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Author Topic: My censored reply to Galois Field on the Google list.  (Read 84 times)
PepeLapiu (OP)
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March 18, 2026, 04:52:10 AM
Last edit: March 19, 2026, 08:48:14 PM by PepeLapiu
 #1

Here you can see the email from Galois on the Google devs email  list:
https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/Q6ulQb13okg

My repeated attempts at replying to him were censored by the admins, so I though I would post it here.

------------------


Hi Galois, Claire, the list.

Quote
The problem is that you're redefining "spam" to mean "transactions I don't like" rather than using the technical definition: transactions that DoS the network.

Citation needed. Nowhere did I state that spam is "transactions I don't like". Spam on bitcoin is any data that is non-monetary and not required for bitcoin to function as money. Garbage like BRC tokens or jpegs are good examples of spam.

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Inscriptions, ordinals, OP_RETURN: these are consensus-valid transactions that pay fees. Miners choose to include them. That's not spam, that's the fee market working.

Of course the spammer paid his miner fee, or it would not have made it onto a block. Or course the tx was consensus valid, or it would not have made it into a block. Of course a miner chose to add it to his block, or it would not have made it into a block.

But that is like saying the Nigerian prince paid his internet bill, his email followed all the SMPT and  POP protocols, and my ISP chose to send the email to my inbox, therefore the Nigerian Prince email is not spam and must not be discarded.

Anything that is not intended to send or receive bitcoin is spam on the bitcoin chain.

Quote
You can disagree with the use case, but calling it an "attack" is disingenuous.

I'm not the only one who disagrees with your "use case". See what Satoshi had to say about your " use case" here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5575199.msg66431361#msg66431361

Quote
Your email spam analogy is backwards: email spam is unwanted by the recipient. Here, miners ARE the recipients, and they're explicitly accepting these transactions by including them in blocks.

You are taking my analogy too far. The point of my analogy is that of course the spammer paid his internet bill or paid his miner fee. If all the spammers stopped paying their internet bill or their miner fees, spam wouldn't be a problem.

Of course the spammer followed all the email protocols or the consensus rules. If he had not, spam would not be a problem.

And of course my ISP forwarded the email to me or the miner added it to a block. Otherwise the spam would not be a problem.

You, yourself, Galois, understand very well that money is the only supported and sanctioned use case of bitcoin. Which is why you work so hard at making your BTC tokens look like genuine monetary transactions, by using spam techniques like op_return, fake pubkeys, fake scriptgash, fake Segwit data, the Taproot exploit, and spamware services like OpenRelay and Slipstream. Because you know you have to fool the system into thinking you are doing a monetary transaction when you clearly are not.

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Bitcoin is agnostic about UTXO content. It's not up to developers to decide what's a "legitimate monetary transaction" based on the white paper. The protocol is defined by consensus rules in the code, not by our interpretation of Satoshi's intent.

You ate correct. It's not up to the devs to decide what is spam and what should be allowed on chain. That would be too much of a centralizing force. Like when core uniterally decided to blow up the op_return filter.
The power to regulate what should be allowed on chain belongs to the 100,000 nodes. Because it would be too easy to compromise the 5 big pools or the core devs. But pretty much impossible to get the 100,000 nodes to agree to run an OLFAC compliant list, for example.

The job of the devs is to provide the nodes with the tolls they need to make their own decision. Bit it's core's position that core itself should maintain a centralised mempool and relay policy they can impose on all their nodes.

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Spam prevention in the codebase (like the witness data checks in validation.cpp) exists to prevent DoS vectors, not to judge transaction purpose. That's the actual definition of spam we should be using.

Of course, I would not expect a BRC token promoter like you to like the idea of BRC tokens being spam.

Quote
Filter whatever you want on your node. That's your right and policy rules exist for this.

Unfortunately policy is no longer enough to regulate spam. Since miners are now adopting spamware like SlipStream and OpenRelay as tools to promote spam and go around the p-2-p network policy. If the miners want to shove jpegs on chain, it belongs to the 100,000 nodes to put the miners nose in their piss puddle.

Quote
But advocating for protocol-level censorship of consensus-valid, fee-paying transactions because you don't like what they're used for is far more dangerous than any jpeg in witness data.

I don't like spam. Satoshi also didn't like spam as this is what he had to say when faced with the idea of Lady Gaga videos filling up the chain:

That's one of the reasons for transaction fees.  There are other things we can do if necessary.

And here is what Satoshi had to say when faced with the idea of a "use case" other than money:

Piling every proof-of-work quorum system in the world into one dataset doesn't scale.

Bitcoin and BitDNS can be used separately.  Users shouldn't have to download all of both to use one or the other.  BitDNS users may not want to download everything the next several unrelated networks decide to pile in either.

The networks need to have separate fates.  BitDNS users might be completely liberal about adding any large data features since relatively few domain registrars are needed, while Bitcoin users might get increasingly tyrannical about limiting the size of the chain so it's easy for lots of users and small devices.

You can call anti-spam measures as censorship of you want. But Satoshi didn't thing preventing Lady Gaga videos and BitDSN from using bitcoin as censorship. Neither do I. But I would not expect you to admit BRC tokens are spam.

Bitcoin is not a dickbutt jpeg repository.
Join the fight against turning bitcoin into spamware.
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ertil
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March 18, 2026, 02:16:58 PM
Merited by ABCbits (2)
 #2

Quote
Unfortunately policy is no longer enough to regulate spam. Since miners are now adopting spamware like SlipStream and OpenRelay as tools to promote spam and go around the p-2-p network policy.
Interesting, that you cannot understand, how it works. If you put more filters, or other kind of blockers, then guess what: more transactions will be sent outside of the P2P world, straight to the biggest miners. Which will centralize mining, because in the extreme cases, you will have each miner, working on a different 4 MB block.

I guess if more and more people will be pushing for more and more filters, then we will no longer have a concept of a "non-standard transaction" anymore. And then, lifting more standardness limits will be needed, just to encourage users to push transactions into the P2P network again, instead of doing it through centralized places.

It is a similar case, as it was with transaction fees: they were set to 1 sat/vB for a long time. And then, when lower transaction fees were in use, some nodes started to ignore any fee limits at all, just to improve the block propagation, and started accepting even free transactions, just because it was simpler, than guessing the correct limit. And then, it was changed to 0.1 sat/vB, to put at least some DoS protections back, and not leave the whole system wide open.

Also, in normal circumstances, many people wouldn't even think about making spammy transactions. But if you start putting some filters, or other blockers, then you create a challenge to be solved. And then, expect people to solve it. If you say "my filter solves that", then expect people to find counterexamples.

I also wonder, what would you do, when spammers would use 100% transaction fees? Because if someone cares only about pushing some data, then concepts like "change address" or "getting any coins left" simply doesn't exist. And in that cases, that kind of spam will always win with regular transactions, just because regular users don't fully turn all of their coins into fees. But data pushers may do, because they care only about that data being published.
PepeLapiu (OP)
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March 18, 2026, 09:29:36 PM
 #3


I'm getting really annoyed with your stoopit replies on all my threads. I might ignore you or block you completely.

Quote
Unfortunately policy is no longer enough to regulate spam. Since miners are now adopting spamware like SlipStream and OpenRelay as tools to promote spam and go around the p-2-p network policy.
Interesting, that you cannot understand, how it works. If you put more filters, or other kind of blockers, then guess what: more transactions will be sent outside of the P2P world, straight to the biggest miners. Which will centralize mining, because in the extreme cases, you will have each miner, working on a different 4 MB block.

Exactly my point. If miners are ignoring the policy of the 90,000 nodes, we have to take the fight at the consensus level to make miners behave.

If the filters don't work (as coretards keep parroting) than we have to take it up a notch in the fight against spam and spam miners.

Quote
I also wonder, what would you do, when spammers would use 100% transaction fees? Because if someone cares only about pushing some data, then concepts like "change address" or "getting any coins left" simply doesn't exist. And in that cases, that kind of spam will always win with regular transactions, just because regular users don't fully turn all of their coins into fees. But data pushers may do, because they care only about that data being published.

A stoopit arguement not even worth responding to.

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Join the fight against turning bitcoin into spamware.
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Ucy
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March 19, 2026, 07:33:05 PM
Merited by ABCbits (1), PepeLapiu (1)
 #4

It's not just about unwanted/disliked transaction or ddosing the network, it's about sticking to agenda participants *agreed* to be part of.
The idea is to stick to the main objective (cash transaction) of the Bitcoin Network rather than derailing with something unrelated which could cause serious problem or choas if unchecked.

It's like in a meeting with participants who agreed to discuss new furniture acquisition for their organisation, but one or few participants decided to shift the discussion to food. Once in awhile they scream the word food few times, frequently or loudly, and then some consider that as noise and irrelevant, and decided to censor it as it's also distracting and can cause them to derail from the meeting's topic or slow it down.
We however should allow emergency related or necessary comments like "I'm having sharp pains in my abdomen, need a doctor", or "please open the window to let in fresh air". This doesn't always happen very often, so it's tolerated


By joining the Bitcoin network, you agreed to participate in cash transaction/processing, anything unrelated or outside of this is considered spam especially if it causes the network to have issues, slowdown, bloat the Blockchain or makes others to abandon the cash transaction for the spam probably due to its more attractive monetary rewards.  

So you could consider spam as noise since it's unwanted, unrelated, distracting.
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March 19, 2026, 11:38:11 PM
Merited by ABCbits (1)
 #5

It's not just about unwanted/disliked transaction
Well.  You named it correctly.  It is UNWANTED and DISLIKED.  And no matter how you want to call it, if you push this away from the Network then it only sounds like Censorship.

If this is the current Spam of the Network and it gets pushed away, years from now we will run in to other kinds of 'Spam'.  If the majority of users start considering Privacy and do Coin Joins, will a significant increase of Coin Join Transactions be considered Spam too?  It is unwanted in the Blockchain if you think about it.  I like Coin Joins but I do not want them there.  I would in fact like it better if Coin Joins were impossible to see by the Blockchain users as it would drastically improve Privacy and significantly reduce the possibility of linking UTXOs together post Coin Join.

You could argue Transactions as little as 1000 Satoshis are also Spam.  They are distracting too, so are Coin Joins.  Coin Joins you could argue defeat the purpose of a Public Ledger and Transactions that small are almost nothing compared to the average Bitcoin spent in a Transaction.  If you add these and Coin Joins together and find a few more Transactions to consider 'Spam' too, the numbers actually add up to a decent number that could be eliminated from the Network.  Then you would have a much more clean Ledger to work with.

Right now we have this Spam.  If it goes away, the next largest Transactions right after it become the newest Spam.  So tell me.  Where does it really stop?

 
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PepeLapiu (OP)
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Today at 02:00:16 AM
 #6

It's not just about unwanted/disliked transaction
Well.  You named it correctly.  It is UNWANTED and DISLIKED.  And no matter how you want to call it, if you push this away from the Network then it only sounds like Censorship.

Bitcoin is censorship resistant money. Bitcoin IS NOT censorship resistant everything else.
You are free to buy your precious jpeg or your pancake with bitcoin. But neither your jpeg or your pancake belong on the bitcoin chain.

Quote
If this is the current Spam of the Network and it gets pushed away, years from now we will run in to other kinds of 'Spam'.  If the majority of users start considering Privacy and do Coin Joins, will a significant increase of Coin Join Transactions be considered Spam too?

This is the slippery slop arguement at it's worst. You are tellimg us we have to tolerate 40% of spam in the blocks, and it gets worst every year, or else it will devolve into monetary censorship?

Can we give the nodes some credit and pretend for a minute that we know the difference between a dickbuyt.jpeg and Iranian UTXOs?

If anything the slippery slope is the other say around as core is getting more and more tolerant to spam, until they actually blew up a spam filter.


Bitcoin is not a dickbutt jpeg repository.
Join the fight against turning bitcoin into spamware.
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