Back to the roots of Bitcoin

[Ucy]

That sounds like a. decentralized Bitcoin marketplace where buyers, sellers, "service providers", etc meet to exchange goods and services for Bitcoin.
Ofcourse, this is part of what the community is currently focused on, by working to put in place things that will make such marketplace a success, things like  —Sidechains/Multichain networks for faster transactions and cheaper fees, —Smart Escrow System for locking/unlocking funds, products or services based on written/programmable agreements, —faud-proof reputation system for rating/reviewing buyers and sellers, and additionally,  —an algorithmic marketplace that firstly suggest reputable local sellers in order to promote local or "buy first from sellers nearest to you (that you can easily meet physically) before those farther away" to reduce the risks of scams and enable faster dispute resolution. Such marketplaces need incentives that can attract the right kind of people who create very useful, beneficial, safe products and services that are worth paying for with Bitcoin. Remember, it's better to hold your bitcoins for future price increase than spending it on things that are worthless or less valuable than holding would earn you. Therefore, very useful and valuable products and services should be encouraged more on such marketplaces so that people will be more willing to buy them than holding or using Bitcoin as Store of Value in anticipation of price increase..

* The products/services on the marketplace should be things that benefit the Bitcoin system or community in one way or another

[uchegod-21]

With this your network model, this means this network will only be used by merchants who accept bitcoin payments and will fix their prices using any method they deem neccessary? Because after reading through it all, I was curious to know how prices of goods and services will be determined since you said fiat will not be used anywhere. I am thinking that there should at least be a basis for determining the value of commodities, just to compare the fiat and bitcoin value even if fiat will not be used as a means of payment.  How do you intend to fix this issue?

[d5000]

In the lightning network structure, when paying with Bitcoin, you are tied to the value of a particular product in relation to fiat (usd/cad/eur..). That is, if you buy something for 0.001 Bitcoin and it costs $200, you convert $200 into Bitcoin and make the payment.

That is not true. There may be platforms that use Lightning in that way, but the "standard" way of using Lightning does not need any fiat intermediation.

Also, in this network, everyone can be a content creator, sell something for bitcoins, or generate content for which you will receive a portion of bitcoins.

Just this kind of use case has also been explored with Lightning as well, often in conjunction with Nostr (a decentralized messaging protocol). See the Value4Value community as an example. Nostr can also be used with Tor, and it has no identities tied to central servers, so it is quite anonymous already.

It's still possible that your platform offers a bit more like that, but then it would be interesting to know on what exactly it improves. And it looks like it's more monolithic than Value4Value.

And you've still not answered the question about the underlying technology for the "instant" transfers.

In the case of the Lightning Network, there are three separate structures: you, the means of payment transfer, and the organisation. In my network, it is a single structure, but no one knows who is who.

Again you make assumptions about Lightning which aren't true. Lightning itself doesn't need an "organization". This is only the case if you use Lightning in a standard eCommerce system, where you indeed pay to an "organization". But Lightning "as such" does not need that at all.

I'm becoming very skeptical of this "project", sorry.

[GeorgeJohn]

It is great that Bitcoin is slowly moving into a decentralized economy. If people who hold Bitcoin can use Bitcoin to directly exchange value for buying and selling products, then it is a great thing. But there are still many limitations here because Bitcoin is still banned in most countries of the world, in view of which various selling organizations are not able to sell their products directly in Bitcoin. I think that in the current situation, the secondary buying and selling of Bitcoin is at a very limited level. As it gradually spreads, then its benefits will be presented to the largest extent.

Why bitcoin were created is because of globally transactions across the nation, but most of us misunderstood the mission of bitcoin and follow the investment parts of bitcoin, the problem we still having in bitcoin, is that, it's yet a a legal tender...For aspects of people who is holding Bitcoin to be use bitcoin as exchanges of goods and services

Bitcoin will later be use in such way, but the thing is that we need to know that bitcoin is not yet a legal tender, so it will be difficult to use bitcoin for buying and selling of goods and services manually, such buying and selling of goods and services can be done with bitcoin through Internet.

[DubemIfedigbo001]

Why bitcoin were created is because of globally transactions across the nation, but most of us misunderstood the mission of bitcoin and follow the investment parts of bitcoin, the problem we still having in bitcoin, is that, it's yet a a legal tender...For aspects of people who is holding Bitcoin to be use bitcoin as exchanges of goods and services

Investing into Bitcoin isn't to be termed a misunderstanding. One of it's features is to be used as a store of value, it's still being used for P2P transactions everyday, as adoption increases, more people would be inclined to use it for payments, especially through LN for smaller payments.

Bitcoin will later be use in such way, but the thing is that we need to know that bitcoin is not yet a legal tender, so it will be difficult to use bitcoin for buying and selling of goods and services manually, such buying and selling of goods and services can be done with bitcoin through Internet.

Bitcoin is already used for payments in a lot of places.  If you visit this this thread, you'll see lots of places where businesses are accepting Bitcoin for payments for goods and services across many nations of which most are through LN for instant payments. You can visit those places and even more and pay with Bitcoin on the spot.

Bitcoin doesn't need to be a legal tender of a nation to be accepted by businesses. Businesses include it to provide more payment options to its clients and attract crypto enthusiasts as long as it's legal in the country.

For a legal tender, we've El Salvador which has made Bitcoin a legal tender since 2021.

[Cryptoblck]

In the lightning network structure, when paying with Bitcoin, you are tied to the value of a particular product in relation to fiat (usd/cad/eur..). That is, if you buy something for 0.001 Bitcoin and it costs $200, you convert $200 into Bitcoin and make the payment.

That is not true. There may be platforms that use Lightning in that way, but the "standard" way of using Lightning does not need any fiat intermediation.

Also, in this network, everyone can be a content creator, sell something for bitcoins, or generate content for which you will receive a portion of bitcoins.

Just this kind of use case has also been explored with Lightning as well, often in conjunction with Nostr (a decentralized messaging protocol). See the Value4Value community as an example. Nostr can also be used with Tor, and it has no identities tied to central servers, so it is quite anonymous already.

It's still possible that your platform offers a bit more like that, but then it would be interesting to know on what exactly it improves. And it looks like it's more monolithic than Value4Value.

And you've still not answered the question about the underlying technology for the "instant" transfers.

In the case of the Lightning Network, there are three separate structures: you, the means of payment transfer, and the organisation. In my network, it is a single structure, but no one knows who is who.

Again you make assumptions about Lightning which aren't true. Lightning itself doesn't need an "organization". This is only the case if you use Lightning in a standard eCommerce system, where you indeed pay to an "organization". But Lightning "as such" does not need that at all.

I'm becoming very skeptical of this "project", sorry.

NOSTR is an anti-anonymous structure with a lot of metadata and publicity. You are confusing primitive decentralisation, where power is simply distributed, with anonymous distributed systems.

Lightning needs organisation, and organisation means any shop or external enterprise that needs to be connected to the Lightning Network, but because of the nature of the Lightning Network, this shop or enterprise that will receive payment in bitcoins will not be part of the internal system (it's like you and your friend signing a friendship agreement, but not being friends). Lightning is just a means of transport for transactions and nothing more. It does not unite shops and enterprises into a single, decentralised and ultra-anonymous structure. That's the first thing.


In standard situations, Lightning is used to pay for something in bitcoins using regular currency. In rare cases, it is used for bitcoin transactions.

[Cryptoblck]

In the lightning network structure, when paying with Bitcoin, you are tied to the value of a particular product in relation to fiat (usd/cad/eur..). That is, if you buy something for 0.001 Bitcoin and it costs $200, you convert $200 into Bitcoin and make the payment.

That is not true. There may be platforms that use Lightning in that way, but the "standard" way of using Lightning does not need any fiat intermediation.

Also, in this network, everyone can be a content creator, sell something for bitcoins, or generate content for which you will receive a portion of bitcoins.

Just this kind of use case has also been explored with Lightning as well, often in conjunction with Nostr (a decentralized messaging protocol). See the Value4Value community as an example. Nostr can also be used with Tor, and it has no identities tied to central servers, so it is quite anonymous already.

It's still possible that your platform offers a bit more like that, but then it would be interesting to know on what exactly it improves. And it looks like it's more monolithic than Value4Value.

And you've still not answered the question about the underlying technology for the "instant" transfers.

In the case of the Lightning Network, there are three separate structures: you, the means of payment transfer, and the organisation. In my network, it is a single structure, but no one knows who is who.

Again you make assumptions about Lightning which aren't true. Lightning itself doesn't need an "organization". This is only the case if you use Lightning in a standard eCommerce system, where you indeed pay to an "organization". But Lightning "as such" does not need that at all.

I'm becoming very skeptical of this "project", sorry.

And finally: ‘In Lightning, Bitcoin acts as a transport for fiat money.’

Lightning:

- fixes value outside the blockchain

- returns ‘balance’ accounting

- makes BTC a unit of account, not truth

Satoshi did:

BTC = truth

BTC = final state

We speak different languages: I speak the language of total cypherpunk and crypto-anarchist, you speak the language of centralised structures. You view Bitcoin as a means of earning money and a means from the illegal segment, I view Bitcoin as the lifeblood of a decentralised and anonymous global body.

All ‘decentralised systems’ such as NOSTR or Lightning Network or other Bitcoin transport protocols are partially centralised and form ‘islands of influence’ on the rest of the structure, not to mention the fact that almost all of them contradict Satoshi's original ideology. Before arguing with me, I would advise you to reread all of Satoshi's manifestos. Maybe then you will understand why any interaction between Bitcoin and fiat currency is a disaster.

[Cryptoblck]

In the lightning network structure, when paying with Bitcoin, you are tied to the value of a particular product in relation to fiat (usd/cad/eur..). That is, if you buy something for 0.001 Bitcoin and it costs $200, you convert $200 into Bitcoin and make the payment.

That is not true. There may be platforms that use Lightning in that way, but the "standard" way of using Lightning does not need any fiat intermediation.

Also, in this network, everyone can be a content creator, sell something for bitcoins, or generate content for which you will receive a portion of bitcoins.

Just this kind of use case has also been explored with Lightning as well, often in conjunction with Nostr (a decentralized messaging protocol). See the Value4Value community as an example. Nostr can also be used with Tor, and it has no identities tied to central servers, so it is quite anonymous already.

It's still possible that your platform offers a bit more like that, but then it would be interesting to know on what exactly it improves. And it looks like it's more monolithic than Value4Value.

And you've still not answered the question about the underlying technology for the "instant" transfers.

In the case of the Lightning Network, there are three separate structures: you, the means of payment transfer, and the organisation. In my network, it is a single structure, but no one knows who is who.

Again you make assumptions about Lightning which aren't true. Lightning itself doesn't need an "organization". This is only the case if you use Lightning in a standard eCommerce system, where you indeed pay to an "organization". But Lightning "as such" does not need that at all.

I'm becoming very skeptical of this "project", sorry.

Another important point is that no shop or business is a Lightning Network node. A shop or business is only a recipient of Bitcoin without participating in the distributed structure, which again makes Bitcoin dependent on the global economy, something Satoshi opposed.

And no NOSTR will help until every shop and every company becomes a physical node of ‘Cryptoblocks.’ It's like Walmart becoming a miner in the blockchain and confirming transactions while acting as a node. Until that happens, throw your protocols in the bin and give up your status as a ‘decentralisation maximalist.’ I am tougher in communication than the Nakamoto project.

[MainIbem]

It's a nice initiative but one of the reasons why Bitcoin is yet to serve as a perfect alternative for marketers and businesses is because of it's volatile nature and since it's not stable marketer prefer using fiat or stable coins since the price of their goods is fixed and won't warrant them to change the price of their goods every now and then. My question is, how do your service tend to handle the volatility of Bitcoin, since your target users seems to be marketers and business owner?