AI guidelines

[LTU_btc]

Finally some AI guidelines, it was really needed. AI is good thing when it's used for good purppose. But too much AI causes more harm than good. Still, these guidelines leaves lot of grey area and leaves lot of room for interpretation.. But I guess it's hard to make complete solution for this issue.

you can tell the AI to "Directly translate this text into Spanish: <something you wrote>"

How does this align with this rule:

27. Using automated translation tools to post translated content in Local boards is not allowed.

I assume this rule was created to stop people from posting their automated translations on many boards, and I don't think this should be allowed again. But I have found myself in the situation a few times where I wanted to respond to a post on a local board (usually after I was mentioned there), but couldn't do it, or only with a quote or in my shittiest handwritten German.

This rule is a bit outdated IMO. Back in 2014 and previoulsy translation tools worked quite poorly. It worked fine to translate separate words, but it wasn't able to translate fluent sentences or text. Now situation is different. Things like Google translate is working very well when you try to translate sentences or text. It's not much difference whether you will use AI or Google translate.
Still, I wouldn't like if users who can't write in English would be allowed to do it using AI. It's ok is specific cases like when you have some issue or want to ask question about something. But not when you want to farm sig. campaigns using AI

[GeorgeJohn]

It's heartbreaking and disheartening to people who is using artificial intelligence [AI] to make a  series of posts, This marks the end...Actually AI almost took over the forum standards...And this policy ban neither temporary or permanent, will be a propelling force that will scare the users of AI away...

Another important thing is that..how can the moderators different a post, the spelling is been corrected with Al..And a post that is been made or written throughout with AI..

In the aspects of low posting and quality posting, before place a low posters on ban by the moderators, how can the moderators evaluate or rate the low quality post before placing on ban?

[Btcdeybodi]

Nice one theymos, a direct ban will help reduce/eradicate the use of AI in the forum because it was becoming a pandemic as reports of AI generated texts floods the AI thread almost everyday! i don't know why some persons are too lazy to write their own posts.

- If you have the AI do almost a direct translation of something you wrote, then that's OK.

If AI is allowed to translate words, it then mean that most local boards will be filled with intruders. Despite that there is no restriction in making posts in any local board that one is not a citizen of that particular country but it doesn't make any sense to allow AI translation tools. This will contravene bitcointalk.org rules no.27 which states and i quote ''Using automated translation tools to post translated content in Local boards is not allowed''. However, if the idea of using AI translation tools is considered then bitcointalk.org rules no.27 should be amended or scrapped.

[nutildah]

Most of the time, I can't even get me to read the whole post if it's - as I like to call it - chatbot verbal diarrhae. It's just too terrible to process.

There are some telltale signs that make AI posts easily recognizable. Of course I think an account deserves a more official confirmation before being banned, but the point is I don't necessarily have to read the whole thing before knowing its worth double-checking. I'm actually surprised how these signs persist over multiple years now.

It must be somewhat harder to detect AI these days but most shitposters use it because its easy and fast. They don't want to be bothered with "humanizing" prompts, removing emdashes, introducing punctuation errors, etc. It might be faster to just crank out shitposts old fashioned style.

[philipma1957]

you can tell the AI to "Directly translate this text into Spanish: <something you wrote>"

How does this align with this rule:

27. Using automated translation tools to post translated content in Local boards is not allowed.

I assume this rule was created to stop people from posting their automated translations on many boards, and I don't think this should be allowed again. But I have found myself in the situation a few times where I wanted to respond to a post on a local board (usually after I was mentioned there), but couldn't do it, or only with a quote or in my shittiest handwritten German.

* I acknowledge that not nearly enough people are banned for low-quality posts. The fundamental issue is that we don't want to ban someone just for posting one or two stupid posts, since that's subjective and might just be due to the person having weird opinions or being a poor writer. So to evaluate a user properly, we really want to be reading a sampling of 20-40 of their posts. But doing this sort of evaluation (i.e. reading through hundreds of mediocre-to-bad posts) is really soul-sucking, so nobody wants to do it very much.

Good description: "soul-sucking". That's why I now often place them on Ignore after just one report, but if they're not banned, they'll keep spamming. Due to the lack of bans reporting their posts feels like such a massive waste of time, as it's takes much more time for a human to read than it takes for a bot to create it.

I'm still thinking about ways to resolve this issue, possibly involving rejiggering how merit works.

Just yesterday, I wrote down my realization that the Merit system is now luring shitposters to the tech boards:

When I visit the tech boards now, I see rows of posts made by shitposters who are already on my Ignore list. The tech boards used to be the best boards on this forum, free from spam, but thanks to chatbots and Merit, it's now getting spammed. In this case, I'd say the Merit system is counter productive.

I'm very optimistic about AI on the whole

I wish I was as optimistic as you are. Apart from having seen far too many movies that show how this can go wrong, I see it as more annoying in real life already. When I call a company for example, I get to talk to a machine because it's cheaper than an employee. I read more and more articles that don't make sense because it's obviously generated by a bot. I see it as mostly a very big money maker for very few people, and used for cheating by many others.

But doing this sort of evaluation (i.e. reading through hundreds of mediocre-to-bad posts) is really soul-sucking, so nobody wants to do it very much.

I'll do it. I feel like I could be pretty objective about it.

Most of the time, I can't even get me to read the whole post if it's - as I like to call it - chatbot verbal diarrhae. It's just too terrible to process.

my german was in high school and in college. it is poor to say the least.

but there are at least five people that post there that I like to talk to when they post in english.

I did use google translate and some of my own knowledge to attempt a few posts there in german and a few member said just use english.

frustrating as I may have improved my german a bit.

[MisFoxie]

 - If you have the AI do almost a direct translation of something you wrote, then that's OK. For example, you can tell the AI to "Directly translate this text into Spanish: <something you wrote>" or "Output the following text exactly as-is, except with any clear spelling or grammar mistakes fixed: <something you wrote>". It's not OK to tell an AI, "Improve this text: <something you wrote>", since then it will mostly rewrite it, and it risks becoming AI slop in the process.
 - Non-text AI content such as art is OK (subject to the normal rules).

When someone gets caught with AI genarated content people will abuse this rule by saying it was a translated version of my local language. So my opinion is If that person also tag it as AI translation and also add a link where he shows his original content it would make everything perfect.

For example:

I open this thread to focus a bit on the news that are published about Bitcoin, if it is to your liking.
Any new information in Spanish is welcome, since it is not very easy to find it without digging quite a lot in forums, blogs, or press articles.

Original content: https://pastebin.com/ENvejNzd

[LoyceV]

I did use google translate and some of my own knowledge to attempt a few posts there in german and a few member said just use english.

They told me the same, but posting in English on a local board doesn't seem right to me. But to my surprise, it's not even a requirement in the unofficial rules. So I keep it to the bare minimum.

[joker_josue]

I did use google translate and some of my own knowledge to attempt a few posts there in german and a few member said just use english.

They told me the same, but posting in English on a local board doesn't seem right to me. But to my surprise, it's not even a requirement in the unofficial rules. So I keep it to the bare minimum.

I'll give you an example, which has already happened on the Portuguese board.

Imagine that I'm going on vacation to Germany. I'm thinking: look, I can ask on the German forum for tips on visits and even about places that accept BTC as a form of payment.
So, I'll go to the German forum, start a thread, and ask. Logically, I'll translate it into German, but I'll also leave an English version.

Where am I breaking any rules in this? If we're a community meant to help each other, I don't see anything wrong with it. It's one thing to go there and make one or two quality posts (so to speak), it's quite another for me to go there and post in every thread and try to be involved in everything.

This rule was created to try and ensure that each local board is primarily intended for speakers of that language. Otherwise, there would be no point in having these types of boards. That's why I say that this rule is very often misinterpreted.






We are a community. Don't always look at everyone with suspicion, as if they are just nitpickers who are only here because of the subscription campaigns. Remember that Bitcoin has only reached this point today because of a true community spirit.

Yes, there are unscrupulous people who want to take advantage. But it's also true that the forum has always been a place where this was discovered, sooner or later.

To keep this debate as a matter of whether or not people should use translation tools in the forum is simply to want to limit the use of this forum and close it off to an even smaller group of people.

Don't try to restrict people's freedom of expression! Those who abuse this freedom should be punished.

Therefore, these ideas, which suggest that translation tools cannot be used or that you always have to indicate when a text is being translated, make no sense.

Those who write their own ideas and spend some time on the forum can usually tell when a text was created by AI or has been translated. When that suspicion arises, try interacting with the author of that text, and you'll soon be able to find out if it is true or not. We all have our own writing style. And that includes not only the text itself, but also how it is presented (aesthetically speaking).

Therefore, don't point the finger at everyone who contributes to the forum just because they use translators.
^{(I'm not talking about anyone in particular, but just the community in general. Please don't misinterpret my words.)}

[Ucy]

Concerning the soul stripping part, it's important to note that AI is great at taking up personalities. I don't want to explain this or how it's done so people don't abuse it. It's like deep fake of texts.

Anyway, thank you for the open mindedness, atleast it helps break the taboo on the use of AI. I thought that we need to be more specific on AI use rather than banning it completely since this forum is more like futuristic or forward thinking forum compared to fiat world that tends to have backward/primitive agenda regardless advancement in science and tech

Hope it would also be possible in the future to use AI to  enhance one's work without changing the actual meaning of the work since the main point of not encouraging people to use AI generated texts is to avoid copyright issues, lack of originality, pretending to own an AI generated work,  little to no effort put into the work, etc.  I think AI could be told to do that without "sounding" like AI, as long as the original meaning or user's idea is maintained

[Eternad]

Concerning the soul stripping part, it's important to note that AI is great at taking up personalities. I don't want to explain this or how it's done so people don't abuse it. It's like deep fake of texts.

Anyway, thank you for the open mindedness, atleast it helps break the taboo on the use of AI. I thought that we need to be more specific on AI use and rather than banning it completely since this forum is more like futuristic or forward think forum compared to fiat world that tend to have backward/primitive agenda regardless advancement in science and tech

We all know that it can’t be ban completely and the right approach is to properly regulate it to the extent of just removing those abusers that using it as way to stop using their brain cells to create a post that can contribute to Bitcointalk community.

AI is very helpful for a quick understanding on certain things I’m confused since it provides insights that easy to understand which I use as my basis for my opinion that I can share in the forum.

Personal knowledge and opinion should always be the foundation of everyone post here.

[Mpamaegbu]

So to evaluate a user properly, we really want to be reading a sampling of 20-40 of their posts. But doing this sort of evaluation (i.e. reading through hundreds of mediocre-to-bad posts) is really soul-sucking, so nobody wants to do it very much. I'm still thinking about ways to resolve this issue, possibly involving rejiggering how merit works.

That's the biggest one for me, honestly. I've seen a few accounts wrecked for one or two posts mistakes. Most of these errors were even committed in ignorance when those users were newbies and didn't know much about forum rules. Honestly, I like a situation where that evaluation taken from samplings of more posts (not the two or three posts as usual) will be put into consideration before any verdict of ban is made. Maybe something less that the 20–40 stretch you're looking at. I think a sample of 10–20 posts will do. Nice one theymos.

[Cricktor]

my german was in high school and in college. it is poor to say the least.
...
I did use google translate and some of my own knowledge to attempt a few posts there in german and a few member said just use english.

frustrating as I may have improved my german a bit.

German is my adopted native language and I'm living for the most part of my life in Germany and of all languages I can communicate with it's the one I know best.

Personally I don't mind any post written in bad German or translated German or in English when the non-German poster explains why they post in the local German boards. Usually non-Germans have or should have some valid reasons and that's fine for me.

So my personal advise to you is: explain why you want to post in (doesn't matter for me if in bad) German and add your English part, too. I would be totally fine if you wanted to brush up your German and a fluent English parts makes it easy to understand and possibly even correct your mistakes in German if that's what you wanted. Why not?

I don't really see a clash with rule #27 in such cases. I assume rule #27 wants also to prevent that someone pretends to be a local but that is usually easy to spot for native speakers.

I'm not posting that much in the German board, but can't remember that valid international posters there were met with hostility when they posted in English and had some reasons to do so.

If I quote or address @someone in the local German part, then it's absolutely fine with me if they chime in with English. On the other hand I wouldn't want other international languages than English in "my local board".

Posting in English language in other language's local boards should be an exception and one should have understandable reasons for it. If you can't judge and fix an automated translation then better don't use it in local boards without the English source text.


Regarding AI guidelines, I would really love a stricter rule that any AI generated and/or enhanced and/or transcripted content be properly marked as such. This should be quite mandatory. Therefore I would highly support the idea of an AI BBcode tag. If this is too complicated or cumbersome to implement then use proper [quote="AI slop"][/quote] tags and frankly make it mandatory because it shouldn't be easy to spam the forum with AI content.

I'm sick of reading AI slop and spending valuable time to judge if this is valid or crap or half-valid/half-crap. Quote your sources!

The lazies who quickly and mostly effort-lessly inflate their post count with AI vomit are the problem. They mostly fill-up the forum with unoriginal AI slop and vomit and rarely add any value to topics or newly created threads. And the lazies either "work" to get in paid campaigns or sort of spam the forum when already in some paid campaign to reach the max payout.

I would be very fine if more temporary bans were issued because this is what hurts those people. Had a recent temporary ban? Make the next ones progressivly longer. I would also have no issue if temporary bans are logged as neutral in the trust entries of an account.

[libert19]

Ah! Something big in meta. Seems generous tbh. Personally, I don't want to see any AI material, write/create original even if it may be not perfect; I mean how will one improve if you use AI to perfect your material?

I write so many freaking posts and I mostly do it in James Joyce stream of continuous [spelled that wrong]

In the very near future, we will see AI with a communication style similar to philipma1957, or anyone else whose posting style is quite recognizable and individual.

I am of the opinion that AI can never replicate a real human. Humans evolve — their habits and behaviors change while AI will try to replicate philipma1957 based on fed data without having any substance, no originality.

In the end, the artificial philipma1957 will depend on original philipma1957 for everything, doesn't that tell you everything that you need to know?

(^ I am not feeling confident on it, because I just remembered how good is deep fake videos, and how often I keep getting fooled by those but still posting anyway cause I feel it still makes some sense)

... The genie is out of the bottle.

And people's brains are gonna go to gutters.

...

...Due to the lack of bans reporting their posts feels like such a massive waste of time, as it's takes much more time for a human to read than it takes for a bot to create it.

This was beautiful to read!

...Another important thing is that..how can the moderators different a post, the spelling is been corrected with Al...

Bruh, spelling? I use keyboard that auto corrects spellings for me — shouldn't be a problem, is it?

[KingsDen]

Another important thing is that..how can the moderators different a post, the spelling is been corrected with Al..And a post that is been made or written throughout with AI..

A simple question but somehow complex to answer.

When a post is corrected grammatical by an AI, it is automatically assumed that the AI wrote it. Even if you are in doubt and test the write up with an AI detector, it will surely say that it was written by an AI.

So, the solution here remains that the moderator will read the post thoroughly and determine how much emotion is in the post and how connected it is with the existing posts (conversation).

[libert19]

Another important thing is that..how can the moderators different a post, the spelling is been corrected with Al..And a post that is been made or written throughout with AI..

...

So, the solution here remains that the moderator will read the post thoroughly and determine how much emotion is in the post and how connected it is with the existing posts (conversation).

[EarnOnVictor]

It's heartbreaking and disheartening to people who is using artificial intelligence [AI] to make a  series of posts, This marks the end..
Another important thing is that..how can the moderators different a post, the spelling is been corrected with Al..And a post that is been made or written throughout with AI.

This marks the end? I hope so, but the fight against this kind of thing is gradual and the approach used to tackle it matters so much. It got worse and so annoying to the point that some would still write nonsense with the AI. This means it's an automated functions linked directly to the forum, which is unforgivable.

LoyceV neutral tagged a user recently, and when I was reading the post, for which he was tagged, I was angry within me, to tell you how annoying these guys could be.

In the aspects of low posting and quality posting, before place a low posters on ban by the moderators, how can the moderators evaluate or rate the low quality post before placing on ban?

This is where the issue lies, and I hope the admin and moderators apply wisdom here. It's not everybody who can write well in English or express themselves constructively. Well, they (admin/mods) should see souls in posts as the means for their final verdicts.

I also implore people to improve in themselves, as some don't deserve any excuse. It's disgraceful to be in the forum actively for 2,3,4,5 years and still writing like an elementary school pupil.