Proposal: Consensus rule to recover 79,956 BTC stolen from MtGox

[NilacTheGrim]

If you want this proposal to succeed -- this is what you need to do:

- Fork Bitcoin Core and offer a release that is identical but just has this 1 change, with the height NOT set to INT_MAX.
- Talk to some major mining pools and get them to install your version. You need >50% hash on board and committed.
- They will refuse unless you make it worth their while. You need to provide incentives for them -- perhaps cut them in on 1% or 5% of the pot, as a "recovery fee".
- Sign contracts with all pools that agree to run this client and signal for its activation via coinbase scriptsig
  - They should get payouts that are proportional to their hash.

You need to appeal to miners, not the developers, to get this done.  

See if it's legally possible to cut the miners in to the pot. Even 1% of 80k BTC is 800 BTC, which is $48 million. If you can up it to 5% of the pot, that's ~$250 million.  Miners might be enticed by such a pot. It's not unheard of for recovery fees in extraordinary circumstances like this to be a thing. Create a legal framework for one and offer it to miners that mine on your client.

You won't get the developers to do it but miners may. Miners are really the power behind Bitcoin.

[Knight Hider]

This is a hard fork

Then just do that. You will have just yet another altcoin. Why do you need to get Core's approval? All existing nodes will reject your hard-fork anyway, even if Core would release a new version with your changes.

What activation mechanism?

None. Activation mechanisms are for soft-forks. For hard-forks, you just release a new version, and you are good to go. Welcome to the altcoin world!

Should there be a time-limited recovery window (e.g. 1 year) after which the rule expires?

It will be rejected by all existing nodes, so nobody cares. You can do whatever you want. It doesn't matter if you allow moving coins without valid signatures, or if you double the supply. Hard-fork will kick you to the altcoin world anyway.

You're underestimating how many people have skin in the game here  

Millions of bitcoin users have skin in the game, but not the way you're suggesting.

[retreat]

-snip-
You won't get the developers to do it but miners may. Miners are really the power behind Bitcoin.

If they have so much money to mobilize miners, why would they even bother submitting this proposal? This is the cheapest way to do it so this proposal was made LMAO.

But like everyone else, I don't think the existing nodes will accept this because it's basically the same as intervening in Bitcoin. And if it is accepted, it will only open the door to further intervention in the future. That's my opinion.

[BobLawblaw]

Go fuck yourself violently with a rusted length of 5 1/2” pipe

[NilacTheGrim]

If they have so much money to mobilize miners, why would they even bother submitting this proposal? This is the cheapest way to do it so this proposal was made LMAO.

Two possible explanations I can think of:

- Karpeles tried the "cheap" route first with community buy-in, and if that fails, he may escalate to having to cut a deal with the creditors <-> miners & exchanges ... lotta leg work to do and lots of headaches to organize. Maybe he only tried the easy cheap route first?
- Karpeles is under some legal obligation now to make a "best effort" attempt to get the funds returned, so he is executing on that... so this attempt is more performative than it is serious.

[stompix]

You need to appeal to miners, not the developers, to get this done.  

See if it's legally possible to cut the miners in to the pot. Even 1% of 80k BTC is 800 BTC, which is $48 million. If you can up it to 5% of the pot, that's ~$250 million.  Miners might be enticed by such a pot. It's not unheard of for recovery fees in extraordinary circumstances like this to be a thing. Create a legal framework for one and offer it to miners that mine on your client.

You won't get the developers to do it but miners may. Miners are really the power behind Bitcoin.

This would be the death of Bitcoin!

The moment the miners collude to do something like this, there will be obviously the question of what they will do next, with Foundry being a closed US pool with Mara on top of that and plus god knows how much hashrate being from US companies hidden in other pools like ViaBTC one will obviously ask, what happens when Trump orders those companies to seize every cold wallet he doesn't like the first letters of?

Any miner and any pool that would even ponder on this scenario should be boycotted and shunned by every true bitcoiner!
This is not opening a can of worms, this is not Pandora's box this is suicide!

[DaveF]

There is no reason to do this.
Since the beginning lost / stolen / non retrievable for whatever reason has always been lost / stolen / non retrievable.

Would there be a line? 50k BTC lost 10kBTC lost? 0.5BTC lost?

Nope, it's locked there forever. That's the point.

No keys, no coins.

-Dave

[PrivacyG]

These would be going through the Japanese courts and trustee having jurisdiction over the MtGox bankruptcy case. It's not a perfect solution but considering the number of creditors it's probably the best.

As to criminal addresses (scams, etc), most exchanges are already blocking these from being redeemed, and some miners will not accept said txs. This is not yet a bitcoin-whole rule but will likely evolve over time.

I do not know that people will distrust Bitcoin for allowing people to recover a bit of their loss. If anything this could be fairly positive overall.

And as I said, then we could help set up some institutions all around the World to decide whether the Bitcoin sent three minutes ago should be in the hands of the new owner or should be returned.  How does this sound?  Or.  Is this problem too 'unique' and the ONLY problem to solve at all?

You are trying to fix this problem caused by pretty much the victims as in they had Trust in a Third Party and the Third Party failed them, by turning Bitcoin in to any other Shit Coin.  Yes, people will distrust Bitcoin considering you are trying to change what it was initially thought to be.  Make Lamborghini start producing tractors instead of super cars and watch the people run away like hell.  You are changing the core of it.

If others can get to decide what happens with my Bitcoin, even if there is a SMALL probability that it may happen, that is not going to be some thing I am interested in.  This would be 'fairly positive' to the rest of the people who are in to Bitcoin particularly for the financial gains and who run with absolutely any thing new if it could make them more Money.  And yes there are a lot of these people.  But Bitcoin matters to me and a 'handful' of others for the values of Freedom it comes with.  Take that away and we are most probably going to be out.

[bitdaryl]

Nope. Risk > reward

[bitdaryl]

Wait, is this just a way to scare them into moving the coins?

[NotFuzzyWarm]

<snip> Make Lamborghini start producing tractors instead of super cars and watch the people run away like hell.  You are changing the core of it.
<snip>
 

Not wanting to go OT but - Lamborghini was started as a company that makes tractors and they still do. Watch Clarkston Farms on Prime Video so see one of their very nice current ones...

Lamborghini Trattori, was founded in 1948 by Ferruccio Lamborghini, is headquartered in Pieve di Cento, Italy, and continues to produce tractors. Since 1973, Lamborghini Trattori has been a separate entity from the Lamborghini's automobile division.  Lambo got into the supercar market in 1963 to compete with Ferrari. Oh, FYI Ferrari also makes heavy equipment...

That said, as I've said earlier, BTC being immutable is it's key distinction between it and most if not all other crypto coins.

[gmaxwell]

Miners are free to mine blocks that are invalid to Bitcoin--  everyone with a clue will happily take the income they left behind.

But hey, Mark you just had a leading BCH developer tell you how to do it there: apparently on BCH miners are all that matters.  These assets exist over there too.  Better get on it.

[Zaguru12]

Any miner and any pool that would even ponder on this scenario should be boycotted and shunned by every true bitcoiner!
This is not opening a can of worms, this is not Pandora's box this is suicide!

I actually saw this thread from the other forum and I didn’t take it seriously but seeing it I don’t want to sound too harsh but seriously i don’t understand why the OP actually even decided to think this through and brought it. Didn’t OP actually ask himself where do we go from here if this happens? Or does OP actually thinks that MtGox it’s that super important than others in this space.

What happens to the whole decentralized network of a thing when one entity can eat their cake and still have it. Or OP should have also proposed that this act of kindness should also be extended to others who have reportedly had their wallet hacked in the past and also should be a thing in the future.

I bet this once a particular miner or node even consider this, that’s an agitation for centralization in my opinion. Topics like this should be dead on arrival which I think it is already

[asso79]

This proposal has zero chance of passing and sets a dangerous precedent. The entire value proposition of Bitcoin is immutability — transactions cannot be reversed, no matter the circumstance. The moment you introduce a consensus rule to recover stolen funds, you've created a mechanism that can be used again by whoever controls enough hash power or political influence. Mt. Gox creditors waited 10 years and received partial compensation through legal channels.

[Vlad BTCTKVR]

Today I've interviewed Mark Karpelès and asked him about his considerations about the fork proposal. Even suggested that he should talk to the BSV guys to give him the coins, since they brag about being compliant with courts of law and they modified their network to make UTXO confiscation possible 

Anyway, you can hear what Mark has to say at the 1h 44m mark: https://www.youtube.com/live/NF8cvHpUpHk?si=Nd_mCuhK_ECT8Y1_

Also available in audio format, for those of you who hate YouTube or have low bandwidth: https://bitcoin-takeover.com/audio/index.php?name=2026-03-01_s16_e10_mark_karpeles_on_mt._gox_80000_bitcoins_chief_p_ssy.mp3

Soon, Spotify & Apple Podcasts will refresh the RSS feed to display this interview too.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Wait, is this just a way to scare them into moving the coins?

Yes, sure. The diamond hands hacker hasn't spent a satoshi for over a decade after softforks and quantum FUDs, but one of the dumbest proposals will scare him to move them all. 

You need to appeal to miners, not the developers, to get this done.

Actually, you need to appeal everyone. This is a protocol change, which is traditionally done with a Bitcoin Improvement Proposal. He has to appeal developers as well.

[Joementum]

This proposal has zero chance of passing and sets a dangerous precedent. The entire value proposition of Bitcoin is immutability — transactions cannot be reversed, no matter the circumstance. The moment you introduce a consensus rule to recover stolen funds, you've created a mechanism that can be used again by whoever controls enough hash power or political influence. Mt. Gox creditors waited 10 years and received partial compensation through legal channels.

There was a transaction that satoshi didn't like and it got reversed.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1o8gn17/the_day_bitcoin_almost_died_184_billion_btc/

So this argument is historically void.

[Ambatman]

I've opened a pull request on Bitcoin Core to discuss a one-time consensus rule that would allow the ~79,956 BTC stolen in the 2011 MtGox hack to be recovered and returned to creditors.

Then what next? Lost coins are getting too much we should find a way to access satoshi's
One time is how multiple times started
And what's Bitcoin if it's immutability is being questioned.

See if it's legally possible to cut the miners in to the pot. Even 1% of 80k BTC is 800 BTC, which is $48 million. If you can up it to 5% of the pot, that's ~$250 million.  Miners might be enticed by such a pot. It's not unheard of for recovery fees in extraordinary circumstances like this to be a thing. Create a legal framework for one and offer it to miners that mine on your client.

And you believe Bitcoin would be worth as much if something like this happens
Under $10K would be an optimistic estimate
Reminds me of the fable of the Golden hen.

[Lucius]

This is one of those moments where you wonder how someone who has already done enormous damage to Bitcoin is proposing an idea to make Bitcoin a shitcoin. When he already has a hard fork in mind, why not change a few more lines of code and increase the max supply to 22 million with an immediate increase in the reward for miners so that everyone is happy and satisfied

[barbara44]

Obviously this is a terrible horrible idea and will never happen. The entire point of bitcoin is that whatever happens, it's in the past and there is no rolling it back. Today if you do it for mt.gox then tomorrow you do it for FTX and the next day you will do it for some other scam, there is no end to it and will always stay as a scam chasing.

We are not going to it, you are not going to convince anyone to do this, the only people who would be ok with this would be people who lost money on mt.gox and nobody else would be okay with it. It is not just about this one time deal, it's about the fact that if you do it once then there is going to be request for more and this is the main reason why we will never even consider this.