Bird singing contest or hidden gambling?

[Toro iskandar]

https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d514e3251444e7a457a6333566d54/index.html

After previously creating this thread, I thought about other legal gambling activities that exist in countries that completely prohibit gambling activities.

In some countries, gambling is officially illegal. The law clearly prohibits betting activities. However, in reality there are still some activities that look very similar to gambling but are still allowed. One example is bird singing competitions.

In these competitions, participants bring their birds and register them by paying an entry fee. The birds are judged based on their singing quality, rhythm, and performance. At the end of the competition, the winners receive cash prizes and trophies.

Even though this is considered a hobby competition, there are some elements that resemble gambling:

• Participants pay entry fees
• There are prize pools for winners
• Sometimes people make side bets on which bird will win

Because of this, some people think this is a form of legal gambling, even in a country that bans gambling.
Others say it is just a competition and hobby, not gambling.

What do you think?
Should activities like bird singing competitions be considered gambling or just a normal contest with prizes?

[un_rank]

• Participants pay entry fees
• There are prize pools for winners
• Sometimes people make side bets on which bird will win

This is the format for almost any competition style event out there. Participants pay some form of entry fee and they compete for the grand price with winners decided based on their performance. This is worlds apart to what actual gambling is, if you are to categorize this as such then almost every event in the country will be banned.

Side bets cannot be controlled. My mate and I could make a side bet on a football match in one of those countries that gambling is banned, I am sure I will not be committing a crime and it cannot be tracked even.

- Jay -

[uchegod-21]

I don't know how the winner is determined; is is determined by which bird sings best or which bird is the first to sing? If there is nothing that suggests that luck determines the winner, then this may not be fit to be considered gambling. Buying tickets and paying entry fees is not enough to call a game gambling. People go to clubs and parks to have fun and play games. They buy tickets and pay entry fees and that is not gambling. What this bird competition looks like to me is just a competition that showcases the skills of these birds. The only thing that qualifies as gambling is the side bets people make.

[acroman08]

What do you think?
Should activities like bird singing competitions be considered gambling or just a normal contest with prizes?

It's a contest. Why would it be considered as gambling? This is literally a very common system for a contest out there, and if this is considered gambling, then a lot of contests out there that have a similar system should also be considered gambling. As for people doing side bets, those are very common in a lot of contests, too, though it is usually illegal for the contestants to do that themselves.

[mcdouglasx]

I don't think this constitutes illegal gambling since it's basically a contest. People betting among friends isn't illegal; what's illegal is creating a place where people go exclusively to gamble, like a betting booth. That's the illegal part. But I suppose it depends on the country, as these laws can change radically. For example, in some countries, locals can't gamble in casinos, but foreigners can; in others, the laws are mixed. So it all depends on where you are.

[Nwada001]

This is the format for almost any competition style event out there. Participants pay some form of entry fee and they compete for the grand price with winners decided based on their performance. This is worlds apart to what actual gambling is, if you are to categorize this as such then almost every event in the country will be banned.

What the OP has described could be seen and regarded as a normal contest, a singing competition, or whatever they can tag it as, and it's not necessarily gambling. Even in places where gambling is legal, such events exist and are very common. People who like to stake their money on something who are live at the event could undergo some side bets, but the event itself can't really be regarded as betting.

[whiteblue]

I remember someone saying on this forum that contests can be gambling and they can be not, more or less like this, it depends on where the prize of the contest winners comes from, if the prize comes from the registration money of the participants then it can be said that they are gambling, but if the prize that is given is from the sponsor or organizer of the contest then it is not said to be gambling, the term is that they give the prize murini from another pocket (looks not like people who bet).
I'm not sure if this is enough to be included in the rules, I'm a bit skeptical because it's not very clear and I forgot the full sentence to understand, but I think it's enough to give you an idea.

[masulum]

I don't think this competition categorized as gambling, because this is judge by a quality and skill not just a random results. Let say the winner pay the entry $10 to get $1000 prize. to get $1000 prize, someone need to bring the best bird he have, it's become a real product that can compete with other to win that prize. while in gambling you put your money for betting, without a product, just choosing based on your analysis, and put your choice that you are betting as the right choice from your perspective. this very different with that contest, because the bird need to show the quality to win. while betting you put your money just to get money from random outcome.

why playing card also called as betting not event or competition? because you put your money for the prize pool, while in event, mostly prize pool from sponsors and entry fee for event organizer operational. IMO

[uneng]

Since there are people placing bets on which birds they think will win, then of course it's a kind of gambling. There is money at stake, and people involved on this activity are taking risks in order to try leaving the event with more money than they had previously.

Probably it's just not an issue for the local authorities because the amount of money involved is too low, besides it being a seasonal event, right? If people were engaged on bird singing in a daily basis, while dropping lots of money on it, then you would see the practice being immediately stopped by regulators.

[Gozie51]

What do you think?
Should activities like bird singing competitions be considered gambling or just a normal contest with prizes?

I believe this depends. It can be called gambling if the organizer ask for money from any of them to put the competition together because they will now have interest more because of the money that they have contributed. But if the organizer did everything by himself and not requiring support from competitors then it is a competition. For an act to be known and called gambling, those involved would have used or added their own money to it. So in the case of bird singing, if the owners of the bird are not required to put a registration amount or other financial obligations, then it is fun or competition.

However, I have not known this type of bird singing. It is strange to me and how would owners control their birds to be quiet when another bird is being accessed

[Charles-Tim]

What do you think?
Should activities like bird singing competitions be considered gambling or just a normal contest with prizes?

I will differ in different regions, but with what you explained above, I will need to ask two questions before I can consider it as gambling or not.

How much is the fee each participants pay?
Also how much is won?

If the fee is used to service the competitors, it is just a legal gambling.

[Hispo]

I am not completely sure this is some kind of hidden gambling in countries where it is forbidden.
Gambling highly depends on elements like random number generation and entropy, in reality, one person can train and encourage their birds to sing by some conditioning.
Also there is the fact the winner of those contests are decided by a group if judges, which completely eliminates the entropy and the random number generation factor from the outcome.

If one has a bird of an species which is very known for being very good at singing, there are more chances for one to win money. So it does not quality as actual gambling.

[Hatchy]

• Participants pay entry fees
• There are prize pools for winners
• Sometimes people make side bets on which bird will win

Because of this, some people think this is a form of legal gambling, even in a country that bans gambling.
Others say it is just a competition and hobby, not gambling.

What do you think?
Should activities like bird singing competitions be considered gambling or just a normal contest with prizes?

Since it's allowed as a competition in the first place then I guess it will be monitored to avoid any form of gambling. But participants can secretly place bets on specific birds to win. It's gambling but may not be known publicly. These kinds of competition style is common. People do pay entry fees to participate in beauty pageants, and some other kind of contest created for fun. Though we don't want to look at it from the angle of being gambling. It's completely different. I was also thinking, the price pool might be raised from the fee paid to participate. Definitely if there's a large number of participants then the pool would be bigger for the winners..

[Z-tight]

It is a competition/contest, it is surely not gambling. The side bets are normal, it is just an agreement between two people, with no middleman or stuff like that. If there was a body controlling the bets on the birds, then that is now organized gambling and the government would go after them.

However, i would really love to attend something like this and watch birds compete in a singing competition, sounds like so much fun if you ask me and a good 'recreational' activity.

[Odogwu-Blockchain]

Because of this, some people think this is a form of legal gambling, even in a country that bans gambling.
Others say it is just a competition and hobby, not gambling.
What do you think?
Should activities like bird singing competitions be considered gambling or just a normal contest with prizes?

Gambling has to do with staking certain amount of money for rewards if the predictions goes right, of it fails, you losses your money. That's how gambling works.

If these people actually going to predict the right bird that sings perfect, there will be rewards, isn't it, then that's gambling.

This kind of gambling is social in nature and doesn't seems too harsh and brutal to the player, it cannot cause addiction because it the game is not practice everyday but once in a while maybe once a year or something. Should be the reasons why the government of such country should accept this kinda gambling.

[taufik123]

Actually, activities or competitions like this are not prohibited and in my country there are also quite many enthusiasts.
This is called the "Kicau Mania" Competition, the bird with the best chirping will be the winner and I don't think there is any prohibition if this is just a competition and people pay the registration fee.

What is not allowed is those who try to make a bet on which bird will win, this is outside of the competition.
As with any contest or sports match, betting always happens not on the internal event, but on the spectators and fans who make their own bets.

[FinneysTrueVision]

Gambling involves an element of competition, whether you are competing against other player or the house, but an organized competition is just a simple contest if winners are determined by skill and not luck. A bird singing contest is obviously not gambling because winning is dependent on each bird’s abilities. There are things like loot boxes and prediction market trading that are far more debatable as to whether they are gambling or not.

[Asiska02]

I will consider this as a normal competition and not a form of gambling. If this is the case of what we would call gambling, then even the football that is being played will be considered one which is not. I think until there is an open bet in a casino or a forum that places these owners of birds there to bet on, that’s when it can be considered a form of gambling.

Paying an entry fee and given prices to the winner is a normal practice we know of any competition that wants to take place even in schools or community footballs, I won’t consider this gambling or anything close to it until there is an open bet on those teams that are participating in the bird singing competition from a casino.

[Rruchi man]

Even though this is considered a hobby competition, there are some elements that resemble gambling:

• Participants pay entry fees

A major difference between this pattern and the one you think is the same as gambling and gambling itself is that in gambling there is no restriction on the gambler's specific amount of money to use, like the fixed entry fee, and they go ahead with different amounts of money for some gamblers, the amount of money they can lose, while some other gamblers do not actually have money and gamble with what they can afford to lose.

[danherbias07]

If that is the case, then even sports events will be considered as gambling.

It's an event. A competition. It's not gambling. The entry fee will be used for the prize, and maybe some of it will go to whatever charity the event chooses, or if they need funds to come up with the next idea for a competition. Then, consider the electricity bill, and the rent of the place where it will occur.

If it's not listed on sports bookies or other types of bookies, I don't think it's gambling. Owners can bet against each other, but that's just for fun. I don't think that's illegal. I always bet against my friends and neighbors when a big sports event happens, but we don't consider it gambling. It's just ways to pump up the entertainment factor of the sport.