing else.

The government will get involved, no matter what.  Bitcoin would do well to accept some form of sensible oversight, and move on into a broader integration into the market.

[lynn_402]

Sounds really positive, thank you.
I hope the Canadian banks are more friendly soon.

It will be soon
http://business.financialpost.com/2014/04/01/bmo-open-to-bitcoin-if-virtual-currency-is-regulated-reliable-says-ceo-bill-downe/