After I stopped getting paid, here is some food for thought...

[vapourminer]

Now, when a person wants to make a move through the legal system, so to speak, they have to file a declaration. Then, they just need proof of the origin. The problem is never at the entrance, it's at the exit. When you leave, you have to prove the origin. Whether you should have paid something beforehand or not is another question, but as long as the person pays, everything is fine.

Ultimately, it is up to each individual to act based on the information and evidence they have.

back (~2011) when i gpu mined with pools i signed my pool payout adds along the lines of "im so-an-so and i mined at this addy at this pool with this equipment around these dates" and i had pics of my mining gear and receipts too. and pool payout logs. all in digital and printed form, stored in safe deposit boxes. basically all for tax purposes and proof of origin of my coins. oh and employment records from then as i was working at the time. to show i had enough income to buy the GPU/FPGAs/ASICs back then.

here in the USA (land of the free) we have to be prepared to provide proof of the source of the funds used to buy something, then keep track of cost basis when disposed of.

[Lucius]

Oops yeah you're right our government is a pioneer in implementing stupid EU guidelines though. Limit on cash transactions will soon be implemented EU wide.

Maybe the reason is that the EU invested huge money to save Greece from sinking like a stone and that means that you will pay the debts, as I read, at least until 2060. In other words, you are not the boss in your own house, but there are few countries that can say that today.

As for paying taxes, while someone here is worried about a few hundred or thousand euros, your compatriots are holding tens of billions of euros in various tax havens and they don't care about the laws.

Following similar actions by the United Kingdom and Germany, the Greek government was in talks with Switzerland in 2011, to try to force Swiss banks to reveal information on the bank accounts of Greek citizens.[89] The Ministry of Finance stated that Greeks with Swiss bank accounts would be required either to pay a tax or to reveal information such as the identity of the bank account holder to the Greek internal revenue services.[89] The Greek and Swiss governments hoped to reach a deal on the matter by the end of 2011.[89]

The solution demanded by Greece had still not been effected as of 2015; when there was an estimated €80 billion of taxes evaded on Swiss bank accounts. But by then the Greek and Swiss governments were seriously negotiating a tax treaty to address this issue.[83][84] On 1 March 2016 Switzerland ratified an agreement creating a new tax transparency law to fight tax evasion more effectively. Starting in 2018, banks in both Greece and Switzerland were to exchange information about the bank accounts of citizens of the other country, to minimize the possibility of hiding untaxed income

[Ultegra134]

Maybe the reason is that the EU invested huge money to save Greece from sinking like a stone and that means that you will pay the debts, as I read, at least until 2060. In other words, you are not the boss in your own house, but there are few countries that can say that today.

As for paying taxes, while someone here is worried about a few hundred or thousand euros, your compatriots are holding tens of billions of euros in various tax havens and they don't care about the laws.

It's quite ironic that politicians and other corrupt people who have been abusing the system for decades, with billions of euros in foreign banks, aren't paying any taxes, while we're here discussing about our signature campaign earnings and their possible taxation. Double standards for people of a two-tier society.

[apogio]

Ultimately, it is up to each individual to act based on the information and evidence they have.

There are supposed to be laws that basically constrain this freedom to act based on the information and evidence you have, but I get the point obviously. Even if you're in Portugal and I'm in Greece, the situation is similar everywhere. There are some substantial details that differ, but the core ides of your post is valid.

here in the USA (land of the free) we have to be prepared to provide proof of the source of the funds used to buy something, then keep track of cost basis when disposed of.

I believe it's everywhere, or in most countries at least. You have to be prepared to tell "I bought X amount of BTC, at an exchange rate of Y, using Z amount of EUR which I have acquired from my job and here's the transaction that proves where the money come from". If the money are sent from your salary bank account, you are in a good situation because luckily most banks offer full historical transaction statements.

As for paying taxes, while someone here is worried about a few hundred or thousand euros, your compatriots are holding tens of billions of euros in various tax havens and they don't care about the laws.

It's quite ironic that politicians and other corrupt people who have been abusing the system for decades, with billions of euros in foreign banks, aren't paying any taxes, while we're here discussing about our signature campaign earnings and their possible taxation. Double standards for people of a two-tier society.

It's not ironic. It's pathetic, brutal and it's a strong punch in our stomachs.
I know and you may not like the answer but seeing other people getting away with money laundering and tax evasion isn't going to cause memetic behaviour from my end (I hope my english make sense here lol).
I mean, as a Greek citizen, my weapon is my vote and my right to protest. I'll use both. But, if someone launders billions of money and gets away with it, I won't do it.

[alani123]

@Lucius no matter how I approach it I always see that the ultra rich keep having it better and better by squizing everyone else more and more. The current system isn't sustainable. The question is when people will realize.

[Ultegra134]

It's not ironic. It's pathetic, brutal and it's a strong punch in our stomachs.
I know and you may not like the answer but seeing other people getting away with money laundering and tax evasion isn't going to cause memetic behaviour from my end (I hope my english make sense here lol).
I mean, as a Greek citizen, my weapon is my vote and my right to protest. I'll use both. But, if someone launders billions of money and gets away with it, I won't do it.

I understand your point, using it as an excuse to also do the same thing is also hypocritical, but at this point, not unexpectable (when talking about Greece at least). The issue with us is that nobody is paying attention anymore, people didn't go to vote, aren't protesting and so on. The system is problematic and as long as there are loopholes to get around it, people will do it, and especially when billions are laundered by politicians etc.

[m2017]

1. If you stopped getting paid today, for any reason, would you post with the same zeal that you post today?

I've had periods (I think most people who participate in sig.campaigns have, too) where I haven't sgnatured, and then my activity has declined. Therefore, I can say that without participating in the sig.campaign, my zeal diminishes. Knowing I'm participating in the campaign forces me to be more disciplined in regularly participating in discussions. This encourages to be more active.

And more importantly, if you weren't getting paid, would you really need to say all the things that you say when you get paid?

I think the urge to talk out would be lower. But still, the desire to talk out remains and manifests itself, even in the unsignatured period.

After stopping, I was posting less and less in here, I was scrolling the threads everyday (really!), but I was feeling that I hadn't many valuable things to say. I was reading your posts and conversations though.

As you can see, sig.campaigns are an incentive to keep users active on this forum. We could say that.

2. Would you support the forum to the outsiders, who would rationally wonder: "what on earth do all these people do there everyday?".

No, I'll keep quiet and pretend I don't know anything about it, because most people, even those who know about bitcoin, won't be interested in the forum. It's an old-school forum, and for people accustomed to video reviews and AI questions\answers - i.e., information presented in a ready-made format - they won't want to spend hours searching through various sections and tabs. This forum is a kind of "mammoth" (a creature from the past who miraculously managed to stay alive) from the old internet era in the eyes of modern users, albeit with invaluable information, heavily diluted by flood and spam.

I'll also keep quiet about the forum for privacy reasons, as bitcoin is already associated with an easy way to make money (by interacting with users with a $5 wrench). Therefore, I shouldn't advertise my involvement with anything related to bitcoin to others. Including bitcointalk, since this may be perceived by outsiders as a mandatory requirement for this user to have bitcoins (even if this is not the case or the amount of this is completely insignificant) and create a threat.

3. Would you be actually interested in this forum's longevity and would you try to stop the scammers if you weren't getting paid? EDIT: I don't mean getting paid for moderation or tagging scammers, but I mean if you get paid and you need a sustainable payment resource through the forum, you gotta try to keep it safe, don't you?

I would like this forum to exist for as long as possible, preferably while maintaining what makes the forum what it is today - a place for like-minded and BTC-passionate people. Let it be so. I am not saying this because I have a signature.

4. Do you actually know (or use) the website or service that you promote? It's not a trap question, I just want you to think if you'd jump from campaing to campaign simply because of the money, or if there's also a tie with the service that you promote.

To the best of my knowledge, this companies whose signature campaigns I participated in have not been convicted of scam or any other abuse during the period I used this signature (or at other times). Therefore, I know that the service or website is reliable and reputable, and this is sufficient to satisfy my conscience that I am not causing harm by promoting the company whose information is used in my signature. If the company I promoted is convicted of scam (or other dishonest behavior), I will be forced to change \ delete my signature.

I have used some of the websites or services I promoted in the past, and I don't rule out the possibility that I may do so in the future.

Disclaimers:
1. I liked getting paid as well and I'll probably try to join campaigns again, if the legislation in my country gets better, or if the payments from campaigns increase to justify me getting paid.

What if you used the payments you receive for charity? Like you've already done, to some extent, with bitcoin giveaways to worthy forum users, or donating to the forum's development? You asked above about fighting scammers. Well, this money could be used to improve the forum.

And what's the benefit for you, you might ask. It's obvious. It will re-engage you in the forum and encourage you to communicate more, not just browse and read other people's discussions. You could think of it as volunteering (for the good of BTC-community), for example.

2. My post can be summarized in the following question: "If you weren't getting paid, would you still be around?". My answer to this question is "Yes! I will!".

The only question that remains is what percentage of personal time users will be willing to devote to the forum without sig.campaign payments.

[Lucius]

@Lucius no matter how I approach it I always see that the ultra rich keep having it better and better by squizing everyone else more and more. The current system isn't sustainable. The question is when people will realize.

That's why I decided not to blindly follow the rules that were set up to make them even richer and me even poorer. Among other things, Bitcoin exists so that people would have some kind of financial independence from banks and the state, and we see how far we have gone in the wrong direction to pay taxes on taxes and so on.

Far be it from me to tell someone not to pay taxes, but if they don't know about something, I certainly won't tell them because they would surely laugh at me if I came to register at the tax office myself because of what I get from the sig campaign.

[alani123]

@Lucius no matter how I approach it I always see that the ultra rich keep having it better and better by squizing everyone else more and more. The current system isn't sustainable. The question is when people will realize.

That's why I decided not to blindly follow the rules that were set up to make them even richer and me even poorer. Among other things, Bitcoin exists so that people would have some kind of financial independence from banks and the state, and we see how far we have gone in the wrong direction to pay taxes on taxes and so on.

Far be it from me to tell someone not to pay taxes, but if they don't know about something, I certainly won't tell them because they would surely laugh at me if I came to register at the tax office myself because of what I get from the sig campaign.

On that I wanted to say for instance that if we all blindly pay crazy amounts of crypto tax without saying anything of course the government is going to benefit and even strengthen its regulatory power. If the vast majority of us still do them maybe they'll just use the funds to strangle dissent.

But if we organise in a civil war much better results can be achieved. For instance look at ship owners, they were disobeying laws for so long in an organized manner than in the end world governments caved and let them write their own laws.

Bitcoin users as taxpayers also hold some power. If no bitcoin user pays taxes on crypto then the government loses out. But if the demands are prompted in an organised manner and reasonable regulation is forwarded, then at least some entities will pay taxes and it will be a win win.

For me a western government even implying non employment income that is so low should be taxex crypto or not. If a government makes it so complicated to get at max $100 a week to the point where it's citizens are considering against it, then people should realize it's a crazy situation and do something about it. Because really many people need that 100$ more than the government needs its 15 cents on the dollar or whatever the tax rate would be. And if the government isn't serving it's people it needs to change.