2up scam me 500$ deposited

[acroman08]

@OP, if you are looking for other platforms to post your complaint, you could try posting on casinomeister.com or LCB.org, these two are mediator websites too. Also, if you check LCB.org, they have a 2UP.io case there that was resolved a month ago. That being said, I am not sure if they accept sportsbetting cases, but it wouldn't hurt to try.

[Zoomic]

@OP, if you are looking for other platforms to post your complaint, you could try posting on casinomeister.com or LCB.org, these two are mediator websites too. Also, if you check LCB.org, they have a 2UP.io case there that was resolved a month ago. That being said, I am not sure if they accept sportsbetting cases, but it wouldn't hurt to try.

Has the Op tried to contact the campaign manager of 2up.io - Little mouse before trying to go off forum. I believe LM has the direct contact of 2up.

If the case is not settled, the Op will continue to spam the forum. I became aware of this case through Op's post on 2UP ANN Thread.

[acroman08]

Has the Op tried to contact the campaign manager of 2up.io - Little mouse before trying to go off forum. I believe LM has the direct contact of 2up.

I don't know if the OP contacted Little Mouse, he could try. If contacting Little Mouse fails, he should proceed with the suggestion I made.

If the case is not settled, the Op will continue to spam the forum. I became aware of this case through Op's post on 2UP ANN Thread

I don't know about you, but currently I don't think the OP is spamming the forum. But yeah, he could start spamming the forum if his issue is not resolved.

[Odohu]

@OP, if you are looking for other platforms to post your complaint, you could try posting on casinomeister.com or LCB.org, these two are mediator websites too. Also, if you check LCB.org, they have a 2UP.io case there that was resolved a month ago. That being said, I am not sure if they accept sportsbetting cases, but it wouldn't hurt to try.

Has the Op tried to contact the campaign manager of 2up.io - Little mouse before trying to go off forum. I believe LM has the direct contact of 2up.

If the case is not settled, the Op will continue to spam the forum. I became aware of this case through Op's post on 2UP ANN Thread.

I don't know if contacting Little Mouse will help because he is not part of the team and the representative of 2UP.io that is in communication with LM may not be the right person to contact for such issue, probably someone in the marketing department and not CS. The best and reliable approach is to contact support via live chat and email and if the company did not respond through those channels, then there is a major problem with the platform.

[pawel7777]

So if I understand the situation correctly:
- OP was arbitrage betting
- 2UP (like many other sites) say to have rules against arbitrage betting (as per the snippet from the customer service representative's response) but the actual Terms of Service do not seem to explicitly mention arbitrage being disallowed.
- 2UP blocked his account and seized all his funds.

This is a bit of a sticky one. As far as I know, arbitrage betting would not fall under the definition of fraud and it's definitely not considered a criminal activity in any jurisdiction, so I'm not sure what actual term of service would be breached here. Even if there is a breach in T&Cs, seizing all the assets without giving a player a chance to dispute could be seen as unlawful in many jurisdictions (while others may allow it, if the seizure is considered justified and is proportionate to the damage caused).
On the other hand, it's a sort of general knowledge that most of sport betting sites have restrictions against arbitrage, so it shouldn't be that much of a surprise.

If the site had arbitrage betting mentioned in its Terms of Service, I would be siding with the casino, but they don't, so we have a bit of a gray area here.
Perhaps a good solution would be for 2UP to allow the OP to withdraw his deposit but not the winnings (I assume the arbitrage is the only accusation here and no other T&Cs have been broken). Updating Terms and Conditions to explicitly mention arbitrage is probably a good move too. Referring only to "dishonest or improper activity" is way too broad and open to interpretation.

[_BlackStar]

If the site had arbitrage betting mentioned in its Terms of Service, I would be siding with the casino, but they don't, so we have a bit of a gray area here.
Perhaps a good solution would be for 2UP to allow the OP to withdraw his deposit but not the winnings (I assume the arbitrage is the only accusation here and no other T&Cs have been broken). Updating Terms and Conditions to explicitly mention arbitrage is probably a good move too. Referring only to "dishonest or improper activity" is way too broad and open to interpretation.

If that's the case - then I agree with your suggestion.
The OP is entitled to get their deposit back without their winnings – that seems fair enough instead of confiscating everything. However, I also want to hear the results of the investigation conducted by the casino into this matter - but yes, the terms and conditions should be more specific if they prohibit arbitrage betting.

[gaynellehalsey]

So if I understand the situation correctly:
- OP was arbitrage betting
- 2UP (like many other sites) say to have rules against arbitrage betting (as per the snippet from the customer service representative's response) but the actual Terms of Service do not seem to explicitly mention arbitrage being disallowed.
- 2UP blocked his account and seized all his funds.

This is a bit of a sticky one. As far as I know, arbitrage betting would not fall under the definition of fraud and it's definitely not considered a criminal activity in any jurisdiction, so I'm not sure what actual term of service would be breached here. Even if there is a breach in T&Cs, seizing all the assets without giving a player a chance to dispute could be seen as unlawful in many jurisdictions (while others may allow it, if the seizure is considered justified and is proportionate to the damage caused).
On the other hand, it's a sort of general knowledge that most of sport betting sites have restrictions against arbitrage, so it shouldn't be that much of a surprise.

If the site had arbitrage betting mentioned in its Terms of Service, I would be siding with the casino, but they don't, so we have a bit of a gray area here.
Perhaps a good solution would be for 2UP to allow the OP to withdraw his deposit but not the winnings (I assume the arbitrage is the only accusation here and no other T&Cs have been broken). Updating Terms and Conditions to explicitly mention arbitrage is probably a good move too. Referring only to "dishonest or improper activity" is way too broad and open to interpretation.

How do you want to prove arbitrage? Let's say you have three different providers, and the option you need is available at 2up, but you choose it because the other two providers have a limited selection. Is that called arbitrage now?

[holydarkness]

Coming here from a summon by DPD on 2up's ann [and I try my best to avoid making post and/or reply to gambling ANN threads as they're quickly flooding my "show new replies" tab with their discussion and make it harder to follow updates on SA board that I'm concentrating and dwelling in].

OP, I've been reading your thread silently from uhh... I think after christmas, and wanted to let it sit a bit and only start trying to bridge after the whole ho-ho-ho season ended [plus life give me one final surprise to close 2025 that take most of my IRL time] because of the holidays and all. Uhh, I'll try to get to be acquainted with 2up's representative come Monday, if you don't mind.

[pawel7777]

How do you want to prove arbitrage? Let's say you have three different providers, and the option you need is available at 2up, but you choose it because the other two providers have a limited selection. Is that called arbitrage now?

I'm not a side in this dispute, so I don't have to prove anything.
Funny how you're not denying arbitrage betting but instead just saying it cannot be 100% proven. You're right, but we're not in the court of justice.
As they say: If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it’s probably a duck. As you say, you just registered to the site, made some bets, ALL of which were placed on events with two outcomes (no option for a draw or draw very unlikely), all of them were niche events from different exotic leagues, all of them had random (not round) amounts (and higher than what you would expect casual players to betting on such events), and all of them were placed in a short time-span.
Casinos have algorithms helping them detect arbitrage betting but in this case anyone can see what is going on from your own snippet alone.

Again, arbitrage is not illegal and many players may not even be aware that casinos frown upon such activity, so you could make a case here. But it's going to be hard to earn any sympathy from the community if you want to go into a full denial.

So let me ask you straight: Have you engaged in arbitrage trading or not?

[gaynellehalsey]

How do you want to prove arbitrage? Let's say you have three different providers, and the option you need is available at 2up, but you choose it because the other two providers have a limited selection. Is that called arbitrage now?

I'm not a side in this dispute, so I don't have to prove anything.
Funny how you're not denying arbitrage betting but instead just saying it cannot be 100% proven. You're right, but we're not in the court of justice.
As they say: If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it’s probably a duck. As you say, you just registered to the site, made some bets, ALL of which were placed on events with two outcomes (no option for a draw or draw very unlikely), all of them were niche events from different exotic leagues, all of them had random (not round) amounts (and higher than what you would expect casual players to betting on such events), and all of them were placed in a short time-span.
Casinos have algorithms helping them detect arbitrage betting but in this case anyone can see what is going on from your own snippet alone.

Again, arbitrage is not illegal and many players may not even be aware that casinos frown upon such activity, so you could make a case here. But it's going to be hard to earn any sympathy from the community if you want to go into a full denial.

So let me ask you straight: Have you engaged in arbitrage trading or not?

How will all these facts help you find arbitrage? I haven't done any arbitrage, there are no exotic leagues there, at least two matches were made on the major volleyball league, one of which lost, the bets were not made within a short period of time, four bets were made on December 17th, one bet was made on December 18th, and two bets were made on December 23rd. Instead of arguing with me, you should have called the boss from your 2up office a long time ago.

[DGUDGUDGU]

I'm not a side in this dispute, so I don't have to prove anything.
Funny how you're not denying arbitrage betting but instead just saying it cannot be 100% proven. You're right, but we're not in the court of justice.
As they say: If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it’s probably a duck. As you say, you just registered to the site, made some bets, ALL of which were placed on events with two outcomes (no option for a draw or draw very unlikely), all of them were niche events from different exotic leagues, all of them had random (not round) amounts (and higher than what you would expect casual players to betting on such events), and all of them were placed in a short time-span.
Casinos have algorithms helping them detect arbitrage betting but in this case anyone can see what is going on from your own snippet alone.

Again, arbitrage is not illegal and many players may not even be aware that casinos frown upon such activity, so you could make a case here. But it's going to be hard to earn any sympathy from the community if you want to go into a full denial.

So let me ask you straight: Have you engaged in arbitrage trading or not?

You obviously are on a side in this dispute, with your 2up banner and stupid questions.
Casinos do not have algorithms that can detect arbitrage, there is legitimately no way for them to see if a customer is arbing.
I worked for a sportsbook for multiple years and bet for a living, I understand this business 100x better than you do.

They CAN detect if a customer beat their closing line and made a valuable bet, but then that's basically saying "do not try beat our lines at all"
Which is absolutely insane, losing/rec customers can make +ev bets by accident over a short period of time and get funds confiscated for this.

Also to counter a previous point you made, most sportsbooks DO NOT confiscate for arbitrage/value betting.
There is a small trend of new opening cryptobooks having it in their terms & conditions, XYES, betpanda, winna being examples of others that have this terrible business practice.

98%+ of betting sites will pay winners, including pretty much every single non crypto legal book.
I hate people on this forum

[pawel7777]

OK. I might have been wrong in my assessment of OP's situation.
I didn't read all the posts in this thread and assumed arbitrage, as that is what it initially appeared to be to me. But if those irregular amounts were indeed maximum bets, then I could've been wrong.

As I said before, even if it was arbitrage, I think it would be right or 2UP to return the OP his deposit. If it wasn't an arbitrage and the OP was just placing +EV bets, he should get back his deposit + winnings.

It would be nice if any 2UP representative responded and clarified on the issue. They had one accusation resolved not too long ago with a happy ending: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5565728.0 so hopefully this one will get sorted too. Fingers crossed.

ps. I may be renting my signature space, but that doesn't mean I shill for advertisers (although it's hard to deny some people get carried away out of fear of losing an income stream).