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Author Topic: Good news for bitcoin!  (Read 2032 times)
incraft3817
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December 27, 2011, 08:50:12 AM
 #1

The Feds decided to legalize online poker!

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-may-permit-many-forms-of-net-gambling-2011-12-25
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December 27, 2011, 08:53:09 AM
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Huh. News is news i suppose. Hmm. Funny, It was illegal? Whats with all the "pokerstars.net" etcetcetc that are ALL ABOUT online poker? Those just "not hosted in US therefore not illegal"

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December 27, 2011, 09:09:33 AM
 #3

Isn't this bad news for Bitcoin?

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December 27, 2011, 09:55:54 AM
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Huh. News is news i suppose. Hmm. Funny, It was illegal? Whats with all the "pokerstars.net" etcetcetc that are ALL ABOUT online poker? Those just "not hosted in US therefore not illegal"

Pokerstars.net is a clever concept.  It's a free play site where it's impossible to use real money.  PS gets to advertise its wares while remaining 100% legal in the USA.  The fact that the other version of Pokerstars shares the same base name is sheer coincidence  Cheesy

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December 27, 2011, 10:00:13 AM
 #5

Isn't this bad news for Bitcoin?

AFAIK, none of the large poker sites take bitcoins now anyway.  Pokerstars certainly doesn't.  The method of payment doesn't change the fact that online non-play money poker is illegal to offer to USA citizens.

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December 27, 2011, 02:55:28 PM
 #6


Huh. News is news i suppose. Hmm. Funny, It was illegal? Whats with all the "pokerstars.net" etcetcetc that are ALL ABOUT online poker? Those just "not hosted in US therefore not illegal"

Pokerstars had ~$300M in funds frozen and sued for $1B by the DOJ who was also seeking in reim forfeiture of all assets involved in the alleged crimes.
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December 27, 2011, 02:57:30 PM
 #7

Isn't this bad news for Bitcoin?

In the short term possibly but dealing w/ poker rooms for deposits and withdraws is a total pain in the ass.  Poker rooms make a good place to "launder" stolen credit cards so the checks and counter checks, and delays, and verifications requried to just put a dent into the billions of dollars a year in credit card fraud really suck.

Bitcoin "could" eliminate all that.  If all deposits are via bitcoins and all withdraws are via bitcoin then the poker room is exposed to no fraud risk.  Cashouts could be instantaneous. 
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December 27, 2011, 09:24:16 PM
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Isn't this bad news for Bitcoin?

In the short term possibly but dealing w/ poker rooms for deposits and withdraws is a total pain in the ass.  Poker rooms make a good place to "launder" stolen credit cards so the checks and counter checks, and delays, and verifications requried to just put a dent into the billions of dollars a year in credit card fraud really suck.

Bitcoin "could" eliminate all that.  If all deposits are via bitcoins and all withdraws are via bitcoin then the poker room is exposed to no fraud risk.  Cashouts could be instantaneous. 
Eh, Instanainous in the sense that the payment has be issued right away, But the block chain is still going to have to Confirm everything, So, Not instant, GREAT IDEA THO

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December 27, 2011, 09:42:27 PM
 #9

I think if poker becomes legal in the minds of US citizens, more are likely to partake than would if it's illegal... in other words, those who consider it recreational, but not fun enough to break the law.

Bitcoin is still a great way to fund poker.

Here in Utah many are Mormon, and Mormonism forbids gambling.  I could see people here playing poker with bitcoins just so as to have no record exist they did it.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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December 28, 2011, 12:19:16 AM
 #10

Isn't this bad news for Bitcoin?

In the short term possibly but dealing w/ poker rooms for deposits and withdraws is a total pain in the ass.  Poker rooms make a good place to "launder" stolen credit cards so the checks and counter checks, and delays, and verifications requried to just put a dent into the billions of dollars a year in credit card fraud really suck.

Bitcoin "could" eliminate all that.  If all deposits are via bitcoins and all withdraws are via bitcoin then the poker room is exposed to no fraud risk.  Cashouts could be instantaneous. 

Bitcoin doesn't solve the problem of fraud.  It just protects the gambling site.

What if someone's stolen wallet is used to make the deposit?

What if the money launderer chooses to buy bitcoins with their stolen money and then make the deposit in bitcoins?


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December 28, 2011, 06:53:56 AM
 #11


Bitcoin doesn't solve the problem of fraud.  It just protects the gambling site.

What if someone's stolen wallet is used to make the deposit?

What if the money launderer chooses to buy bitcoins with their stolen money and then make the deposit in bitcoins?



What if people protected their property?

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Gerald Davis


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December 28, 2011, 02:06:35 PM
 #12

Isn't this bad news for Bitcoin?

In the short term possibly but dealing w/ poker rooms for deposits and withdraws is a total pain in the ass.  Poker rooms make a good place to "launder" stolen credit cards so the checks and counter checks, and delays, and verifications requried to just put a dent into the billions of dollars a year in credit card fraud really suck.

Bitcoin "could" eliminate all that.  If all deposits are via bitcoins and all withdraws are via bitcoin then the poker room is exposed to no fraud risk.  Cashouts could be instantaneous.  

Bitcoin doesn't solve the problem of fraud.  It just protects the gambling site.

What if someone's stolen wallet is used to make the deposit?

What if the money launderer chooses to buy bitcoins with their stolen money and then make the deposit in bitcoins?



It isn't the job of a poker site to "solve" the concept of fraud.  Poker sites are simply looking to reduce THEIR losses.

Player A uses stolen credit card to deposit $1000
Player A loses all his poker chips to Player B.
Player B withdraws $1000.
Stolen credit card user notifies bank who charges back poker room the $1000.  They close account A but the money is gone.
Poker room loses $1000.  Those losses contribute to Poker Room operating cost (and thus high rake).

The thieves aren't looking to play poker using stolen funds.  They are using poker room to convert stolen credit cards into cash.  Imagine the same process but with dozens of "winning player" accounts and hundreds of stolen cards.  Very effective way to funnel hundreds of thousands of dollars off stolen credit card into cold hard cash.

If you lose your wallet the theif doesn't need poker room.  They already have "cash" (equivalent).
If thief has cash he has no need to buy Bitcoins or make deposits in Bitcoins.

BTW Yes Bitcoin DOES (partially) solve the issue of fraud.  There is no such thing as a fraudulent Bitcoin purchase.  Your Bitcoins can be stolen but they can't be used fraudulently.  There is no identity or ownership established with your Bitcoins.  Possession is ownership.  Much like if a thief takes $500 from your wallet he hasn't committed fraud he has committed theft.  While you may find that distinction dubious there are real world implications.

Comparison of three crimes.

Thief steals $500 from your wallet.
Thief buys goods w/ stolen money.  <- not a crime
Store suffers no loss and has no risk.

Thief steals your credit card.
Thief uses it to purchase $500 in goods.  <-a secondary crime
Store or bank suffers the loss.  <- responsible parties subsidize your inability to protect your own assets

Thief steals your Bitcoin wallet (w/ $500 equivalent)
Thief buys goods w/ stolen coins.  <- not a crime
Store suffers no loss and has no risk.

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December 28, 2011, 09:14:35 PM
 #13

<snip>
Comparison of three crimes.

Thief steals $500 from your wallet.
Thief buys goods w/ stolen money.  <- not a crime
Store suffers no loss and has no risk.

Thief steals your credit card.
Thief uses it to purchase $500 in goods.  <-a secondary crime
Store or bank suffers the loss.  <- responsible parties subsidize your inability to protect your own assets

Thief steals your Bitcoin wallet (w/ $500 equivalent)
Thief buys goods w/ stolen coins.  <- not a crime
Store suffers no loss and has no risk.


Someone skilled in such things should make a poster out of this information.

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December 29, 2011, 06:24:33 AM
 #14

It's definitely true that the motivation to use bitcoins is for the merchants.

Merchants are going to benefit from irreversible transactions (no charge backs).  That's why they need to lead the charge for using bitcoins.

Given how large the online poker world is, this is great news!

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