Account selling is allowed but merit buying isn’t allowed

[Hazink]

Is it not time for these rule to be updated? 

18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged.

The rules were made based on the old days of the forum before the merit system was introduced and then the new rules which includes merit system says 👇👇👇

Can I sell merit?

Selling merit is disallowed.

If we go to the Invite and account In section you will notice most of the accounts up for sale or already sold out are old accounts created before the merit system was introduced. 

But what happens if accounts which are newly created after the merit system are brought up for selling? Does that not contradict the no-selling merit rules and account buying being allowed? If a user can just create an account, feed it with enough merit and sell it out, is that not the same thing as selling merit directly?.

Account selling is frowned upon, but it's allowed. Those caught selling accounts or sold accounts caught either get a neutral or red tag. How about disabling the account selling rules completely in order to protect and promote the no-merit selling rules?

This topic was inspired after revisiting the invites and account section through this thread. 

[JeromeTash]

It would only work if those caught selling merit got punished like (deleting all the abused merit or reducing the abusing account rank) but I think this is something the admin and moderators don't want to waste time on. It would create more work for them and more chaos all together, that's why you don't see them bother so much with cases of merit abuse.

DT members can anyway Identify those involved in account trading and sometimes merit abuse and tag them accordingly. I personally don't think it's much of a deal to an extent that the forum administration has to start moderating merit distribution.

[Churchillvv]

I would agree with you to an extent because why would account selling be allowed yet frowned upon is that very confusing yet with the allowances we have a good team of people hurting down change of hand accounts and they getting tagged.

It’s just like saying “steal but don’t get caught in the act because it’s bad only when caught and slightly punishable”

But regardless even if theymos reform all the in other to avoid abuse, abusers will remain abusers.

[Hazink]

…I personally don't think it's much of a deal to an extent that the forum administration has to start moderating merit distribution.

I'm not suggesting that the forum moderator or the administrator moderate and control how merit is being distributed. I'm only saying the part of the forum rules which allows the selling of forum accounts should be modified as it could be considered as a loophole in the merit selling rules which the forum forbids.  

Selling of Bitcointalk accounts should be marked as disallowed and not half way allowed, which is exactly what frowned-upon means.

[Mrbluntzy]

The last part of the rule about account selling says "account selling is discouraged" While the rule about smerit selling says "merit selling is disallowed" These two rules works cooperatively, anyone caught selling smerits will be tagged for disobeying the forum rules, while if someone still farm an account and sell it out, it will still be tagged natural or red as account changed hands.

Whether the rule of selling account is amended to state that "account selling is disallowed" (Which is what you are implying), the punishment of any one caught buying or selling merits will not still change.  So, which ever way, the person that bought or sold account, and the person that bought or sold smerits will receive their respective deserving tags from DT members.

[noorman0]

-snip-
But what happens if accounts which are newly created after the merit system are brought up for selling? Does that not contradict the no-selling merit rules and account buying being allowed? If a user can just create an account, feed it with enough merit and sell it out, is that not the same thing as selling merit directly?.

It's not the same; every time you want to purchase another merit, you have to buy another account. It doesn't affect previously purchased accounts.
When merits were first introduced, all existing members were airdropped merits according to their rank at the time, and account sales were still ongoing. Essentially, they were offering high-ranking accounts, not merits.

[Floczy]

Is it not time for these rule to be updated? 

18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged.

When I first read this rules, I have subjective interpretation to it. Account sales are allowed, which can be any account (excluding forum account).
I may be foolish, but I'm not. Provided that, I'm trying to avoid any wrong doing in the forum, that doesn't sits well with everyone.
Selling of forum account, undermines the effort of members that genuinely ranked up as expected over the years.

[AakZaki]

-snip-
But what happens if accounts which are newly created after the merit system are brought up for selling? Does that not contradict the no-selling merit rules and account buying being allowed? If a user can just create an account, feed it with enough merit and sell it out, is that not the same thing as selling merit directly?.

It's not the same; every time you want to purchase another merit, you have to buy another account. It doesn't affect previously purchased accounts.
When merits were first introduced, all existing members were airdropped merits according to their rank at the time, and account sales were still ongoing. Essentially, they were offering high-ranking accounts, not merits.

What the OP means is when an old user creates a new account, then sends merit to that new account and later sells it.
At present, this practice is still widespread, where old users buy accounts, whether high-rank or low-rank accounts (Newbie excluded). Considering the large number of campaigns available, this allows the account buyers to commit fraud in campaigns.

Currently buying accounts is not merely because someone does not have an account, but because of the greed of old users who want to participate in many campaigns at the same time. This case has actually been proven many times on the Reputation board, where many linked accounts were found, one of the causes being the account trading itself.

[SatoPrincess]

Selling of forum account, undermines the effort of members that genuinely ranked up as expected over the years.

The main problem is that when an account is sold, the new owner presumes the identity of the original account owner including trust, reputation, and rank. It’s easy for bought accounts to scam because they have nothing to lose.

[Vod]

DT members can anyway Identify those involved in account trading and sometimes merit abuse and tag them accordingly. I personally don't think it's much of a deal to an extent that the forum administration has to start moderating merit distribution.

They can, but would they dare?    Merit has lost its initial reason; to identify meritable posts.   I read them everyday but can't merit them because smerits are not distributed.  :/

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

Is it not time for these rule to be updated? 

18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged.

The rules were made based on the old days of the forum before the merit system was introduced and then the new rules which includes merit system says 👇👇👇

Can I sell merit?

Selling merit is disallowed.

Update or not, it's not important.

Even it is disallowed, it's hard to find enough evidence to link accounts that have merit transactions with each other. That makes merit system is like a failure recent years and if you change the rule to Selling merit is prohibited, accounts with that activity will be banned, for example, you will need to find a lot of information for your accusation against any account.

Even it is changed to merit selling is allowed, the community will continue to find abused cases and tag them.
You can see merit transactions are suspicious but to conclude they are bought merits, you can not have any evidence for that.

They can exchange, buy merits and rank up, but their quality shows in their posts, and it is easily to assessed.

[lovesmayfamilis]

OP, firstly, could you show me what rule has been changed in recent years? That's right, none. There's a problem with the use of AI in posts. Are there any changes to the rules regarding prohibiting or allowing the use of AI? No. The community itself condemns people who resort to AI. Likewise, is there a direct ban on plagiarism? Review the topic and see if all accounts are banned? Everything is reviewed on a per-account basis.

Likewise, purchased accounts, if detected, will receive a corresponding tag: some will receive a red tag, some a neutral one, and the particularly cunning ones will receive nothing.

Therefore, rule changes are a long-standing and unworkable system. Anything the community condemns will inevitably receive a response when detected. Anyone who thinks they're smarter than everyone else needs to know this.

[FirmWars]

Selling of Bitcointalk accounts should be marked as disallowed and not half way allowed, which is exactly what frowned-upon means.

I agree with this, although whether the change on rule is made or not, from the discussions going on in the forum, people should know that account selling is also disallowed just as merit selling is not allowed because if observed that the account was sold, the account will receive a red tag from DT member that confirms the account to not belong to the true owner. If the forum  admin can change the rule to be specific in kicking against selling of account, that will be very clear.

[Zoomic]

Your submissions actually make sense, but here is the catch;
Theymos doesn't want to make a rule against what he and the forum cannot directly control. For instance;
*There is no scam moderation - Because it's difficult to prove someone is or not a scammer
*If selling of account is totally prohibited - how will you know that an account was traded hence it can be done off forum.
*Selling of merit rule will still stand because it is first directly applied to merit sources.
No system is 100% perfect. So, let's not create extra job for moderators.

[EarnOnVictor]

But what happens if accounts which are newly created after the merit system are brought up for selling? Does that not contradict the no-selling merit rules and account buying being allowed? If a user can just create an account, feed it with enough merit and sell it out, is that not the same thing as selling merit directly?.

You think too much on this. First, the account buying/selling and merit buying/selling are not the same thing, so I don't know why you are linking them together. Besides, both are being frowned at on the forum, so they are not welcome here, and if they are not welcomed here, why stressing?

As for buying of merits, it's more unjust because it will hack the account growth in the buyer's favour. But for account buying, it's not automatically in the buyer's favour, because the new personality handling the account could either promote it or demote it, which depends on the quality of post it generates.

[ercewubam]

Merit has lost its initial reason; to identify meritable posts.

It was always just an anti-spam tool. Just when there were less merits in circulation, some people thought, that it is about finding "good" posts, or "posts you agree with". But it was simply not the case.

It is a similar mistake, as if someone would think, that Bitcoin transactions are free, because they were in 2009. It is not the case, because the system is not designed in this way. And the same with merits: they are needed only to filter spam, and not to reward great posts.

Sending merit is a simple signal: "this post is not a spam". Nothing more, nothing less.

I read them everyday but can't merit them because smerits are not distributed.

I can see the opposite problem: there are too many merits in circulation, and the only way to burn them, is to send them to old, banned accounts, like satoshi.

[YOSHIE]

Account selling is frowned upon, but it's allowed. Those caught selling accounts or sold accounts caught either get a neutral or red tag. How about disabling the account selling rules completely in order to protect and promote the no-merit selling rules?

In my opinion, I consider ACCOUNT sellers to be the most dangerous disease and if I find it and can reveal it I will destroy it, it's up to the rules whether to go back and forth or go around it.

I once revealed a case of selling an account, from the story of the buyer, he bought a $350 Hero position account, two months later the buyer was accused by the seller of the account being hacked, Long story short, the account that was purchased was damaged and the buyer's money was lost, isn't that a barbaric act for those who suffer losses?

For me the basic rules are correct, regardless of whether they have achievements or not, selling an account is considered fraud and harms other people.

[Rikafip]

 Merit has lost its initial reason; to identify meritable posts.   I read them everyday but can't merit them because smerits are not distributed.  :/

Maybe you should apply for a merit source spot? 

It was always just an anti-spam tool. Just when there were less merits in circulation, some people thought, that it is about finding "good" posts, or "posts you agree with". But it was simply not the case.

The goal was to make it very hard for shitposters to reach higher ranks, which I think may be failing at the moment, considering how many of them have managed to achieve that.

[ABCbits]

Account selling is frowned upon, but it's allowed. Those caught selling accounts or sold accounts caught either get a neutral or red tag. How about disabling the account selling rules completely in order to protect and promote the no-merit selling rules?

I would suggest the opposite, no longer disallow selling merit since i doubt moderator would actually investigate such action. Although it should be remain disallowed for all merit source.

It was always just an anti-spam tool. Just when there were less merits in circulation, some people thought, that it is about finding "good" posts, or "posts you agree with". But it was simply not the case.

The goal was to make it very hard for shitposters to reach higher ranks, which I think may be failing at the moment, considering how many of them have managed to achieve that.

FWIW some merit source are being generous and it's exploited by account farmer/spammer. In addition, AFAIK theymos almost never remove such merit source either.

[Rikafip]

FWIW some merit source are being generous and it's exploited by account farmer/spammer. In addition, AFAIK theymos almost never remove such merit source either.

This "generosity" might be caused by the smaller number of quality members and therefore, fewer quality posts. So, if you want to spend your monthly merit allowance you have to lower your standards, which then leads to shitposters receiving enough merit to reach higher ranks.