Some are HODLing it wrong

[kawetsriyanto]

They bought Bitcoin using massive debt &  financial engineering. This leveraged wrapper brought them &  many investors significant profits when Bitcoin skyrocketed. But  with Bitcoins price now down 30 % or more, the debt burden &  declining net asset value relative to liabilities are putting significant pressure on the companys shares. Their stock  were trading at a significant premium to Bitcoins price, which was largely driven by expectations of a potential bullish position in Bitcoin. But those premiums have now evaporated. The general weaknesses of borrowing, preferred equity &  debt maturities have been compounded by the fact that Bitcoin is not in a bad state

Indeed. I totally don't understand why they need to invest in BTC with the debt? They can invest with their own money, just invest with the company profits got by them monthly or yearly. Sure, the debt money brings huge pressure for them. That's why they are starting a plan of selling Bitcoin. They actually makes something easy to be complicated in that way.

So investing in leveraged companies or debt  based instruments can still expose you to significant additional risk. While the underlying asset, Bitcoin, may be immune to the fall, its wrappers or related instruments may be at risk

It doesn't only make it to be riskier, it possible ruins the company. Bitcoin may keep increase for the long term, but no one can guarantee it. Well, it is untrue that Bitcoin is immune to the decline.

[topbitcoin]

Indeed. I totally don't understand why they need to invest in BTC with the debt? They can invest with their own money, just invest with the company profits got by them monthly or yearly. Sure, the debt money brings huge pressure for them. That's why they are starting a plan of selling Bitcoin. They actually makes something easy to be complicated in that way.

If you have good enough collateral and good business and if our conditions are qualified, you can actually do this because if we look at it for now, even Saylor, who has always been a role model for maximalists, even boldly said he had debt to buy bitcoin.

But in the end this condition is comparable because he has a lot of collateral and the wealth of the company being managed is certainly proportional to the debt so that he will not experience major problems.
We can follow him if we are able to like Saylor but if we still feel burdened by economic conditions making loans to invest for the long term in bitcoin it could make us actually burden ourselves so that in the end it is not too ethical to force something risky.
Even if we want to be Saylor in terms of maximalism, we need to be aware of the economic strength we have.

[coolcoinz]

I wouldn't blame Strategy for hodling "wrong" they are making a bet on it. That bet is going to allow them to own more bitcoin that they would if they played it safe.

In short, if they were to just buy bitcoin, that would allow them to have maybe a third of what they own now, but they are buying it with borrowed money, using loans with delayed interest payments to make that bet because they believe by the time the loan is due bitcoin will be worth more.
I believe that to be a great choice because without making this bet they'd go bankrupt anyway, so now they will either do it faster, or never.

What do you think? Is bitcoin going to be worth more than $120k in 5 years? I'm pretty sure it will and so does Saylor.
There can be much worse ways of hodling than that

[sleepfirefly]

what people fail to realize is that no matter where you buy your bitcoins from, your security isn’t guaranteed. just because you bought bitcoin from a centralized company doesn’t mean that your money would never decline alongside the rest of us, what you are sacrificing is your own privacy and ownership but there is no guarantee of profit even if you buy bitcoin etfs

[Mate2237]

I agree with you the intention of these companies which are panicking today and selling their Bitcoin holdings was wrong to them it was about making money and making it quick through Bitcoin and they are now disappointed simply because of the downward trend that Bitcoin is experiencing temporarily. Maybe if Bitcoin goes up again they will buy again.


Anyone buying Bitcoin should know of the risk factors involved because and know in detail how Bitcoin works so that they don't get disappointed and begin to sell in panic the way that these companies are doing. I think that these companies were playing the fast game which has bounced back on them taking loans to invest in Bitcoin to me was is not a smart move that these companies made.

[finaleshot2016]

Yeah, if you just want a crypto, just buy it directly and have a good position, if it's dipping then go DCA. Everything is simple but those people that wants to make money out of it, they make a complicated blueprint to it which destroys BTC image. But for us, who've been here since the start, we know the cycle and how it goes, this is just a normal scenario for crypto holders because it'll eventually go back to its deserving market.

People will get shake, lose money and other kind of stuff but it's not BTC's fault, it's the greed and how impatient other people is when it comes to money.

[Hispo]

That is why it is crucial for people to educate themselves and stay away from wrapped assets which are supposedly tied and pegged to Bitcoin and buy the real thing and hold it in the long term.
EFTs are a speculative vehicle which helps more investors to be aware of Bitcoin and it's potential, but the ultimate goal for Bitcoiners and investors is to get their own cold storage device and get their Satoshis onto those.

While the market in the United States continues to be what it currently is, there will be always a chance for big fish to manipulate ETFs and centralized assets, not even mentioning the risks behind centralized tokens like Wrapped Bitcoin, which could default their clients in a blink of an eye.

[nakamura12]

I agree with you the intention of these companies which are panicking today and selling their Bitcoin holdings was wrong to them it was about making money and making it quick through Bitcoin and they are now disappointed simply because of the downward trend that Bitcoin is experiencing temporarily. Maybe if Bitcoin goes up again they will buy again.


Anyone buying Bitcoin should know of the risk factors involved because and know in detail how Bitcoin works so that they don't get disappointed and begin to sell in panic the way that these companies are doing. I think that these companies were playing the fast game which has bounced back on them taking loans to invest in Bitcoin to me was is not a smart move that these companies made.

This is true, it should be in long term if a person or a company wanted to hold bitcoin rather than playing the fast game or short term holding. In my opinion, they must have thought that Bitcoin is a get rich quick scheme that's why the only hold it for a short term rather than for a long term that's why it leads to losing profit or didn't even earn much profit even though they spend huge amount of money to buy Bitcoin.

[Dogedegen]

Indeed. I totally don't understand why they need to invest in BTC with the debt? They can invest with their own money, just invest with the company profits got by them monthly or yearly.

It is because you have never studied economics or finances. It is time to read some books instead of making baseless speculations here. Debt is an important tool when used right.

That's why they are starting a plan of selling Bitcoin.

This is not true, they have no plan of selling Bitcoin.

They actually makes something easy to be complicated in that way.

Debt is very simple, there is nothing complicated about it. You just lack education.

It doesn't only make it to be riskier, it possible ruins the company. Bitcoin may keep increase for the long term, but no one can guarantee it. Well, it is untrue that Bitcoin is immune to the decline.

Again you write nonsense. The whole point of the company is to be a treasury company for Bitcoin. If Bitcoin goes down for good, then the company is going down with or without debt. It makes little difference.

That is why it is crucial for people to educate themselves and stay away from wrapped assets which are supposedly tied and pegged to Bitcoin and buy the real thing and hold it in the long term.
EFTs are a speculative vehicle which helps more investors to be aware of Bitcoin and it's potential, but the ultimate goal for Bitcoiners and investors is to get their own cold storage device and get their Satoshis onto those.

The danger from wrapped products is overblown. I have never heard of a single person who bought something like wBTC thinking that it is the real Bitcoin. Pretty much everyone who buys it does so to participate in DeFi or because they are on the ETH ecosystem or some other one and want some exposure to Bitcoin. Do you really think that such a person cares if it is the real Bitcoin or not? They don't, so these stories are way blown out of proportion.

[OcTradism]

This is true, it should be in long term if a person or a company wanted to hold bitcoin rather than playing the fast game or short term holding. In my opinion, they must have thought that Bitcoin is a get rich quick scheme that's why the only hold it for a short term rather than for a long term that's why it leads to losing profit or didn't even earn much profit even though they spend huge amount of money to buy Bitcoin.

Focusing on long term investment and holding makes your job more easy and comfortable with good investment ROI. You will not feel stressful like trading or speculating in this volatile and unpredictable market for profit in short term. Price is unpredictable and if you fall to short term challenging price prediction game, you will have more chance of becoming a failure with loss in this market.

Holding bitcoin over years shows its good ROI in your investment result, and it's a safest way to spend your money and make profit in this market. The HODL camp and the chart of Bitcoin profitable days can prove this power of holding.
http://hodl.camp/
https://www.bitcoinmagazinepro.com/charts/bitcoin-profitable-days/

[X-ray]

Bitcoin didn't do a damn thing wrong. It's just sitting there, being Bitcoin. But the structures that people created around it (the leverage, the debt, the complicated products), those are what's breaking. You can really believe in Bitcoin with your whole heart and still get torn up if you're holding it through the wrong vehicle. The asset and the wrapper are NOT the same thing. A lot of people are about to find out the hard way.

When there is cascading liquidation happening when ethena's USDe momentarily depegged not even for a full 30 minutes I know market has over leveraged and putting themselves at really tight spot.

A momentary depeg is enough to wipe out the market. The market has now become a multi layered mess that depend on each other so if one thing broke other more likely become broken too.

This BTC correction should've been expected but regardless we are still seing news headline about how hundred millions of dollar got liquidated in the crypto perpetual market. People just never learn.

The most obvious thing to actually earn profit in this market is always holding.

[Shineup]

Exactly , things like this usually bring intense pressure to your holding . We all know that bitcoin isn’t some kind of charity that you will just buy and make double or triple of your money once like a Ponzi scheme , rather bitcoin work with growth and a good utility .

When investing/ Holding bitcoin make sure you are not going all in like putting too much at stake like a form of gambling and stuff , try and do it the proper way , flow with the growth accumulate with less pressure . Make use of amount you are okay with or afford don’t go to the extent of collecting loans and stuff , then when there’s drop in price you start blaming bitcoin ,well knowing that you are the  problem because if you are investing properly you won’t be so concerned with the market but rather with the growth .

I see the first problem starts from using money not willing to lose or it could be a borrowed money and wanting a quick gain and when it isn't happening as expected you are in deep problem and Bitcoin becomes what to blame while all the moves was a wrong part way, the pressure I see is that majority are looking for something that will bring quick money and they get involved with Bitcoin thinking is a quick money scheme and when they realized it is not they becomes disappointed they panic and sell at lost.

[NewRevelation]

If you're a long-term hodler, simple buying bitcoin with your discretionary using DCA and hodli wouldn't lead to to losses. It's when you sell your bitcoin that you will be in loss if you sold below your entry point. Your portfolio will depreciate in value but that's in dollar value and not the quantity of bitcoin in your portfolio. If you don't sell, the price will surely bounce back. Everyone has their reason why they got into bitcoin investment.

True, because the means you buy us the real problem. If you buy with the wrong money, or trying to be aggressively involved, stacking up alot but in the wrong way, then you are bound to fall into losses, surely. Just like the OP mentioned, the parameters with which they bought is very wrong. You chat be answering a big time bitcoin owner, while you bought with the wrong source. Imagine an investor buying a whole lot of Bitcoin with a borrowed money, of with your basic salary without taking care of there basic needs, what do we expect?

It's best we buy within our means, as consistent buys with your DCA and HODLING for long is the real deal

[Rockstarguy]

So far as Bitcoin is concerned, the best way to invest is to invest an amount that you can afford; you don't necessarily need to borrow money to invest in Bitcoin. If you don't have enough money to invest in Bitcoin, it is even better to start small. This is where we have the DCA (Dollar-Cost Averaging) strategy of investing in Bitcoin, where a small amount of money can be put into Bitcoin, and from time to time, more Bitcoin will be accumulated. In a short time, you will end up succeeding in having a large sum of Bitcoin. It is very risky to borrow money to invest in Bitcoin; it is more preferable to invest your own money, as this allows you to comfortably invest in Bitcoin.

[Just Say]

Exactly , things like this usually bring intense pressure to your holding . We all know that bitcoin isn’t some kind of charity that you will just buy and make double or triple of your money once like a Ponzi scheme , rather bitcoin work with growth and a good utility .

When investing/ Holding bitcoin make sure you are not going all in like putting too much at stake like a form of gambling and stuff , try and do it the proper way , flow with the growth accumulate with less pressure . Make use of amount you are okay with or afford don’t go to the extent of collecting loans and stuff , then when there’s drop in price you start blaming bitcoin ,well knowing that you are the  problem because if you are investing properly you won’t be so concerned with the market but rather with the growth .

Literally, your argument is correct that digital gold is not a charity that everyone can buy like a Ponzi scheme and earn double or triple their money, but rather the best and most effective way to hold this electronic currency, because through investing in this coin, a stage will come where people and companies will change their perspective. Moreover, although the price decline is inevitable, long-term holders should not worry, in fact, we are very confident about the market for this currency that its track record will repeat itself and over time the currency will increase in demand and touch new ATH. Besides the steps of those who are jumping into investment out of a desire for quick profits may not be accurate the most obvious thing to achieve yield in these conditions is to always hold

[AYOBA]

Why some people’s hold Bitcoin wrong is because their lack of knowledge about Bitcoin investments. Because some think that is only trading that deserves enough knowledge, and anybody has to deal with investment most also have a little knowledge in other to know how they can able to handle the market as well. Bitcoin is now the best where each an everyone prefers to invest since is a reliable coin; and that’s why we can see a lot of people’s abounded the altcoins and face the Bitcoin in terms of investments.

Because it brings huge profits to in future if you can able to hold it for a long period of time, but some will just go and accumulate more than what they cannot afford; which is why they failed to hold it in the right way.

[Mahiyammahi]

You have a good point, but saying that a proxy like Strategy is the kind of wrong vehicle is a one sided thing. Premiums and discounts are actually normal in public company shares .  They will shrink if the story changes. Institutions rebalanced in Q3 it’s not necessarily a sign of distrust in Bitcoin or the company. Leverage increases risk, but it’s this leverage that has provided many times the returns in bullish times. Strategy debts are mostly convertible and long dated usually, so there’s less pressure for immediate margin calls. The real lesson is Choose vehicles based on your time, patience, and risk tolerance.

[katanic97]

I agree with you the intention of these companies which are panicking today and selling their Bitcoin holdings was wrong to them it was about making money and making it quick through Bitcoin and they are now disappointed simply because of the downward trend that Bitcoin is experiencing temporarily. Maybe if Bitcoin goes up again they will buy again.


Anyone buying Bitcoin should know of the risk factors involved because and know in detail how Bitcoin works so that they don't get disappointed and begin to sell in panic the way that these companies are doing. I think that these companies were playing the fast game which has bounced back on them taking loans to invest in Bitcoin to me was is not a smart move that these companies made.

This is true, it should be in long term if a person or a company wanted to hold bitcoin rather than playing the fast game or short term holding. In my opinion, they must have thought that Bitcoin is a get rich quick scheme that's why the only hold it for a short term rather than for a long term that's why it leads to losing profit or didn't even earn much profit even though they spend huge amount of money to buy Bitcoin.

Mostly, impatience is the trigger that makes people lose a significant part of their investment in bitcoin. The times we live in are such that everyone wants everything fast and immediately people rush and panic instead of just being patient. Anyone new to this must first educate themselves and ask someone experienced how things work. I know a lot of people who got into bitcoin just because someone told them they could make money ...

[Sonia_123]

Buying bitcoin wrongly leads to more problem instead of securing you will be losing, therefore you are to buy bitcoins as it has been said with your discretionary income and nothing either daily, weekly or monthly depends on what you can afford,  it is better you are slow in your accumulation than wanting to be fast and making it big then put yourself in a tight bent corners which will lead you to a low or no coiner.

[Darker45]

Not only are they hodling it wrong, they aren't hodling it at all. What do they hodl really? Do they really own the coins they claim to own? Do they have unhindered access to their coins? Do they have complete control over them?

On the other hand, however, are the BlackRock and ^BTCStrategy scenarios evitable? Can Bitcoin just wipe out traditional finance? I'm afraid not. Rather than Bitcoin taking over, it's actually merging that's happening. Traditional finance is well established in society. The traditional and the new will only meet at some point, and that's what's taking place right now.