Some are HODLing it wrong

[death69]

Bitcoin fell 30% from 109k to about 85k just recently. That's normal. We've all seen worse. Interestingly, there are some all in on Bitcoin lost way more than 30%. Not because Bitcoin failed them, but because the way in which they held Bitcoin failed them.

Look what happened to Strategy (the Saylor company). They borrowed billions in order to purchase Bitcoin. At one point, people were paying $2.50 to every $1 of Bitcoin the company actually owned, simply just because they believed in the story. That premium evaporated to basically nothing. BlackRock, Vanguard and Fidelity quietly sold up $5 billion worth of shares in Q3. S&P downgraded them to junk. There was one day in which 42.9 million shares were traded - massive volume, on a down day. That's what a handoff looks like. Big money out, small money picking up what they dropped. The company had even to set aside $1.44 billion in cash just to pay interest for the next year or two.

Bitcoin didn't do a damn thing wrong. It's just sitting there, being Bitcoin. But the structures that people created around it (the leverage, the debt, the complicated products), those are what's breaking. You can really believe in Bitcoin with your whole heart and still get torn up if you're holding it through the wrong vehicle. The asset and the wrapper are NOT the same thing. A lot of people are about to find out the hard way.

[Frankolala]

If you're a long-term hodler, simple buying bitcoin with your discretionary using DCA and hodli wouldn't lead to to losses. It's when you sell your bitcoin that you will be in loss if you sold below your entry point. Your portfolio will depreciate in value but that's in dollar value and not the quantity of bitcoin in your portfolio. If you don't sell, the price will surely bounce back. Everyone has their reason why they got into bitcoin investment.

[Alonso_]

There is no other way of buying Bitcoin, than just buying Bitcoin on a weekly basis and monthly basis and holding your Bitcoin, whichever way that Bitcoin goes the most profitable way is just holding for a long term, I don’t know what you mean by some investors not holding Bitcoin very well, there is no other way that you can hold bitcoin rather than one circle or two circle, whatever that makes you sell your profits before this time or you aren’t buying on regular basis then that will make you a trader, because most traders can still hold for two or three years and eventually sell when they feel they have gotten to a satisfied given time, anyways some individuals do investment how they feel comfortable.

[She shining]

there are some all in on Bitcoin lost way more than 30%. Not

They didn't or haven't lost. Thats why it is called unrealized loss, you only loss when you sell.

BlackRock, Vanguard and Fidelity quietly sold up $5 billion worth of shares in Q3.

BlackRock, Vanguard and Fidelity don't own any Bitcoin so how were they able to sell, don't forget they buy bitcoin for others not themselves.
 

Not because Bitcoin failed them, but because the way in which they held Bitcoin failed them.

How do you hold bitcoin that bitcoin won't fail you because I can't really comprehend what you are saying. Don't focus on the short term, investment should be long term short term is for trading.

[I_Anime]

Exactly , things like this usually bring intense pressure to your holding . We all know that bitcoin isn’t some kind of charity that you will just buy and make double or triple of your money once like a Ponzi scheme , rather bitcoin work with growth and a good utility .

When investing/ Holding bitcoin make sure you are not going all in like putting too much at stake like a form of gambling and stuff , try and do it the proper way , flow with the growth accumulate with less pressure . Make use of amount you are okay with or afford don’t go to the extent of collecting loans and stuff , then when there’s drop in price you start blaming bitcoin ,well knowing that you are the  problem because if you are investing properly you won’t be so concerned with the market but rather with the growth .

[Fivestar4everMVP]

The best and most effective way to hold bitcoin which I believe alot of us already know is to choose the long term hold, and do not invest in bitcoin through any third party services/brokers or asset managers like Blackrock and the likes cus they too are after their own profit.

Best to buy the real on chain bitcoins through exchange and withdraw to ones private wallet and hold it there, choose the long term because it's pretty difficult to profit from bitcoin in the short term, atleast, things have changed this much..
Those who choose to invest in the wrapped version of bitcoin through asset managers or other means are simply taking a double risk.

[Majestic-milf]

 For me I'd say such a thing is happening because many put too much expectations on Bitcoin and while some would think it as going all out and being a risk takers, it's actually being careless and approaching it wrong. I get it when people like Microstrategy and the rest try to go heavy when it comes to investment but sometimes they forget that once it doesn't go according to plan, when they dump it affects the market .

[mrust_mobile]

You are telling the truth but I am not sure if people will ever care about it. People like Michael Saylor will always attract investors as shitcoins do. Some people somewhere will always show demand for ponzi schemes and other high risk “investments”. They could invest in bitcoin only make a killing in 4-5 years but they don’t want to wait that long. People like us think volatility is an indicator of risk but those people hear differently. You say risk, they hear opportunity. We are simply not talking the same language. I stopped caring about those noobs tbh. It is their money and they can do whatever they want with it. Let them lose their money on crap stocks like strategy or shitcoins. Take a look at strategy’s performance. It is a mess. At least bitcoin is still doing fine despite all the leverage michael saylor put on btc.

[PrivacyG]

There will be a day when people will find out the hard way AGAIN.  They never learn from the past mistakes of their own or even past mistakes other people made.  But just as I said earlier today.  This is because the people who are 'holding Bitcoin' through ETFs, Micro Strategy or other ways of custodians, they do not want to hold Bitcoin.  They want to earn the Profits Bitcoin can make and then get out of it to purchase other things.  Houses, cars, women, what ever.

If you look at the numbers of how many people are 'holding Bitcoin' in a custodian way, there is no way so many people are smart enough with their Money.  Just like I would expect a Lottery winner to waste all their Money away almost immediately on things that either devalue over time or are consumables.

Unfortunately the number of people who will continue to hold Bitcoin the right way is going to remain low and will possibly become even lower when Governments will start pushing for 'anonymous Wallet bans' and such other absurd regulations.  It is what it is.  What is important is that we do not fall for the same traps.  We are supposed to run away from custodians and not embrace them.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Buying shares of a company that stacks bitcoin is not HODLing. But people need to realize that the system isn't structured so that it's a simple fiat to bitcoin swap, for everyone. There's locked capital that is legislatively prohibited to be swapped for bitcoin in a self-custodial way. And in fact this capital is worth more than $30 trillion. Strategy is a proxy that can actually expose that capital to the bitcoin market, and so it provides a service to a real-world problem.

You just need to understand what you're buying. Obviously, buying shares of a company comes with counterparty risk. Stacking bitcoin is the way to go for most people, but the bitcoin treasury companies is something that is inevitable to happen if we want fiat to die. 

[Z-tight]

You can really believe in Bitcoin with your whole heart and still get torn up if you're holding it through the wrong vehicle. The asset and the wrapper are NOT the same thing. A lot of people are about to find out the hard way.

I have had to correct a lot of people who say things along this lines: 'is BTC still decentralized because many people store it through IOU's and other similar stuff'. It should be easy to understand that what people do with their coins does not affect the network in itself. Like i love to say, 'their keys, their coins'.

I store my coins in self custody. But i am smart enough to know that a lot of people may be more 'comfortable' with other methods. Do i agree or recommend such? Surely not. But even i don't get to decide what's right or wrong in a decentralized network.

[Dogedegen]

Bitcoin fell 30% from 109k to about 85k just recently. That's normal. We've all seen worse. Interestingly, there are some all in on Bitcoin lost way more than 30%. Not because Bitcoin failed them, but because the way in which they held Bitcoin failed them.

You didn't even explain what ways are wrong according to you and how many people you consider under some. If you are trying to make this as yet another thread against leverage trading, then it is not unique at all. This has been discussed for a long time.

Look what happened to Strategy (the Saylor company). They borrowed billions in order to purchase Bitcoin. At one point, people were paying $2.50 to every $1 of Bitcoin the company actually owned, simply just because they believed in the story. That premium evaporated to basically nothing. BlackRock, Vanguard and Fidelity quietly sold up $5 billion worth of shares in Q3. S&P downgraded them to junk. There was one day in which 42.9 million shares were traded - massive volume, on a down day. That's what a handoff looks like. Big money out, small money picking up what they dropped. The company had even to set aside $1.44 billion in cash just to pay interest for the next year or two.

The strategy of Strategy is sound. They know what they are doing and they are rich, unlike you and me. You think that this shows that they have done something wrong, the reality is the exact opposite of that. This shows that they have excellent risk management, hedging practices and adaptability to changing market conditions.

Bitcoin didn't do a damn thing wrong. It's just sitting there, being Bitcoin. But the structures that people created around it (the leverage, the debt, the complicated products), those are what's breaking. You can really believe in Bitcoin with your whole heart and still get torn up if you're holding it through the wrong vehicle. The asset and the wrapper are NOT the same thing. A lot of people are about to find out the hard way.

This has nothing to do with Strategy. I have no idea why you mention people, then bring up a story about Strategy and then again mention generic advice that relates to people.

Buying shares of a company that stacks bitcoin is not HODLing. But people need to realize that the system isn't structured so that it's a simple fiat to bitcoin swap, for everyone. There's locked capital that is legislatively prohibited to be swapped for bitcoin in a self-custodial way. And in fact this capital is worth more than $30 trillion. Strategy is a proxy that can actually expose that capital to the bitcoin market, and so it provides a service to a real-world problem.

HODLing has nothing to do with the stock market, I have no idea what OP wants to say here. If some people like to buy Strategy stock, then they can do whatever they want. The most common critics of people who buy well performing stock or have money to buy stock in good quantity are poor people or people who have lost money in scams.

[Furious 7]

Bitcoin fell 30% from 109k to about 85k just recently. That's normal. We've all seen worse. Interestingly, there are some all in on Bitcoin lost way more than 30%. Not because Bitcoin failed them, but because the way in which they held Bitcoin failed them.

When bitcoin undergoes a correction and the price decreases, it does not mean that our bitcoin has decreased because the amount we have is still the same, it's just that the value has decreased slightly.
Sometimes situations like this are sometimes confusing for everyone because they feel as if their bitcoins are decreasing even though it should be noted in this case only the value is shrinking but our bitcoins are still the same as we have bought without any reduction.

But it is because of shrinkage like this that they always panic excessively which makes them not even think further even though they are in a state of loss in terms of value depreciation.
But those who realize that the long term can have a much better chance and those of us who have been in bitcoin long enough I don't think will consider this because from the start we will still try to be strong hands.

[Findingnemo]

The asset and the wrapper are NOT the same thing. A lot of people are about to find out the hard way.

And some people never learn anything either.

People think that holding WBTC is just the same as BTC because they feel that they can save some pennies with the withdrawal from exchanges or think that ETF is also bitcoin but the reality is bitcoin is bitcoin and everything else is just created to look like bitcoin but under the control of someone in one way or the other.

Stop wasting on convincing those ignorants, you just keep stacking your stash.

[taufik123]

-snip-
Unfortunately the number of people who will continue to hold Bitcoin the right way is going to remain low and will possibly become even lower when Governments will start pushing for 'anonymous Wallet bans' and such other absurd regulations.  It is what it is.  What is important is that we do not fall for the same traps.  We are supposed to run away from custodians and not embrace them.

Not our keys, Not our coins, it seems to have indeed become an inherent term for problems like this,
holding Bitcoin but unlike holding bitcoin, more risk of losing so easily because of the Custodian.

The ban on anonymous wallets will not be completely enforced even if the government expressly imposes them,
but they will not have full control, there are many ways that can be done to remain anonymous.

The number of people holding the right way using Non-Custodial wallets remains low as more people or those who are beginners choose to store their assets in Custodial wallets due to practicality issues,
and they do not want to keep their own important keys, even though they are simply risking their assets for wallets that are not in full control.

[Rufsilf]

For me I'd say such a thing is happening because many put too much expectations on Bitcoin and while some would think it as going all out and being a risk takers, it's actually being careless and approaching it wrong. I get it when people like Microstrategy and the rest try to go heavy when it comes to investment but sometimes they forget that once it doesn't go according to plan, when they dump it affects the market .

Same thoughts here. It's never bad to invest in bitcoin and considered it a long-term investment, but when you decide to risk higher and cross your limits, that's when problems start to arise. Do not forget that bitcoin is still a high-risk asset, and any wrong move will lead to an unexpected loss.

Honestly, its never bad to take a loan and buy a significant amount of bitcoin. What makes it bad is when you take a loan and expect to repay that from your future investment profits because you are too positive on its outcome, ignoring the fact that bitcoin also comes with losses especially if you are investing and holding it with the wrong mindset.

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

Honestly, its never bad to take a loan and buy a significant amount of bitcoin. What makes it bad is when you take a loan and expect to repay that from your future investment profits because you are too positive on its outcome, ignoring the fact that bitcoin also comes with losses especially if you are investing and holding it with the wrong mindset.

Take a loan for your investment to buy bitcoin is not a safe apprpoach. It contains risk that you will not be able to maintain your income so that you are able to pay the loan interest while there is no guarantee of profit for your Bitcoin investment from the loan, especially within a short holding time.

I am sure that people who take loan for investment are very confident that their investment will lead to profit and they can use part of profit for loan interest payment. The reality can be different than their dream thinking and perhaps some of such degen investors will have to sell their bitcoins for paying loan interest when their investment is temporarily in loss.

Investment requires long term holding and it's safer to invest with own money, not with an loan and any loan interest rate.

[tread93]

Bitcoin fell 30% from 109k to about 85k just recently. That's normal. We've all seen worse. Interestingly, there are some all in on Bitcoin lost way more than 30%. Not because Bitcoin failed them, but because the way in which they held Bitcoin failed them.

Look what happened to Strategy (the Saylor company). They borrowed billions in order to purchase Bitcoin. At one point, people were paying $2.50 to every $1 of Bitcoin the company actually owned, simply just because they believed in the story. That premium evaporated to basically nothing. BlackRock, Vanguard and Fidelity quietly sold up $5 billion worth of shares in Q3. S&P downgraded them to junk. There was one day in which 42.9 million shares were traded - massive volume, on a down day. That's what a handoff looks like. Big money out, small money picking up what they dropped. The company had even to set aside $1.44 billion in cash just to pay interest for the next year or two.

Bitcoin didn't do a damn thing wrong. It's just sitting there, being Bitcoin. But the structures that people created around it (the leverage, the debt, the complicated products), those are what's breaking. You can really believe in Bitcoin with your whole heart and still get torn up if you're holding it through the wrong vehicle. The asset and the wrapper are NOT the same thing. A lot of people are about to find out the hard way.

We can only hope that for the future we will be able to build better safeguards that don't impact bitcoin in a negative light. One day perhaps bitcoin will  go up to never before seen new ATHs but at some point people and companies are going to have a sort of shift and they will begin to accumulate as much as they can!

[Vaculin]

Bitcoin is a good and valuable investment, that has been proven countless times. The reason why some enter bitcoin expecting smaller losses but bigger wins, or it could be all profits all throughout investing. And that's when they start trusting bitcoin so much and set leverage even if the results are still to be discovered. And that is their first mistake with bitcoin, they never wait to earn profits first prior to leveraging. Its like they risk all what they can risk because they believe bitcoin in return will offer them 10 or 20 times fold, only to get surprised with how bitcoin's next move that gradually turn their profit expectations into total liquidation.

Some are hodling it right, but majority are doing the wrong one. So its not surprising why a lot fails and lose compared to those who are in real, big profits.

[Dunamisx]

Bitcoin fell 30% from 109k to about 85k just recently. That's normal. We've all seen worse. Interestingly, there are some all in on Bitcoin lost way more than 30%. Not because Bitcoin failed them, but because the way in which they held Bitcoin failed them.

That's true, we can't deny the fact that not everyone is holding it the right way, the market has been falling and some sold at the fall of the market, and immediately after that opted out the market begin to pump more and better, leaving them on losses already, not everyone holding understand the necessary things to do when there's a market fall and everything seems to be more volatile, and this is why we must develop a thicker skin before investing .