After I stopped getting paid, here is some food for thought...

[Welsh]

I also find it difficult to understand this because it's not as if you are earning in your country's currency, this is crypto we are talking about here such that except you make a p2p transaction and convert it to your fiat currency that is when it should become an income for you to pay tax. You can hold crypto assets for as long as you want then any day you convert it to your country's currency that is when you should pay tax for it. How do you pay taxes on a currency that is not even your country's legal tender?

I find taxation confusing as hell at the best of times that's why I have an accountant to make sure everything is correct. However, in the most recent years for the UK they've made it clear that its deemed income regardless of if you convert it to fiat or not. So, basically you get taxed twice if you earn in crypto (tax then) and then sell it for a profit (capital gain tax).

This highly depends on the country though. I know certain countries only tax when its been sold or used to purchase something.

[Majestic-milf]

1. If you stopped getting paid today, for any reason, would you post with the same zeal that you post today? And more importantly, if you weren't getting paid, would you really need to say all the things that you say when you get paid?

My answer to all the questions would be yes but I feel I need to talk more on this one e as it really speaks to me. I'd admit that it gets boring to come on here and contribute when I'm not in a campaign but the few times I enter a discussion, I find that I tend to give all of me, spend more time into crafting my words because then it's as if I'm not being under any pressure of meeting any quota. We need to give good content, not just because it's a requirement to get paid but still, there's a difference in my posts between when I'm in a campaign and when I'm not.
 I've learned over the period of time I've been here that it's easy to feel motivated to come here when there's incentive to (which means when one's in a campaign) but there's more to this place than just the signature campaigns.

[apogio]

I am really getting it hard to understand the tax issues. Even if you handle your crypto in a non-custodial wallet, would it still be traced? To get payment from the forum, you need a crypto address; probably no one could know about your address. I know you are honest and don't want to skip the tax, but you can spend this crypto for your daily needs or hold it for longer.

I am wondering how you have been handling your crypto profits if you are a trader? However, I wouldn't understand your situation, but the tax seems pretty high. Is it for receiving payment from abroad?

Sorry I can't comment a lot on this. I wanna be as lawful as it gets, even though I hate taxes and totally dislike the unfair politics behind it. I can only tell you that since I've got a family, I can't think for my own anymore, I need to think for my kids as well. So, even if you think that I can simply receive payments in an address and live off of it, and even if it's true, I can't do it.

Profits from trading is a completely other story. It's not considered income, but rather investment gain and it has a 15% flat tax for complex assets (like crypto is considered).

It's not about being unable to hide income from taxes, it's about being able to use your money legally.

This is a much better (and simpler) answer than my answer above 

Question for you - if someone is paid for 20 posts a week, and regularly writes over 30 posts, is he here just for the money or is there something else at stake? Members who have been here for a long time like me (10+ years) have probably long ago profited from BTC and it is unlikely that their motivation is a few hundred $ per month.

Absolutely! I realize that! I'm talking about the new era of users. Someone who first bought BTC in 2020 can't compare their pockets with someone who bought in 2015, or even more with someone who bought in 2011-12.

You could have asked the question "Are you gamblers or not?", given that most (or perhaps all) of the sig campaigns are from the domain of online casinos. I'm more into sports betting (sometimes) so I'm not really interested in gambling. So whichever way you look at it, you can advertise gambling or nothing.

Haha, I liked the "gambling" reference and it's sad but it's true. By the way, did you know that in some jurisdictions it's illegal to promote gambling (or betting) websites?

When you say form an entity do you mean a "company" / "business". In the UK, you can file as self employed rather than opening a company for example. Not sure if your country has something similar.

Hi mate! Yes, that's what I mean. Self-employed is still a form of company in my country.

Legally, you have to declare it. I file a self assessment every year for my earnings for moderation payments for example. If you aren't declaring it, at least in my country its illegal since its deemed income. So, if you want to be legal (which I do and it looks like OP does too) there's no way around it.

Exactly, I think in most countries it's illegal not to declare your income.

I find taxation confusing as hell at the best of times that's why I have an accountant to make sure everything is correct. However, in the most recent years for the UK they've made it clear that its deemed income regardless of if you convert it to fiat or not. So, basically you get taxed twice if you earn in crypto (tax then) and then sell it for a profit (capital gain tax).

This highly depends on the country though. I know certain countries only tax when its been sold or used to purchase something.

Yes, in my country you have an income tax which scales depending on the income level and then there's the conversion (profit) tax.

So if I get paid 1000 euros this year (in BTC) and I sell it for 10,000 euros the next year, I will need to pay taxes both for the income (the 1000 euros) and the profit when I sell it. So I need to keep track of the exact amount I was paid in euro every week, because 98,571 sats don't actually mean anything. I need to know how much I was paid in euros and then I need to do the classic FIFO calculation for the profit calculation. It's not trivial, nor is it too difficult. I could live with it if the taxes were lower.

My answer to all the questions would be yes but I feel I need to talk more on this one e as it really speaks to me. I'd admit that it gets boring to come on here and contribute when I'm not in a campaign but the few times I enter a discussion, I find that I tend to give all of me, spend more time into crafting my words because then it's as if I'm not being under any pressure of meeting any quota. We need to give good content, not just because it's a requirement to get paid but still, there's a difference in my posts between when I'm in a campaign and when I'm not.
 I've learned over the period of time I've been here that it's easy to feel motivated to come here when there's incentive to (which means when one's in a campaign) but there's more to this place than just the signature campaigns.

Yes, personally, I've found myself posting better stuff when I didn't have the anxiety of not meeting my post quota, when I was truly free to write. But, as I said, if you can enjoy the forum and also get paid, it's a blessing.

[SmartGold01]

For instance the code that I am wearing currently stop their promotions here earlier this week if I am not mistakenly, I didn't just want to remove the code because I am not getting paid anymore but due to how I have loved their service and I am still using them to gamble made me leave it. Look to be honest, almost about 70 percent of people who post here are arming at receiving something from campaign, I am not exempted but in as much as that, I do keep the activity going and post around and yet their sig camp has already ended.

The thing is that I have developed passion for this forum and it is like my social media right away, instead of me going to Facebook or TikTok and IG it would be that better for me to read comments and post over here than wasting my data going through those social media which I do receives some random and unwarranted messages from those cheap scammers on social media. Of course you are right, is not that really easy to stay active without getting paid but one thing is that I don't take getting paid as my most priority rather seeing how bitcoin grows and helping people around gives me Joy and still, if there is campaign and I applied they accepts me I will continue with them, but if I didn't accepted I still keep the activities going on till I get myself fixed into one.

Sorry for the regulation/law over your country and hope it becomes loosing a bit for you people.

[LoyceV]

So if I get paid 1000 euros this year (in BTC) and I sell it for 10,000 euros the next year, I will need to pay taxes both for the income (the 1000 euros) and the profit when I sell it.

So far, I get it. But why would you be required to create a legal entity? Here, there's a thing called "other income", which gives a field that looks like this:

Code:

description   amount

If they ever ask, you'd better have a fitting story, but other than that, that's it! You'll just pay income tax.

Sorry for the regulation/law over your country and hope it becomes loosing a bit for you people.

Lower taxes is a pipe dream. When did taxes ever become better?

[Man of peace]

1. If you stopped getting paid today, for any reason, would you post with the same zeal that you post today? And more importantly, if you weren't getting paid, would you really need to say all the things that you say when you get paid?

Honestly speaking for me i will continue posting on the forum but not as active as I use to be before and another thing is that it will not be compulsory that i must post every day like when I am being paid, because what makes us to be serious with the posting here is because we are being paid and no one wants to lose his or her payment in any single week, because we all know that if we fail to post or maybe did not make the required post in a week we will not be paid, that is why we are being so serious here and as soon as payment is not involved anymore honestly the posting will not be encouraging anymore because the zeal is not there anymore like before again..

So posting after one have stopped being paid will just be to interact with people,or to keep our hands busy,but to have a sleepless night will be over,it wouldn't be a stress to us anymore because there is no payment involved anymore.. and that is to show you how the spirit of money looks like..

[dkbit98]

1. If you stopped getting paid today, for any reason, would you post with the same zeal that you post today? And more importantly, if you weren't getting paid, would you really need to say all the things that you say when you get paid?

I would certainly continue to post but not with the same intensity like I do it now.
Getting paid for something I like is very good motivation for me, same as talking about bitcoin, hardware wallets, and anything relate with that.

2. Would you support the forum to the outsiders, who would rationally wonder: "what on earth do all these people do there everyday?".

Support how exactly?
I honestly don't care much what other people think.

3. Would you be actually interested in this forum's longevity and would you try to stop the scammers if you weren't getting paid? EDIT: I don't mean getting paid for moderation or tagging scammers, but I mean if you get paid and you need a sustainable payment resource through the forum, you gotta try to keep it safe, don't you?

In the past I was very motivated to fight against scammers and cheaters, but gradually I moved on the other things, like Satoshi )
If I was moderator for some board, let's say Hardware Wallets or our Local Board, I would do it even for free, but I would not refuse some form of payment.

4. Do you actually know (or use) the website or service that you promote? It's not a trap question, I just want you to think if you'd jump from campaing to campaign simply because of the money, or if there's also a tie with the service that you promote.

I used most of the services I was promoting, but I doubt people advertising stuff in the real world actually use that stuff.
I also refused many times to advertise something I don't like, and I would never advertise ledger hw.

[Perfectbaby]

I have benefited from the forum so nothing to hide over here, to be frank thing are extremely hard over our country and knowing about forum sounds like a savior to me because there isn't anything working fine over here, so knowing about forum was a great opportunity for me to help sustain family and also to take good care of my self and to also meet up with bills out there.
Although, I could be a bit relaxed if I am not getting paid over here but still I will keep making use of the forum even though I didn't put much pressure as someone who is active on a campaign but just the good thing is that I am much more happier to know about this forum and for that I do keep sticking around here to also read things across and even if I am not getting paid for the main time I won't be that worried as currently I am not into any campaign yet but I am still sticking around here.

[Free Market Capitalist]

Exactly, I think in most countries it's illegal not to declare your income.

It is also illegal to urinate in the street, but you won't be sent to jail for it. See that killing somebody is illegal and urinating in the street is also illegal but the penalties you face for one thing and another are fundamentally different. What happens in most European countries is that if you don't declare it and you get caught, you get a fine, so more similar to catching you urinating in the street, being the only difference that the fine would be higher. Add to that the fact that the authorities usually have about five years to catch you, after which time the statute of limitations expires.

[FinneysTrueVision]

Food for thought (some questions that I have):
1. If you stopped getting paid today, for any reason, would you post with the same zeal that you post today? And more importantly, if you weren't getting paid, would you really need to say all the things that you say when you get paid?
2. Would you support the forum to the outsiders, who would rationally wonder: "what on earth do all these people do there everyday?".
3. Would you be actually interested in this forum's longevity and would you try to stop the scammers if you weren't getting paid? EDIT: I don't mean getting paid for moderation or tagging scammers, but I mean if you get paid and you need a sustainable payment resource through the forum, you gotta try to keep it safe, don't you?
4. Do you actually know (or use) the website or service that you promote? It's not a trap question, I just want you to think if you'd jump from campaing to campaign simply because of the money, or if there's also a tie with the service that you promote.

For most of last year I was not in a paid campaign. I still logged in almost every day and posted in topics that I had an interest in, but my overall level of activity did decline.

Despite not being paid for my signature, I still tried to improve the quality of the forum by reporting AI spammers. I probably did it more than I have done recently, simply because I had more free time to analyze users’ post histories.

Bitsler is a very old brand that many people are familiar with. I used it briefly a long time ago. Mandatory KYC and region blocking have gotten too strict, that I gave up gambling for the most part. Even if the laws became friendlier, my interests have changed too much and I’ve become more conservative with how I handle my finances, that I feel it’s better to leave my gambling habits in the past.

[lovesmayfamilis]

I won't lie, I came to this forum by chance, having learned online that it was possible to earn something here. Bounties, yes, that's what they are. But exactly three months later, I realized that bounties were complete nonsense. I started reading more and getting used to the forum, and I enjoyed looking for scams on the forum since, at that time, several were being distributed daily. Yes, of course, I rose in rank by earning merits, but my rank when I first participated in the company signature was already Sr. Member. Besides, I didn't immediately recognize what a signature company was, as strange as that may be.

Furthermore, I think everyone knows that I received a one-year ban from participating in the company signature and a two-month ban from appearing on the forum. I didn't quit; I didn't create an alternative account; I simply read the forum. I'm grateful to those people who supported me outside the forum and advised me not to leave. Moreover, I became very attached to the forum. I had a two-month absence from the forum due to personal reasons; my husband was injured, and I had to be there at all times.

Long story short, I start every morning by reading the forum. I don't have social media, no Instagram, and all the other things people like to brag about online. There's the forum, which I love; I love sending reports; I love catching cheaters, and I doubt I'll stop loving it even if I don't get paid for it.

A good point is that we still haven't acquired clip-based thinking, as young people have it so strongly now. On the forum, people still know how to read long texts, especially when they're written by people, not AI, which is becoming more common elsewhere

Honestly speaking for me i will continue posting on the forum but not as active as I use to be before and another thing is that it will not be compulsory that i must post every day like when I am being paid, because what makes us to be serious with the posting here is because we are being paid and no one wants to lose his or her payment in any single week, because we all know that if we fail to post or maybe did not make the required post in a week we will not be paid, that is why we are being so serious here and as soon as payment is not involved anymore honestly the posting will not be encouraging anymore because the zeal is not there anymore like before again..

So posting after one have stopped being paid will just be to interact with people,or to keep our hands busy,but to have a sleepless night will be over,it wouldn't be a stress to us anymore because there is no payment involved anymore.. and that is to show you how the spirit of money looks like..

You just admitted that this is not your only account. You write about sleepless nights. Does that mean you have multiple accounts?

[apogio]

So far, I get it. But why would you be required to create a legal entity? Here, there's a thing called "other income", which gives a field that looks like this:

Code:

description   amount

If they ever ask, you'd better have a fitting story, but other than that, that's it! You'll just pay income tax.

The other income in Greece works only if you receive up to 3 payments for the same "service" or "product". It's supposed to be the place where you declare your profits from selling one of your paintings (for example). But, if you decided to sell more than 3 paintings, you'd have to be a business. It's written officially that every transaction that occurs more than 3 times, is supposed to be business-related and doesn't fit in the other income section.

In the past I was very motivated to fight against scammers and cheaters, but gradually I moved on the other things, like Satoshi )
If I was moderator for some board, let's say Hardware Wallets or our Local Board, I would do it even for free, but I would not refuse some form of payment.

I wasn't aware, up until lately, that moderators actually get paid. I thought they were all doing it for free and that's why their commitment was kinda low. But, I agree that I'd moderate for free. (In fact, I couldn't moderate for money unless it was a very big amount )

I used most of the services I was promoting, but I doubt people advertising stuff in the real world actually use that stuff.
I also refused many times to advertise something I don't like, and I would never advertise ledger hw.

Great! I like this mentality, I've not refused to advertise anything, but in fact, I never had too many options to select from.

It is also illegal to urinate in the street, but you won't be sent to jail for it. See that killing somebody is illegal and urinating in the street is also illegal but the penalties you face for one thing and another are fundamentally different. What happens in most European countries is that if you don't declare it and you get caught, you get a fine, so more similar to catching you urinating in the street, being the only difference that the fine would be higher. Add to that the fact that the authorities usually have about five years to catch you, after which time the statute of limitations expires.

Sure, but why should I not care about a fine? I mean, why should I wanna do anything that's illegal.
I can almost guarrantee that I won't get "caught", but again, I want to be lawful, because in general I wanna have the minimum possible amount of interactions with the authorities. If I could simply not exist for them, I'd buy it easily, even if my intention is not to do anything illegal.

Yes, of course, I rose in rank by earning merits, but my rank when I first participated in the company signature was already Sr. Member. Besides, I didn't immediately recognize what a signature company was, as strange as that may be.

It's funny because when I became a Member, a campaign manager asked me "do you rent your avatar?" and I thought they wanted to get a license to wear my avatar at the time, so I responded "it's free of charge, I just found it online"

I had a two-month absence from the forum due to personal reasons; my husband was injured, and I had to be there at all times.

Long story short, I start every morning by reading the forum. I don't have social media, no Instagram, and all the other things people like to brag about online. There's the forum, which I love; I love sending reports; I love catching cheaters, and I doubt I'll stop loving it even if I don't get paid for it.

A good point is that we still haven't acquired clip-based thinking, as young people have it so strongly now. On the forum, people still know how to read long texts, especially when they're written by people, not AI, which is becoming more common elsewhere

Two months absence, or any absence is fruitful, in my opinion. I've taken some time off during Christmas vacation period. I was logging in, I was checking daily but I wasn't writting not because I wanted to not write but because I wanted to evaluate my online presence. And, here I am again! I have decided to participate as much as I want, not as much as I can. I hope the difference makes sense.

And absolutely, "older" people know how to read and, nowadays, they also value it more than just a 5-seconds all-inclusive video. I also don't have social media, none of them. But it's not because I hate them, I actually can't live with the fast pace that they promote. I want to be calm and rational, otherwise I'm lost and I don't thing straight.

[rat03gopoh]

Types of contributions to consider if you're actually reluctant to post without monetary incentives :

• Posting
  
• Spending smerits
• Developing/maintaining forum support tools (bots/extensions/statistics)
• Fighting scammers/contract defaulters (flagging/tagging)
• Reporting spam/malicious posts
• Testing forum security/bugs

[Lucius]

~snip~
Sorry I can't comment a lot on this. I wanna be as lawful as it gets, even though I hate taxes and totally dislike the unfair politics behind it. I can only tell you that since I've got a family, I can't think for my own anymore, I need to think for my kids as well. So, even if you think that I can simply receive payments in an address and live off of it, and even if it's true, I can't do it.

I respect your decision to live 100% according to the law of your country, but I already wrote to you in another thread that I don't see why you shouldn't be part of some sig campaign, collect funds and maybe one day find a way to spend them without revealing your identity to anyone.

Let's say you are going on a trip abroad and you are aware that there are physical stores where you can pay with BTC or that there are even physical exchanges where you can sell your coins without KYC.

Haha, I liked the "gambling" reference and it's sad but it's true. By the way, did you know that in some jurisdictions it's illegal to promote gambling (or betting) websites?

I know that some countries prohibit advertising online casinos, which is why @LoyceV doesn't promote anything in its signature. I honestly don't know if that would be the case for me, but even if it were so, I honestly wouldn't care because I live in a highly corrupt country that gives very little and takes a lot, and as far as taxes are concerned, I pay 25% VAT on most products and I think that's quite enough.

It doesn't occur to me to pay any other taxes on cryptocurrencies, either those I hold or those I've already sold. Of course I don't use CEXs or banks.

[The Cryptovator]

I am really getting it hard to understand the tax issues. Even if you handle your crypto in a non-custodial wallet, would it still be traced? To get payment from the forum, you need a crypto address; probably no one could know about your address. I know you are honest and don't want to skip the tax, but you can spend this crypto for your daily needs or hold it for longer.

Legally, you have to declare it. I file a self assessment every year for my earnings for moderation payments for example. If you aren't declaring it, at least in my country its illegal since its deemed income. So, if you want to be legal (which I do and it looks like OP does too) there's no way around it.

Understand now. It's all about legal issues. It's also the same in my country; you have to declare all the income sources and have to submit tax. So all the details will be available on my tax file. But unfortunately crypto itself isn't legal here, which means even if I want to show my income from the crypto marketing or from the forum, it can't be shown. I have been showing them as freelance work and paying tax. Unless I pay the tax, I can't use these funds anywhere as an investment or buy something big like land. I am paying tax but have to convert crypto earnings into fiat.

I am really getting it hard to understand the tax issues. Even if you handle your crypto in a non-custodial wallet, would it still be traced?

It's not about being unable to hide income from taxes, it's about being able to use your money legally.

Got it. Same I do, but have to shown them as fiat earnings, not crypto.

I am really getting it hard to understand the tax issues. Even if you handle your crypto in a non-custodial wallet, would it still be traced? To get payment from the forum, you need a crypto address; probably no one could know about your address. I know you are honest and don't want to skip the tax, but you can spend this crypto for your daily needs or hold it for longer.

I am wondering how you have been handling your crypto profits if you are a trader? However, I wouldn't understand your situation, but the tax seems pretty high. Is it for receiving payment from abroad?

Sorry I can't comment a lot on this. I wanna be as lawful as it gets, even though I hate taxes and totally dislike the unfair politics behind it. I can only tell you that since I've got a family, I can't think for my own anymore, I need to think for my kids as well. So, even if you think that I can simply receive payments in an address and live off of it, and even if it's true, I can't do it.

Profits from trading is a completely other story. It's not considered income, but rather investment gain and it has a 15% flat tax for complex assets (like crypto is considered).

I got you, don't want to involved with any illegal activities anyway. Even myself don't like the system of tax in our country, but we are forced to follow the rules. We have to pay a lot of tax, most case have to pay 25% after a limit. You earn more you have to pay more higher ratios.

[Majestic-milf]

Yes, personally, I've found myself posting better stuff when I didn't have the anxiety of not meeting my post quota, when I was truly free to write. But, as I said, if you can enjoy the forum and also get paid, it's a blessing.

I second this last line. Nothing like giving quality content that you like to do and get paid for it.  . All the same, it's important to like something you're doing whether there is a reward for it or not cause that's what would make you keep going when there are no acknowledgements like merits or you don't even get picked in a campaign. I feel that if newbies get to understand this, the rate at which some of them are in a hurry to build their accounts without really forum sink into them would reduce a bit.

[NotATether]

Question for you - if someone is paid for 20 posts a week, and regularly writes over 30 posts, is he here just for the money or is there something else at stake? Members who have been here for a long time like me (10+ years) have probably long ago profited from BTC and it is unlikely that their motivation is a few hundred $ per month.

There is way more extractable value here in this forum in terms of traffic so no it's not just for the sig campaigns for those kind of people.

[dzungmobile]

I find taxation confusing as hell at the best of times that's why I have an accountant to make sure everything is correct. However, in the most recent years for the UK they've made it clear that its deemed income regardless of if you convert it to fiat or not. So, basically you get taxed twice if you earn in crypto (tax then) and then sell it for a profit (capital gain tax).

If you don't want to be charged with capital gain tax, charging a second time, you can quickly converted bitcoin to fiat currency almost immediately after you received it. It is not likely you will have capital gain by selling quickly after receiving like this and this approach is helpful for people who are unsure and don't plan to hold bitcoin as long term investment. So they will not want to sell bitcoin anytime in near future like next month, two months or 6 months with loss from a time they received bitcoin.

It's just impossible with people who love Bitcoin, believe in its future, they will hold their bitcoin salary, and likely get gain, then have to pay capital gain tax.

[EarnOnVictor]

Two months absence, or any absence is fruitful, in my opinion. I've taken some time off during Christmas vacation period. I was logging in, I was checking daily but I wasn't writting not because I wanted to not write but because I wanted to evaluate my online presence. And, here I am again! I have decided to participate as much as I want, not as much as I can. I hope the difference makes sense.

Of course, the difference is clear and makes sense, and it boils down to what I've been saying on the forum about people's presence and activities. Judging from the main OP and these excerpts, I believe it's all about Motivation, above all other considerations. Still, something must motivate a user, yeah, that's a must.

It could be 1. The monetary gain, 2. The knowledge gain/give, or 3. Socialization. More reasons could activate it, but those are the ones I could think of now.

About the forum itself, whether people like it or not, the number 1 is the major reason why the forum is as dense as it is now. Removing that (as you hinted in the main OP), then the reason will dance between 2 and 3, and I tell you, there will be a drastic reduction in activities.

And specifically, in your case, based on all that you've hinted, I think your motivations could be majorly Socialization, with a touch of 2.