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Author Topic: silver and gold in case of ron paul win  (Read 2024 times)
bracek
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December 26, 2011, 03:00:02 PM
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I would like to see how you all debate on this.

would fundamentals change, both for economics and for gold/silver ?
would dollar regain peoples confidence ?

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December 26, 2011, 03:14:09 PM
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Did you say Ron Paul win with a straight face?

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December 26, 2011, 03:59:55 PM
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Even if Ron Paul were to win the primary (which he won't and this comes from a Ron Paul supporter) he polls behind nobama in the general (and that is before the mainstream media attack engine starts) so a win isn't a win.  I think the upcoming election will push negative campaigning to a whole new level. Obama has absolutely nothing positive to run on and will likely raise ~$1 billion.  Insane amount of $ + no positive record = unbelievably nasty election.

Hypothetically even if he won the Presidency any return to the Gold Standard would require legislation from Congress which will never happen.

So the effect on Gold market will be absolutely nothing.  The dollar would strengthen on any President w/ the resolve to veto any deficit spending bill.
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December 26, 2011, 04:45:19 PM
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I agree with DeathAndTaxes. Using gold/silver as money requires a specific legal framework in order to work to a larger extent than a simple exchange of physical goods. There is not even an agreement among gold standard proponents about basics, such as if FRB should be permitted or not. Two of the more popular models, Mises-Rothbard and White-Selgin, never even existed in reality. Even if Ron Paul wins and manages to push something through the congress, there's no way to resolve the issues, unless all legal tender laws, banking regulation and anti money laundering provisions were repealed and market was allowed to run its course. I'm not even talking about abolishing taxation. I don't see any of that that as very likely even with Ron Paul in office.

Maybe he'd be able to cut spending and stop the printing of money and allow the depression to come earlier, instead of having to end up in a hyperinflation. This probably wouldn't make him very popular among the public.

Meanwhile, Bitcoin is here and works. In a way it's tragic but that's the way it is.
bracek
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December 26, 2011, 05:08:28 PM
 #5

Did you say Ron Paul win with a straight face?

yes, but i am in europe, you can forgive me Smiley
the info I have been getting is almost only ron paul
noone else from this list
http://www.politics1.com/p2012.htm

I am not searching actively...
but question was "what if",
regarding his "healthy governing" ideas
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December 26, 2011, 05:17:14 PM
 #6

the reason i am asking about ron paul is because
it seems to me he is the only one that could have impact on my investments
as for all others, I've got 'em covered, they would work for me if I am in gold and silver Smiley

I am considering going all in into PM-s
I know that I could be late to the party, especially in gold,

I have no other alternetive,
bitcoins i have almost enough Smiley
now i would diversify with PM-s and maybe small apartement...

I am running away from ALL promises, stocks, currencies, bonds...
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December 26, 2011, 05:35:31 PM
 #7

Ron Paul has won almost every straw poll in the last year. He has raised more money from small individual donors than any other GOP candidate by far. (2x more than Romney, 4x more than Gingrich, over 10x more than Perry.)

I think that's a better indication of actual support than the bullshit polls quoted by mainstream media...you know, the guys who reset their own polls any time Ron Paul gets ahead, or ignore them in favor of polls with tiny sample sizes.

Obviously it's an uphill battle when 90% of the media is against you. But so far he's doing extremely well.

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December 26, 2011, 05:37:24 PM
 #8

the reason i am asking about ron paul is because
it seems to me he is the only one that could have impact on my investments
as for all others, I've got 'em covered, they would work for me if I am in gold and silver Smiley

I am considering going all in into PM-s
I know that I could be late to the party, especially in gold,

I have no other alternetive,
bitcoins i have almost enough Smiley
now i would diversify with PM-s and maybe small apartement...

I am running away from ALL promises, stocks, currencies, bonds...

If you have any significant assets I would talk to a financial adviser before doing something that drastic.  Putting all your money into PM is a good way to end up a lot poorer.  Gold and other PM are just as capable of creating massive speculative bubbles as stocks, real estate, and other asset classes.

Why is Gold worth $1700 USD ounce?  Why not $1200 or $800 or $300?  It is simply worth $1700 because of consensus, a consensus of fallable humans.  The same humans that drove real estate prices up 100%, 200%, 300% in 7 years.  The same fallable humans who put 100 PE multipliers on petfoods.com. 

While Gold will never go to zero it is a little comfort if you watched 90% of your life savings disapeared in your risky non-diversified portfolio.
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December 26, 2011, 05:53:51 PM
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If you have any significant assets I would talk to a financial adviser before doing something that drastic.  Putting all your money into PM is a good way to end up a lot poorer.  Gold and other PM are just as capable of creating massive speculative bubbles as stocks, real estate, and other asset classes.

Why is Gold worth $1700 USD ounce?  Why not $1200 or $800 or $300?  It is simply worth $1700 because of consensus, a consensus of fallable humans.  The same humans that drove real estate prices up 100%, 200%, 300% in 7 years.  The same fallable humans who put 100 PE multipliers on petfoods.com. 

While Gold will never go to zero it is a little comfort if you watched 90% of your life savings disapeared in your risky non-diversified portfolio.

I don't put much stock into financial advisers Smiley

wouldn't wealth be diversified nicely in
apartment in capital city
and rest divided into
25% in btc
45% in gold/silver
and cash (euro, but could change it in matter of hours to something else) ?
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December 26, 2011, 06:04:06 PM
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I don't put much stock into financial advisers Smiley

wouldn't wealth be diversified nicely in
apartment in capital city
and rest divided into
25% in btc
45% in gold/silver
and cash (euro, but could change it in matter of hours to something else) ?


I think it is good for pm-s that this uncertainty in global economics persists,
politicians would like to preserve this state,
PM-s should do well in this environment

btc should do well because it has a lot of room to grow in user base

housing is always needed, at least my apartment is needed by me

all i am missing is a crossbow Smiley

any suggestions on some other things to buy to store wealth
with absolute ownership over them
I do not like land with forest, it would require too much of my attention...
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December 26, 2011, 06:13:22 PM
 #11

any suggestions on some other things to buy to store wealth
with absolute ownership over them
I do not like land with forest, it would require too much of my attention...

How does land require your attention?  Does it get up and walk away if you don't watch it?

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bracek
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December 26, 2011, 06:55:39 PM
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How does land require your attention?  Does it get up and walk away if you don't watch it?

If you do not visit or check it, there can be some trees missing,
people tend to "test" ownership, especially if owner is known to almost never be around.
running live stock across property, stealing wood...

state may impose some tax based on weather you are growing some crops or just leaving it unattended.

I have heard of people even trying to rewrite ownership, (this one should be checked for apartment regularly)
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December 26, 2011, 06:58:44 PM
 #13

this is going in wrong direction

so what about PM-s in a politically optimistic environment
(I assume now is pessimistic environment and it is doing good for PM-s)

would prices drop if world starts looking better ?

how about nanotechnology squeezing silver out of electronics
and such things ?
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December 26, 2011, 07:55:34 PM
 #14

I don't live in the States either, but I hope for a Ron Paul win. As I understand, he admits that a pre-Nixon gold standard is impractical. Rather he would decriminalize and deregulate the USD monopoly (legal tender laws, some coupon and stamp act, etc) and allow for competing monies. I think it's an exciting proposition.

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December 26, 2011, 08:19:51 PM
 #15

Even if Ron Paul were to win the primary (which he won't and this comes from a Ron Paul supporter) he polls behind nobama in the general (and that is before the mainstream media attack engine starts) so a win isn't a win.  I think the upcoming election will push negative campaigning to a whole new level. Obama has absolutely nothing positive to run on and will likely raise ~$1 billion.  Insane amount of $ + no positive record = unbelievably nasty election.

Hypothetically even if he won the Presidency any return to the Gold Standard would require legislation from Congress which will never happen.

So the effect on Gold market will be absolutely nothing.  The dollar would strengthen on any President w/ the resolve to veto any deficit spending bill.

Even with a president talking about the virtues of gold against fiat?

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December 30, 2011, 09:58:27 PM
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Premise 1. Gold and silver are likely (but not guaranteed) to lose value in the short term and lose significant value in the long term, relative to the performance of other investments, based upon the historical average value of gold and silver, with the election of a mainstream (Democrat or Republican) leader.

Premise 2. Gold and silver are likely to gain value in the short term and gain significant value in the long term, relative to the performance of other investments, with the election of Ron Paul.

Premise 3. The probability of Ron Paul being elected president of the United States is 0%.

C. The probability of gold and silver gaining value in the short term, and gaining significant value in the long term, relative to other investments, is 0%, while it's likely (but not guaranteed) to lose significant value relative to other investments, both in the short and long term.


I consider "other investments" to include only low-risk investments like holding and reinvesting large sums of U.S. dollars in CDs, and buying 10-year or 30-year U.S. Treasuries, even at current interest rates.  The value of the dollar is its incredible stability, backed by the full faith of the world's most incredibly powerful military and economic engine, and the fact that it's 100% sovereign in nature.  These types of investments will outperform gold over any given 100-year or 200-year period, and to boot they are more stable, safer, and less subject to price volatility or speculative bubbles due to the incredible volume of currency used for legitimate business transactions, especially compared to gold, where the opposite is true.
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December 31, 2011, 01:34:38 AM
 #17

Premise 1. Gold and silver are likely (but not guaranteed) to lose value in the short term and lose significant value in the long term, relative to the performance of other investments, based upon the historical average value of gold and silver, with the election of a mainstream (Democrat or Republican) leader.

Premise 2. Gold and silver are likely to gain value in the short term and gain significant value in the long term, relative to the performance of other investments, with the election of Ron Paul.

Premise 3. The probability of Ron Paul being elected president of the United States is 0%.

C. The probability of gold and silver gaining value in the short term, and gaining significant value in the long term, relative to other investments, is 0%, while it's likely (but not guaranteed) to lose significant value relative to other investments, both in the short and long term.


I consider "other investments" to include only low-risk investments like holding and reinvesting large sums of U.S. dollars in CDs, and buying 10-year or 30-year U.S. Treasuries, even at current interest rates.  The value of the dollar is its incredible stability, backed by the full faith of the world's most incredibly powerful military and economic engine, and the fact that it's 100% sovereign in nature.  These types of investments will outperform gold over any given 100-year or 200-year period, and to boot they are more stable, safer, and less subject to price volatility or speculative bubbles due to the incredible volume of currency used for legitimate business transactions, especially compared to gold, where the opposite is true.

Unless too many people have bought dollars out of fear.  Eventually people will relax, the spending will start and the USD bubble will deflate i.e. asset prices go up.  I guess though if a non-Paul wins, the fear may be perpetuated.

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December 31, 2011, 03:44:34 PM
 #18

Ron Paul supports "competing currencies".

So should he become President then that will probably mean a boon to gold and silver, and Bitcoin too.

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January 05, 2012, 06:59:06 PM
 #19

loool.

no insult or anything, but....you US-citizen (maybe for your own sake) don't know how silly your political debattes sometimes sound to people abroad^^  Kiss
not that our politicians are any better or there is more quality in the political debattes.. but still funny to watch Smiley

silver and gold in case of ron paul win

.. i have some alternatives to this fabulous thread-title:

joints and guns in case ron paul win

underpants and cancer in case newt gingrich win

change and yes-we-can in case obama sustains <- i like that one most

"damn! i just forgot what i wanted to say!" .. in case some teatard win

jesus christ and napalm bombs in case Mitt Romney win

"too damn high rent" and KARATE! in case jimmy McMillan win

burning more coal and praying against the debt crisis in case rick perry win


..to be continued Tongue
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