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Author Topic: We Are Building Walls While They Build Dependence  (Read 277 times)
davis196
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January 05, 2026, 07:49:19 AM
 #21

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What about building skills that no government is able to tax? Creating Value that does not require permission? Thinking in ways that survive in changing systems.

I wonder how that would work? Skills aren't taxed. The income you have generated by using your skills is taxed.
Any income or profit can get taxed. If you don't want to pay taxes there are only two options.
1.Tax evasion(which is a crime, if you get caught you will get punished). 2.Just live in poverty and don't generate any substantial amount of money. In many countries low income(below the poverty line) is tax free. Living in poverty really sucks, but you won't have to pay taxes and you won't be "a slave to the government". "Flying under the radar" is the best possible option. Just try to stay in the shadows and don't raise suspicion. I'm pretty sure that the "tariffs and sanctions" era of the global economy will be over after several years.


 
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January 05, 2026, 03:59:31 PM
 #22

I'm pretty sure that the "tariffs and sanctions" era of the global economy will be over after several years.
Can it really be over someday, thinking deep about it lands me with the conclusion that it could only continue to get worsen as the years goes. More taxes of different kinds would be introduced as it done today, even the low income earners who weren't taxed in many countries are now taxed because the government needs more money to cover their waste expenses on governance that doesn't change or directly affects the lives of the citizens but rather makes lives more difficult economically for all class. We just have to accept where we're now and be prepared for what's about to come, which can't be anything better.

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January 05, 2026, 08:30:58 PM
 #23

Quote
What about building skills that no government is able to tax? Creating Value that does not require permission? Thinking in ways that survive in changing systems.

I wonder how that would work? Skills aren't taxed. The income you have generated by using your skills is taxed.
Any income or profit can get taxed. If you don't want to pay taxes there are only two options.
1.Tax evasion(which is a crime, if you get caught you will get punished). 2.Just live in poverty and don't generate any substantial amount of money. In many countries low income(below the poverty line) is tax free. Living in poverty really sucks, but you won't have to pay taxes and you won't be "a slave to the government". "Flying under the radar" is the best possible option. Just try to stay in the shadows and don't raise suspicion. I'm pretty sure that the "tariffs and sanctions" era of the global economy will be over after several years.


You raised a very solid point and give a excellent example of tax to explain how making money in legal way is important. And we don't ask to pay taxed to building our personality in a positive way with learning useful skills. Skills itself are never taxed but the income that can be generated through it is demanding to pay tax. So we should pay taxes in a legal way and if we avoiding tax by hiding our resources of income is not a good option. Many skills like creativity and digital skills has more security and stability. So we should be trying to maintain the system by involving in it and avoid to escape the system. So the learning point is that actual freedom is not comes by hiding taxes but its comes with strong skills.

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January 05, 2026, 09:02:53 PM
 #24

While liberalism of course worked out for select few, there is a reason why it is not rampant and unregulated. You need regulations and without them and government interference with business world, we would have child labour once more.

People need to remember that, when child labour was a thing, and government wanted to ban it, business owners went on big lobbying effort and bribed as many politicians as much money as possible to keep working children for cheap. That may sound awful to you now, but believe me, that would repeat again or similar stuff would repeat again if you do not put regulations.

You think minimum wage is for fun? If there were no minimum wage, the entire nations salary averages would be lower by now.
You're defending something already lost. Workers need protection from exploitation, yes, obviously, nobody serious argues against that. But your defense of that thing doesn't exist in the form that you believe it does anymore.

Child labor laws worked because they had a specific enemy. Factory owners. Specific people making specific decisions to exploit specific children. You could point at them. You would be able to organize against them. You could win.

Who do you point at now?

When your wages are flat but everything costs more, who was working you over? The government that printed out money? The corporations that increased prices? The other country that did restrict trade? All of them? None of them specifically?

The exploitation became institutionalized. Diffused. We continue to behave as government and corporations are separate entities opposed. Yet, they haven't been so for a long time. Trade policy is scribbled by corporate lobbyists. Regulations get caught in the net of industry they're supposed to be regulating. The revolving door between government and business is so smooth nowadays it's almost just one door.

When you say we need government to protect us from corporations. Which government?



The world needs a leader who will work for the freedom of the people instead of influencing them, who will work to protect their rights and help them live properly. Is there such a leader in the world now? No, I don't think there is any leader who has left his people free.

Governments have created country borders so that they can rule the country, control the price of goods, control taxes and, if necessary, loot the people's money. When the borders of countries are broken, it will not be easy for any leader to dominate the people.
What is really happening with weakening borders? I look at the internet. No borders there. And yet we have more concentrated power than we have ever had before. A few companies have control of what billions see, think and buy. They do not need borders. They need networks. So perhaps it is not borders per se that are the problem but what it is that we endeavor to control through borders. A border can be protective or it can be a prisoner-making wall. The same fence keeps danger out and keeps you in. Someone always has the key and that someone is never neutral.

The leader you describe, the leader who works for freedom, must be impossible. Because, as long as someone has power to protect your rights, they have power to take them too. This is the paradox. We want somebody strong enough to defend us but not strong enough to control us. History shows this balance almost never to hold.



It seems like corporatism is the unavoidable peak of capitalism and the effects of it are on show in America right now, everywhere you look it seems companies are consolidating for their own benefit, squeeze profits for the benefit of a few and abuse their position to the max. Regulated capitalism is the ideal scenario, but it relies on very intelligent politicians that can build rules that run a fine balance between protecting the public and rewarding business owners, while keeping all transactions as transparent as possible. Considering the grade of politicians that get in to power these days, using highly negative and destructive tactics, it seems that regulated capitalism is very hard to achieve - corporatism is always trying to degrade it after all, because it wants higher profits and lower pushback from laws. Globalization has actually brought huge benefits to the world, but it also creates dependencies that can be detrimental - for example the inability to stand up to countries that create a stranglehold on certain materials or products.
Regulated capitalism is the ideal but it requires the intelligence and integrity of the people doing the regulating. And as you said, the quality of those people is continuing to decline. But I wonder if there is something deeper going on that makes this something inevitable and not just unfortunate. The issue with corporatism is that it alters the structure of incentives for all operating within the system. If you are a politician, and corporations are funding your campaigns, your intelligence gets pointed in the wrong direction. You get very smart about justifying their interests rather than protecting the public. The system does not need stupid politicians. It needs captured ones. And capture is easier than we care to admit.



We spend too much time worrying about money and prices and economic systems. But, how much of our lives are we in control of? 
In a world living under the capitalisme system, what do you expect? What do you expect the culture to be based on when money becomes the biggest interest of everybody everywhere in the planet? People commit crimes for few pennies and this is what reveals the true face of capitalism-imperialism. What we see in everyday life is the same we see between big powers who fight against each others just for the materialist interests.
If money is the greatest interest everywhere, then money is also the greatest power everywhere. Which means whichever people control the money control everything else. And right now, who controls the money? Governments and central banks. Capitalism-imperialism is in fact the antithesis of free markets. Real capitalism would mean I can trade with anyone anywhere without permission. But that is not what we have. We have governments deciding who can trade with who. We have sanctions and tariffs and currency controls. We have central banks creating money and setting interest rates.

I agree that is terrible, people who commit crimes for pennies. But is that due to too much capitalism or too little? Because in a truly free system, those pennies wouldn't lose value every year through inflation. In a truly free system, people could freely work across borders without government permission. In a truly free system there would be no monopoly on money itself.



"Wanderer above the Sea of Fog" by Caspar David Friedrich (1818)

Interesting choice. This painting asks a lot of questions... Somehow, I think it's more about inner questions, the question about inner life. And that can go in many ways... psychological & philosophical. Maybe I am completely wrong, I just got interested... Your topic and picture reminded me of a photo I saw a long time ago:


Indian viewing railroad from top of Palisades. 435 miles from Sacramento

But, how much of our lives are we in control of?

It's a tricky question... The answer depends on many factors. I guess many of us control very little of the world around us, but we can control ourselves... our actions & reactions. 

It reminds me of the old idea that freedom is not a matter of changing circumstances but changing relationship to circumstances. The railroad comes whether we want it or not. But we choose how we stand through being watching it. Reaction is what happens to us. Action is what we choose. Most people experience living completely in the reaction mode now. The news occurs and they react. Prices change and they react. Governments make decisions and they make reactions. Exhausting since reaction never stops. There is always something new that requires an answer.

 
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January 05, 2026, 10:10:41 PM
 #25

This is necessary for government to have control over their Nations because the world we find ourselves is a complex place and so any government that is really serious about not only protecting their interest but also  protecting their citizens from receiving everything that is coming into their borders will take seriously. The primary duty of every responsible government is protection of live and property this means that government should protect everything about the citizens including what the citizens buys, trades on and even eats so I don't see anything wrong with government trying to regulate what the citizens do with the kinds of things that comes into the country.



The world we find ourselves is a market place and so allot of things goes on and any responsible government will take their citizens more important than any other thing so it better that government builds Walls that will protect their citizens than allowing foreign interest to take over their country which will not be good for them.



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January 05, 2026, 10:45:52 PM
 #26

This is necessary for government to have control over their Nations because the world we find ourselves is a complex place and so any government that is really serious about not only protecting their interest but also  protecting their citizens from receiving everything that is coming into their borders will take seriously. The primary duty of every responsible government is protection of live and property this means that government should protect everything about the citizens including what the citizens buys, trades on and even eats so I don't see anything wrong with government trying to regulate what the citizens do with the kinds of things that comes into the country.



The world we find ourselves is a market place and so allot of things goes on and any responsible government will take their citizens more important than any other thing so it better that government builds Walls that will protect their citizens than allowing foreign interest to take over their country which will not be good for them.
Is the government actually protecting the citizens? From my observations, it seems like selfish and corrupt individuals are taking over the government, so most of the decision these government officials make are either not genuine or  a good part of their claims serve selfish purposes. Most people are actually not being protected, infact people are now protecting themselves from the government who keeps exploiting them all in the name of tax

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January 05, 2026, 11:22:58 PM
 #27

We spend too much time worrying about money and prices and economic systems. But, how much of our lives are we in control of? 
In a world living under the capitalisme system, what do you expect? What do you expect the culture to be based on when money becomes the biggest interest of everybody everywhere in the planet? People commit crimes for few pennies and this is what reveals the true face of capitalism-imperialism. What we see in everyday life is the same we see between big powers who fight against each others just for the materialist interests.
If money is the greatest interest everywhere, then money is also the greatest power everywhere. Which means whichever people control the money control everything else. And right now, who controls the money? Governments and central banks. Capitalism-imperialism is in fact the antithesis of free markets. Real capitalism would mean I can trade with anyone anywhere without permission. But that is not what we have. We have governments deciding who can trade with who. We have sanctions and tariffs and currency controls. We have central banks creating money and setting interest rates.

I agree that is terrible, people who commit crimes for pennies. But is that due to too much capitalism or too little? Because in a truly free system, those pennies wouldn't lose value every year through inflation. In a truly free system, people could freely work across borders without government permission. In a truly free system there would be no monopoly on money itself.
The experience proved that this truly free system as you describe it can't exist in a globalized world. Thore should be such major powers to decide when/where/with whom to trade because the world is divised into small countries like a puzzle. You have mentioned the the classic definition of capitalism that was built within a traditional market when the world was divided between empires ocuppying large territories. Today the image has changed and new rules had been set to update with the new world order.

I am not trying to justify the disasters happening every day because of wars and conflicts everywhere caused by the competition to control resources and money. The whole system should be changed and there are no other ways to get rid off the system of continious crisis.



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January 06, 2026, 03:02:03 PM
 #28


If money is the greatest interest everywhere, then money is also the greatest power everywhere. Which means whichever people control the money control everything else. And right now, who controls the money? Governments and central banks. Capitalism-imperialism is in fact the antithesis of free markets. Real capitalism would mean I can trade with anyone anywhere without permission. But that is not what we have. We have governments deciding who can trade with who. We have sanctions and tariffs and currency controls. We have central banks creating money and setting interest rates.

I agree that is terrible, people who commit crimes for pennies. But is that due to too much capitalism or too little? Because in a truly free system, those pennies wouldn't lose value every year through inflation. In a truly free system, people could freely work across borders without government permission. In a truly free system there would be no monopoly on money itself.


I dont think with control money printing central bank and government has absolut power due to there are beyond nation entity who forming the structure of money distribution, who decided where and how its final accumulation end. As a tools, money circulation controled by market structure and capital ownership. Central bank only provide liquidity but can not control the flow. And matter of fact its flow to asset owner pocket on the top of economic pyramid. Money is not the actual power but who control money flow structure. From existing practice we know that country/government is not strongest actor because oftenly government become guardian of ultra rich people interest.

So the real monopoly is not on money but on structure such as access to productive asset, payment platform, financial infrastrucure and global standarization. We can not conclude economic equity from international free market trade, because free market result is accumulation of wealth to the top of pyramid but they throw the risk to bottom of pyramid population. We need  figuring out solution to cut the system, so money circulating horizontally not vertically from bottom to the top.



 
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January 06, 2026, 03:30:08 PM
 #29

Paying zero tax is not possible at all because there will be hidden tax added with every purchase we do that is added because the manufacturer paid those taxes already so if we want to pay zero tax then we need to produce everything we need from the raw materials we make on our own.

The country is nothing but a social prison, and freedom is just an illusion because we can't really do whatever we want.

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January 06, 2026, 04:44:49 PM
Merited by Pearl_20 (2)
 #30

Is the government actually protecting the citizens? From my observations, it seems like selfish and corrupt individuals are taking over the government, so most of the decision these government officials make are either not genuine or  a good part of their claims serve selfish purposes. Most people are actually not being protected, infact people are now protecting themselves from the government who keeps exploiting them all in the name of tax

Are you saying this from individual perspective or from generalizing all nations. If all countries are the same when it comes to tax and protection, I don't think some certain countries are going to experience high level of migration. Let's use USA as a case study, the US might not be the best place people migrated to but it's one of the biggest countries that many go to because of jobs, due to insecurities, human right and freedom even though they make people pay high tax, you get good security from the government.

Why do many countries fear US when it comes to war, they have the resources, they have the money and they have the support from other countries, the government don't joke around when they play with thier citizens, they crushed terrorists like it's their hobby, these are what their government are ready to do for their people and this is exactly what has kept the country going and moving, despite the hard choice of tax people pay them for basic amenities.

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January 06, 2026, 06:21:12 PM
 #31

We spend too much time worrying about money and prices and economic systems. But, how much of our lives are we in control of? 
I have some good level of control over my life now by being self-employed, I neither work for the government nor for any private individual actively. I love deciding what I do and when it is okay and practical to do such and not being controlled against my will. It helps me plan properly and be more productive and efficient.

There are things we cannot control, which are things the government decide upon, if you want to show your disapproval, they would enact a law and make your disapproval a criminal offense. It would be very important if the youths are independent and self-sufficient so that the corrupt government would stop exploiting them.

I love remote work, even if my government manipulates the country, I keep getting funded from my proceeds of working for other companies beyond their control.

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January 06, 2026, 08:36:40 PM
 #32

With the obvious improvements on AI, if you can turn your job into something that will be ok with AI then you are going to profit. Not every job can use AI, like mine can't use AI and that is why I can't use it, but if yours can be turned into AI then do it, learn the skills needed.

This way, you can live anywhere you want and you are going to get the best out of it. My friend is a coder for example, and ever since all of this AI stuff started a few years ago, he has been learning and getting better at it. He now builds stuff just with AI and his skills, things he couldn't do in months, became tasks he can do in weeks. He is getting more jobs for cheaper so he works the same but he makes more money nowadays.

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