Changing your tax residency as a countermeasure against DAC8

[serveria.com]

I wonder if you EU guys are planning to counteract DAC8 reporting? If yes - how? Cold wallets, company accounts, changing tax residency to UAE or similar tax-free jurisdiction?     

[Ambatman]

I read somewhere that large amount from self hosted wallet should be reported
And using a non custodial wallet changes nothing if the user still sends to CEX for exchange.
And on jurisdictions many countries are joining in on the tax regulation method
Made a topic about it here KYC Requirement Getting Stricter Under the umbrella Of Tax

My country has started going deeper into tax especially on cryptocurrency
Having been using a non custodial wallet before but adding a company account to it now.


But the truth is with the way things are going they might go deeper into cold wallets.

[serveria.com]

But the truth is with the way things are going they might go deeper into cold wallets.

They can and they will. Many governments are running out of money to finance wars and other bullshit. So I guess you just have to choose the less greedy tax residence. 

[Lucius]

~snip~
But the truth is with the way things are going they might go deeper into cold wallets.

How do you think any government would come into possession of anything it doesn't even know exists? I did not buy my coins through CEXs, nor did I officially state anywhere that I own cryptocurrencies or any wallet for them.

There are always ways to stay under the radar, unless you're stupid enough to buy luxury cars, houses, and the like without proof of legal income.

[rat03gopoh]

They can and they will. Many governments are running out of money to finance wars and other bullshit. So I guess you just have to choose the less greedy tax residence. 

If it's still on the list of 48 countries that are bound by it, it's not a form of counteract, by the way. Just choose a jurisdiction that doesn't cooperate with data exchange, even if there are potential future consequences, such as narrowing your financial activity space.

The era of "privacy without consequences" in crypto for EU users is legally over. The best strategy is to adapt to compliance, not fight a system supported by over 40% of CARF members are developed countries.

[slapper]

UAE only works if you're willing to actually move your life there. Not just paperwork. Your actual life.

Tax residency isn't a form that you complete anymore. You can't just rent a place in Dubai and live in Amsterdam. That game is over.

Cold wallets provide you privacy until you need not to have privacy. Eventually you need fiat or you need to use a service which requires KYC. Then it all gets reported anyway but later. You're deferring the problem and not solving it.

What annoys me about DAC8 isn't so much the reporting as it is. It's that it assumes that everyone using crypto is avoiding taxes. Some people simply want privacy for normal reasons. But the system doesn't care a damn about the difference. Privacy is evasion to them and their eyes.

Company accounts could work but you need substance. Real employees Real operations Real business purpose. Shell companies are immediately flagged. And if you're the good guy living in EU, good luck arguing you don't owe taxes there.

The bigger thing is this whole system is in favor of people with money. If you can afford lawyers and accountants and actually relocating, you have your options. Everybody else just gets squeezed.

[serveria.com]

~snip~
But the truth is with the way things are going they might go deeper into cold wallets.

How do you think any government would come into possession of anything it doesn't even know exists? I did not buy my coins through CEXs, nor did I officially state anywhere that I own cryptocurrencies or any wallet for them.

At some point you'll want to move your coins to an exchange or convert them to fiat. Once you do it, there's no way back - your coins will be linked to you irreversibly. Keeping coins in your cold wallet forever is possible but makes it somewhat useless. 

There are always ways to stay under the radar, unless you're stupid enough to buy luxury cars, houses, and the like without proof of legal income.

Buying luxury stuff without proof of legal income is stupid. But keeping your coins in a cold wallet without any possibility to use them is stupid as well. Why not have the best of both worlds and enjoy luxury things while staying invisible to tax office guys? 

[Ambatman]

How do you think any government would come into possession of anything it doesn't even know exists? I did not buy my coins through CEXs, nor did I officially state anywhere that I own cryptocurrencies or any wallet for them.

I read somewhere hopefully I'm not misquoting that a law would be implemented
Where CEX or something can withhold any funds that hasn't been moved in a period of 3-4 years.
Just like the tag for tainted was supposedly created
Coins that haven't moved or doesn't have owners maybe classified as such.
Likely worse case scenario

At some point you'll want to move your coins to an exchange or convert them to fiat. Once you do it, there's no way back - your coins will be linked to you irreversibly. Keeping coins in your cold wallet forever is possible but makes it somewhat useless. 

Hence why authority don't like monero
It can help with this
And one don't need to convert to Fiat
Just find someone that needs monero and has what you want
Raw P2P.
But that's harder than it looks on paper.

[Fortify]

I wonder if you EU guys are planning to counteract DAC8 reporting? If yes - how? Cold wallets, company accounts, changing tax residency to UAE or similar tax-free jurisdiction?     

It sounds like really good idea, but only a small percentage of people here would have the means to qualify, aka enough money, to make this a possibility or even worthwhile proposition. At that level many people would also be using professional tax planners and experts who might be able to navigate the ever changing landscape as it relates to crypto regulation. There may not even be a need to leave the EU, you could go residency shopping within it and potentially seek to get a secondary citizenship. Places like the UAE sound and look like a haven, but you need to have a lot of money to have any kind of privileged life over there as a lot of the country in built around fakeness and a mirage.

[Cryptomultiplier]

~snip~
But the truth is with the way things are going they might go deeper into cold wallets.

How do you think any government would come into possession of anything it doesn't even know exists? I did not buy my coins through CEXs, nor did I officially state anywhere that I own cryptocurrencies or any wallet for them.

At some point you'll want to move your coins to an exchange or convert them to fiat. Once you do it, there's no way back - your coins will be linked to you irreversibly. Keeping coins in your cold wallet forever is possible but makes it somewhat useless. 

There are always ways to stay under the radar, unless you're stupid enough to buy luxury cars, houses, and the like without proof of legal income.

Buying luxury stuff without proof of legal income is stupid. But keeping your coins in a cold wallet without any possibility to use them is stupid as well. Why not have the best of both worlds and enjoy luxury things while staying invisible to tax office guys? 

In my country, crypto currency is still seen more as an asset than as a currency and that's why it is being taxed under regulatory laws currently.
Am sure other countries are doing same and since tax authorities use a sort of look-back strategy tool for audit, am sure it would be quite difficult to evade tax remittance if you have maybe lived in that country for like 5years having a period of unreported gains and you suddenly relocated to another country.

 

[Don Pedro Dinero]

I wonder if you EU guys are planning to counteract DAC8 reporting? If yes - how? Cold wallets, company accounts, changing tax residency to UAE or similar tax-free jurisdiction?     

It sounds like really good idea, but only a small percentage of people here would have the means to qualify, aka enough money, to make this a possibility or even worthwhile proposition.

Not only that. If you have children, it is more difficult to move abroad than if you are single, for example. Or if you live in a place where you have more family and great social relationships nearby.

Anyone who has been caught off guard by this has made a mistake. Having a large amount of bitcoin that you cannot justify to the authorities (even if you have done nothing wrong) is what can push you to move abroad, but the right thing to do was to prepare for years before this happened, as it was known that it would eventually happen.

[Lucius]

At some point you'll want to move your coins to an exchange or convert them to fiat. Once you do it, there's no way back - your coins will be linked to you irreversibly. Keeping coins in your cold wallet forever is possible but makes it somewhat useless. 

Do you think CEXs and bank accounts are the only way to convert BTC to fiat? There have always been ways to do it under the radar, and I have no doubt there will be in the future.

Buying luxury stuff without proof of legal income is stupid. But keeping your coins in a cold wallet without any possibility to use them is stupid as well. Why not have the best of both worlds and enjoy luxury things while staying invisible to tax office guys? 

It is wrong to assume that everyone who has a lot of BTC wants luxury items. There are people who are humble their entire lives regardless of the money they have and don't suffer from driving a Lambo and living in a mansion with 20 rooms and 10 bathrooms.

[serveria.com]

UAE only works if you're willing to actually move your life there. Not just paperwork. Your actual life.

Tax residency isn't a form that you complete anymore. You can't just rent a place in Dubai and live in Amsterdam. That game is over.

Yes, unfortunately this is also true for other non-dom and offshore destinations like Serbia, Georgia, Cyprus, Malta etc

Cold wallets provide you privacy until you need not to have privacy. Eventually you need fiat or you need to use a service which requires KYC. Then it all gets reported anyway but later. You're deferring the problem and not solving it.

Yeah, kind of... but here it's possible to use crypto cards to cash out. For moderate amounts though, as most of these crypto card providers are shady and can freeze your funds any time. Exchanges like MEXC still accept Palau IDs and similar stuff, but again, hundreds of negative reviews online are holding me back.

What annoys me about DAC8 isn't so much the reporting as it is. It's that it assumes that everyone using crypto is avoiding taxes. Some people simply want privacy for normal reasons. But the system doesn't care a damn about the difference. Privacy is evasion to them and their eyes.

100% agree. EU is turning into some kind of a communist country. Seriously considering to relocate permanently.

Company accounts could work but you need substance. Real employees Real operations Real business purpose. Shell companies are immediately flagged. And if you're the good guy living in EU, good luck arguing you don't owe taxes there.

Employees not necessary you could run a one man show. But yes, I agree it should be a real working company. FZ (free zone) companies in Dubai is an option. You'll probably need some 5-10k EUR to start anyway.

The bigger thing is this whole system is in favor of people with money. If you can afford lawyers and accountants and actually relocating, you have your options. Everybody else just gets squeezed.

Again true. No middle class anymore - filthy rich (including politicians) or wage slaves. This is the direction we're heading into.