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Author Topic: Nic Carter on Bitcoin and the Quantum Threat, real or "Chicken Little"?  (Read 292 times)
Wind_FURY (OP)
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April 17, 2026, 08:31:51 AM
 #1

I'm posting the WHOLE article that's copied from X. READ IT! It's very important that everyone in the BitcoinTalk community to start getting actual awareness about the thread of the Quantum Event that could happen at a shorter amount of time than originally projected.

Quote

How to resolve the matter of the Satoshi coins without a freeze

The Overton window moved quickly. A few months ago I was public enemy #1 for pointing out that elliptic curves might not survive the decade and Bitcoin’s cryptography would have to adapt. Now Bitcoiners are mostly sold and arguing instead about how and when we should upgrade to deal with quantum computers. Bitcoin developers have finally begun to publish details of what they are planning with regards to quantum – ironically in an attempt to dispel my claim that they aren’t doing anything.

The thing about the PQ transition is, it’s impossible as a Bitcoiner to claim that this protocol is cutting edge technology if Bitcoin, a monetary system predicated entirely on cryptography, is a laggard when compared to Google (migration by 2029), Cloudflare (2029), Ethereum (2029) and the US government (2030-2035). Leaving aside the obvious insanity of wagering the entire fate of a multi-trillion-dollar monetary network on the vain hope that technology does not advance quickly, it’s just plain old embarrassing for Bitcoin to be the very last mover when it comes to updating its algorithms. Some Bitcoiners associate quantum computing with Vitalik and questionable public equities and reflexively dismiss the risk the technology poses. But there’s no reason to hold the network hostage to the ancient traumas of some old time Bitcoiners. Bitcoin selects for cranks and crackpots: some of them will happily deny the empirical reality of quantum mechanics to make a point, but it’s just a simple matter of tuning them out.

Ok, so we are going to add PQ signatures to Bitcoin sooner or later. I can tell you roughly what it will look like. Following a soft fork, there will be an intermediate period when you can sign either with your ordinary ECC Schnorr signature or a fancy new PQ signature (or possibly more than one!). Anytime ahead of Q-day, the network participants can migrate according to their perception of the risk. And eventually, again ideally before Q-day, ECC-based signatures (ECDSA and Schnorr) will be disallowed entirely. Hopefully this happens in an orderly manner with no nasty surprises, and all active participants get the chance to rotate their wallets before Q-day arrives.

Then the real trouble begins. As a cryptographically-relevant quantum computer (CRQC) looms (there will be early commercial use cases before ECC256 is broken, but the ramp could be very quick), a massive debate will erupt in the Bitcoin community as to the fate of the 1.7m p2pk outputs which did not migrate. These are Satoshi’s and other early miners’ coins. It will be extremely fraught because both sides have opinions that are strongly held and completely reasonable.

The battle lines have already been drawn

The split has already begun to emerge: Freeze camp (financial investors, institutions, fiduciaries): for them, freezing is the obvious choice. These coins are presumed lost, their owners have had almost 20 years to do something with them, they are being negligent by not transitioning them to PQ. They have had sufficient notice. For institutions, there will be no choice. Either delist and completely forego all revenue pertaining to Bitcoin asset management products, or ensure that Bitcoin adopts a freeze fork. A world where 1.7m+ BTC end up in the hands of a potentially hostile actor is unacceptable to these people, because they are fiduciaries of their clients’ money. Bitcoin would suffer devastating volatility as these coins are recovered quantumly, not only through unexpected inflation, but also because the motives of the new owner are unknown. For this reason, I expect most custodians, exchanges, and asset managers to precommit to only honoring a freeze fork, much to the chagrin of the other camp. The best exposition of this view comes courtesy of Jameson Lopp (@lopp).

Do not freeze camp (hardcore Bitcoin maxis, some developers, ideologues): for many in this group, there’s no real debate: Satoshi set 21 million as the monetary parameter, and no one alive has the authority to arbitrarily modify that to 19.x million. Bitcoin doesn’t engage in selective “irregular state changes” like Ethereum did after the DAO was hacked in 2016. Even after 850k BTC were lost to Mt Gox, nothing was done at the protocol layer to recover the funds. It’s just not in our DNA. Not to mention that Satoshi and other early miners fairly acquired their coins, and those coins are their due reward for being early stewards of the protocol. Besides, if we let the institutions effectively coerce the Bitcoin community into a massive monetary change, we have forsaken the original decentralized premise of the network. Who knows what they might push through next if we grant them this power – a change to PoW? KYC at the protocol layer? Plus, the attacker wouldn’t logically market-sell all the coins. Even if they are “malicious” in some way, economic rationality suggests that they will simply hold the coins rather than selling them off instantly. Better to absorb the temporary volatility than compromise the network’s ideals, this group holds. The “do not freeze” camp is positioning the freeze as an “attack on Bitcoin”, ignoring the fact that of course the freeze acolytes are equal and valid participants on the network too. If you want to get a sense of this position, see some of the replies to Jameson in this thread.

Now the two groups are not cleanly divided. Strong bitcoin advocates that might fall in the “no freeze” camp are investors too, but they have different time horizons and exposures than the institutions holding BTC for clients. Some developers are loosely in the freeze camp too. Pieter Wuille, probably the most influential current Bitcoin Core dev, has said: Of course they have to be confiscated. If and when (and that’s a big if) the existence of a cryptography-breaking QC becomes a credible threat, the Bitcoin ecosystem has no other option than softforking out the ability to spend from signature schemes (including ECDSA and BIP340) that are vulnerable to QCs. The alternative is that millions of BTC become vulnerable to theft; I cannot see how the currency can maintain any value at all in such a setting. And this affects everyone; even those which diligently moved their coins to PQC-protected schemes.
You can find some more aggregated developer perspectives here.

But by and large, you can sort the two camps into hardcore, ideologically-motivated Bitcoin maxis (no freeze), and institutions and large investors (freeze). Or, in other words, “economic nodes” (big asset managers, institutions, investors) versus “the social layer” (Bitcoiners more concerned about principles than expediency). During the Blocksize war, the “social layer” is largely understood to have won out over the desires of the economic nodes.
Fighting the last war

Within the contours of this debate, there’s two main ways people expect it to go (and a secret third way). The most likely, in my opinion, is that the economic nodes win: the most important institutions in Bitcoin get together and sign a letter saying they will only recognize a “freeze” fork of Bitcoin as the “true” Bitcoin, with any other forks being incidental. The other alternative for these institutions is to delist Bitcoin and deprecate their Bitcoin practice entirely, which some might actually do, lacking the stomach for the fight. I am guessing that most of the large ETF issuers, to avoid fragmentation (how do you have a Bitcoin ETF that suddenly splits into two?) will strenuously avoid a value-destroying split and will decide early to champion only one side of the fork. The other side will be sold off and go into the corporate entity, not to clients. Exchanges might be more ecumenical, choosing to support both forks and “letting the best man win”, giving their clients the choice. But generally, I think the institutions will be strongly on the side of just supporting the freeze fork, because they simply cannot tolerate the liability of having their client assets zeroed out overnight by a rogue actor.

The other alternative is that Bitcoin’s “immune system” activates and we get a similar outcome to the Blocksize war, which is that the corporates back down and accede to the desires of the community. I think this is very unlikely – though many Bitcoiners will expect it to go this way – because 2026 is simply not 2017. In 2015-2017, the only active institutions were crypto-native – firms like the CME had only just barely begun to support Bitcoin and were not yet a factor, let alone asset managers or ETF issuers. So the crypto native corporates like Coinbase ultimately understood that there was no need to die on the hill of 2x or even larger block sizes, which allowed the “purists” to win out through the UASF and the activation of SegWit. 2x also failed because there was insufficient developer talent to push through the blocksize increase fork. That is not the case with the freeze fork. You will find plenty of developers willing to work on the freeze side.

Today, as I said, is different, because such a large fraction of BTC is held in corporate entities like Microstrategy or custodians, exchanges, and asset managers. The economic side simply has more sway today, and it’s much more concentrated into a dozen or so important firms, all of whom get a vote. Moreover, the case for freezing is much more economically obvious than the case to expand the blocksize, which was an economically marginal issue and more of an engineering question. And you have some influential developers and community members with tons of social cachet like Jameson Lopp and Pieter Wuille that have already come out in favor of a freeze, so the “ideological hardliner” side will be more divided.

So my base case is that the investors and institutions will win out, and they will do so cleanly by precommitting only to a freeze fork. Many Bitcoiners will complain but they will ultimately recognize the economic validity of the argument. They want to make money, too. Most people are not willing to let their nest egg and savings go to zero for the sake of ideological purity.

A secret third thing

But there is another way. Bitcoin doesn’t necessarily face a stark choice between economic doom and abandoning its founding principles. A possible “compromise” could be reached whereby the coins are rescued from their quantum plight while keeping Bitcoin’s monetary policy and ideological purity (mostly) intact. I’m speaking of a legal recovery or “salvage” of these vulnerable coins.

There’s one condition necessary to ensure this outcome: one or more US-based firms have to win the quantum race (which to me, looks eminently likely).

It would go like this. A US firm, whether it’s Google, or IBM, or one of the other quantum leaders (most of whom are US-based companies) acquires a CRQC first, and contracts with the US government to lawfully recover the 1.7m p2pk coins. They do not obtain ownership of these coins, but are rather appointed by a court as a neutral receiver or court-authorized custodian, tasked with securing and returning the assets to their rightful owners where possible and otherwise holding them in trust pending judicial disposition. This is analogous to the concept in maritime law of “salvor-in-possession,” in which a salvage firm recovers property from a vessel in peril and obtains a court-determined salvage award but not ownership of the recovered assets. This is, for instance, how the Titanic wreck is administered.

Some might say Satoshi’s Bitcoin would be treated more analogously to the “law of finds”, or “finders keepers” more colloquially. If property is considered to be abandoned, the finder who takes possession gets full ownership. I think this is much more unlikely, since US courts tend to require that the prior owner affirmatively relinquishes control, which is most likely never going to happen with Satoshi.

Salvor in possession, while not being the actual judicial doctrine employed (since Satoshi’s bitcoins are not literally a shipwreck on the high seas), is the best analogy and something that a court could reasonably look to for inspiration. In that case, Google, or whoever else it is that first builds a CRQC, would gain temporary exclusive authority to recover the 1.7m BTC which would be considered “imperiled” (since some other adversary might be close on their heels with a CRQC). Other firms would either be brought into a consortium or legally barred from attempting recovery. These coins would be swept into court-controlled addresses and sent into a receivership estate or trust structure. From there, claimants (Satoshi or other) could prove ownership, by providing conventional evidence that they did indeed mine the coins in 2009/10. This would be hard, but not impossible, if enough electronic records were kept. The salvor would get a salvage award commensurate with the difficulty and expense incurred. It could be substantial. In the case of the SS Central America, the salvor was awarded 90 percent of the roughly $150m in gold recovered. Though this is not the norm, and in cases where ownership was belatedly asserted, as with the monster $500m Nuestra Señora frigate recovery, the award can be 0% (Spain asserted an unbroken sovereign ownership claim – 200 years later).

The fate of the coins if unclaimed (and I believe few if any would be subsequently claimed by Satoshi or others) is a little muddier. In theory, the property would be escheated to the state, liquidated and the proceeds used, but with a perpetual liability attached – if Satoshi returns and demands their money. The size of the liability and the unclear domiciling of the coins (what state were they mined in? none? all?) suggests that this would have to be federalized in a kind of ad hoc process; no state would want such a huge liability. So what I think is most likely is the coins would ultimately come to rest inside of Treasury in the Bitcoin Reserve – claimable by Satoshi but effectively property of the US government.

Now this isn’t the most cypherpunk outcome, but most Bitcoiners already made their peace with the US government getting involved in Bitcoin and many vociferously supported the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve, so it’s not like Bitcoiners are allergic to the government getting involved in their protocol when it suits them. In this case, the USG would be doing us all a favor by proactively tackling the biggest threat to Bitcoin and ensuring the coins would not be dumped on the market – and doing it in a manner that required no arbitrary changes to the protocol layer.
The idea seems fanciful but I think it could genuinely take place. I actually wrote an entire speculative fiction short story premised on the idea last year entitled Trillion Dollar Salvage.

Now, what do I want to happen?

My preference, in order, is:
The coins are lawfully salvaged, held in Trust for Satoshi to claim, and ultimately escheated into the SBR
The Freeze
[a big gap]
3.    No Freeze and Bitcoin dies valiantly
1 is preferable to 2, in my opinion, because if Bitcoin really does freeze the coins, then something about Bitcoin will truly have died. It would survive, but it will be forever changed – arguably not the same network Satoshi set up all those years ago.

https://x.com/nic_carter/status/2044834475796738280


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April 17, 2026, 02:37:13 PM
Merited by gmaxwell (5), d5000 (3), Halab (2)
 #2

I think Nic is asking the right scary question and then wandering into the wrong cure. Quantum risk is not pure bedtime folklore, but the moment people start sounding comfortable with freezing or reallocating old coins "for the good of the network," my hand goes straight to my wallet. That precedent is radioactive. Once Bitcoin crosses the line from "if you have the keys, you have the coins" into "unless the crowd, institutions, devs, miners, or some panic committee decides otherwise," you have quietly replaced a rule with a permission slip.

The part a lot of people keep blurring is that there's a huge difference between giving users new tools to migrate funds and forcibly invalidating certain UTXOs because they look vulnerable or politically convenient. One is an upgrade path. The other is expropriation wearing a lab coat. And no, it doesn't become noble just because Satoshi's stash is involved. Bitcoin doesn't get stronger by proving that sufficiently old or weird coins can be put on a chopping block when the narrative feels urgent enough.

So, to me this is neither "Chicken Little" nor "let's pre-freeze half the museum." The sane posture is to take PQ seriously, keep working on migration options, reduce address reuse like civilized adults, and avoid turning a technical threat into an excuse for social-layer vandalism. If Bitcoin ever decides some coins are too dangerous to be owned unless approved by the village council, the quantum computer will be the second most interesting thing that happened.

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April 17, 2026, 08:33:06 PM
 #3

Nic Carter is also for some reason unable to refrain from lying about the status of development on QC robust cryptography for Bitcoin-- he's constantly screaming that no developers care and nothing is being done, but that is just painfully obviously untrue.  Now as to why he'd engage in that kind of dishonest behavior, -- that's up to you, but many people have noted that he's a significant investor in some company selling PQ 'fixes'.  Could just be plain stupidity though, or reliance on LLMs.  The guy can't even figure out who the developers *are* or how to email them, but he thinks he's qualified to publish on whats being worked on.

The elegant answer to the freeze proponents is that they're free to make a fork that reflects their beliefs.  If they are right, it'll become dominant in the market.  If they're wrong-- it'll end up worthless.  A lot of long time Bitcoin investors I talk to agree with your position-- that it's would be a devastating blow to Bitcoin's value proposition and would only be interesting if the alternative was bitcoin's demise.  That fits well with that "if you think its needed, you can make a fork for it": if the non-confiscatory bitcoin dies  then that opens the field for the survivor.  And most importantly everyone got to chose what currency they adopted, without confiscation being forced onto them.

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April 17, 2026, 09:45:19 PM
Merited by gmaxwell (2), Ambatman (1)
 #4

Nic Carter is also for some reason unable to refrain from lying about the status of development on QC robust cryptography for Bitcoin-- he's constantly screaming that no developers care and nothing is being done, but that is just painfully obviously untrue.  Now as to why he'd engage in that kind of dishonest behavior, -- that's up to you, but many people have noted that he's a significant investor in some company selling PQ 'fixes'.  Could just be plain stupidity though, or reliance on LLMs.  The guy can't even figure out who the developers *are* or how to email them, but he thinks he's qualified to publish on whats being worked on.
We've already explained who this fraud is in another thread about quantum computers, and yet here is another one.

The elegant answer to the freeze proponents is that they're free to make a fork that reflects their beliefs.  If they are right, it'll become dominant in the market.  If they're wrong-- it'll end up worthless.  A lot of long time Bitcoin investors I talk to agree with your position-- that it's would be a devastating blow to Bitcoin's value proposition and would only be interesting if the alternative was bitcoin's demise.  That fits well with that "if you think its needed, you can make a fork for it": if the non-confiscatory bitcoin dies  then that opens the field for the survivor.  And most importantly everyone got to chose what currency they adopted, without confiscation being forced onto them.
Exactly, at least scammers like Roger Ver tried to make their own fork and proved that they were completely bamboozled idiots. The market eventually proved them wrong even if they didn't want to believe or listen to the engineers at the time. Stupid people tend to insist that they are right at all cost.

I think Nic is asking the right scary question and then wandering into the wrong cure. Quantum risk is not pure bedtime folklore, but the moment people start sounding comfortable with freezing or reallocating old coins "for the good of the network," my hand goes straight to my wallet. That precedent is radioactive. Once Bitcoin crosses the line from "if you have the keys, you have the coins" into "unless the crowd, institutions, devs, miners, or some panic committee decides otherwise," you have quietly replaced a rule with a permission slip.
The more I have been reading and pondering about this topic, the worse my conclusion is. If we freeze coins with no recovery (or even at all) which would be the case with coins such as satoshi's this would create a precedent and turn Bitcoin into something from which there is no going back to. This is the worst solution of all, much worse than letting more than a million coins flood back into the circulating supply. Figuring this out is very easy, understanding the full implications perhaps may be a bit more difficult but I do not see how these idiots can't figure that out.

Quote
The coins are lawfully salvaged, held in Trust for Satoshi to claim, and ultimately escheated into the SBR
This is perhaps some optimal case scenario that I have no read before, but I do not see how likely this is unless someone extremely well connected gets this going themselves. I don't think it is going to just happen on its own out of nowhere.

Quote
3.    No Freeze and Bitcoin dies valiantly
This is false and misinformation. Bitcoin will not die from some coins entering back into circulation. Old coins are entering back into circulation all the time, a temporary one-time large-scale will not cause any issues. Coins get hacked through all sorts of methods all the time, including private key derivation (because the randomness was weak or the method was insecure) -- stop pretending that this is something else.



"My keys, my coins" -- you can fuck off to your centralized confiscation shitcoin Nic.

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April 18, 2026, 03:17:22 AM
Merited by d5000 (4), Satofan44 (1)
 #5

There may be an underlying thread that some people delusional believe that some huge portion of coins are lost-- and so those coins going into circulation again would violate their own expectations of what bitcoin is.  But there is no basis for people to believe that-- people who told it to them were confused or lying.  With a few exceptions one should assume that all the coins that exist can and someday will be spent.  Those who accept this truth probably have less reason to go around proposing seizing people's assets.

A useful thing researchers could look into: is there a way in zero knoweldge to bind an existing coin to a new 'secure' output, without exposing which coins got bound?

Like you construct a PQ secure ZKP that says "Value X is a hash of the private key for some output that exists and is worth X bitcoin, it now should belong to this new address"   this way parties with long dormant coins could secure them with new keys without revealing that they still exist.
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April 19, 2026, 02:30:23 PM
Last edit: April 19, 2026, 04:23:05 PM by Satofan44
Merited by gmaxwell (2)
 #6

There may be an underlying thread that some people delusional believe that some huge portion of coins are lost-- and so those coins going into circulation again would violate their own expectations of what bitcoin is.  But there is no basis for people to believe that-- people who told it to them were confused or lying.  With a few exceptions one should assume that all the coins that exist can and someday will be spent.  Those who accept this truth probably have less reason to go around proposing seizing people's assets.
Exactly, in most cases they are done through various assumptions relating to events (which are most often not objectively or mathematically verifiable but anecdotes of various sources) or coin age. However, we frequently see cases where extremely old addresses get woken up which violate the latter assumption all the time which means that it can not be used in a superficial way like that. So the choice is this, either sacrifice:
  • 1. The assumption that 3-4 M coins are lost (or whatever the estimate), or
  • 2. The core principle that Bitcoin is a non-freezable, censorship-resistant asset where your keys mean your coins.

Gee, it is so hard to figure out which one is fucking more important. A relatively baseless assumption based on speculation by individuals or a core principle of Bitcoin. Roll Eyes Luckily we do not have any kind of explicit governance system, not even a organization pretending to be decentralized like DAOs as otherwise these people would lead us to ruin ourselves like shitcoins regularly do.

A useful thing researchers could look into: is there a way in zero knoweldge to bind an existing coin to a new 'secure' output, without exposing which coins got bound?

Like you construct a PQ secure ZKP that says "Value X is a hash of the private key for some output that exists and is worth X bitcoin, it now should belong to this new address"   this way parties with long dormant coins could secure them with new keys without revealing that they still exist.
That is an interesting line of research.

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April 19, 2026, 03:28:26 PM
 #7

A useful thing researchers could look into: is there a way in zero knoweldge to bind an existing coin to a new 'secure' output, without exposing which coins got bound?
That's indeed very interesting, even if it of course doesn't solve the issue of real "lost" coins.

I believe it should be possible, even I as a layman can imagine a structure like this:

- You create a script which proves that you own P2PK key X and post-quantum key Y. For example, you sign a message both with key X and Y, or you sign the address corresponding to Y with X (then you don't prove Y belongs to you)
- You publish a hash of this script in an OP_RETURN transaction as early as possible (so you're ahead of Q-day).
- A future recovery mechanism requires P2PK outputs to be spent only of the following conditions are fulfilled: 1) the transaction moving the funds contains the original script proving the ownership of both keys and a quantum-resistant signature, and 2) the script hash was published in a transaction before a deadline before the expected Q-day (so it can't be done by someone with a QC).

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April 19, 2026, 04:36:45 PM
 #8

SO is freezing to be done on :

2009-2012 coins

Or on all legacy addresses

I can make a legacy address today put in 0.001 coins

My issue then is my new coins are frozen so no one steals them?

Why ?

 I choose to do it. Place my coins in a supposed weak address.

Is it not my choice to take that risk?

BTW all my coins are in bc1q******** addresses also my choice.

Just like I choose to buy some coins from kraken
And mine some coins on viabtc
Is
In both cases the mined coins and purchased coins are entrusted to kraken and viabtc until I move them to one of my

bc1q******* addresses

Why don't we leave the older 2009-2012 coins alone in legacy addresses until they start to be stolen.

I for one am interested in how long will it take for them to be stolen.

Why don't we make a way to secure bc1q**** from quantum as our priority.

Giving those with the older addresses a choice to transfer to safety if they want.

And let's set a forced transfer date or freeze date in 2056.

I would be 99 but it would motivate me to live to see if all the older 'unsafe' addresses are stolen before 2056. Or if after a few thefts they start to be transferred over to a safe version of 'bc1q' addresses

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April 20, 2026, 01:17:59 PM
Merited by ertil (1)
 #9

I believe that freezing could be done on coins that will not be moved to "Quantum Safe addresses" after a fixed amount of time. It would be stupid not to move your coins because you know it would be stolen, no? No person would put money somewhere merely to be stolen.

But in my personal opinion, no freeze - let the market decide. But I'll admit that I might consider selling some of my coins if it's decided that there will be no freeze.

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April 20, 2026, 09:57:04 PM
 #10

My issue then is my new coins are frozen so no one steals them?

Why ?

 I choose to do it. Place my coins in a supposed weak address.

Is it not my choice to take that risk?
Bitcoin was always about giving you that choice, being your own bank means that you can do whatever the fuck you want as long as it is valid according to the consensus rules. Do you want to send your money in a black hole address? It is your choice. Do you want to send it to terrorists? We can't stop you. Do you want to put it in an address that is derived by shitting randomness? Yes you can. The freeze proposal goes against everything that Bitcoin stands for.

Why don't we leave the older 2009-2012 coins alone in legacy addresses until they start to be stolen.

I for one am interested in how long will it take for them to be stolen.
Nobody knows that. The idea is that we can't be certain if it will take days or weeks to crack 1 address once it starts to actually work, or it could be minutes. If it is minutes or less then we won't be able to do much in time. It is not like we could coordinate a large scale, somewhat controversial (or worse, completely controversial like this proposal) solution and deploy it quite quickly in Bitcoin. Preferably we would want to avoid that, even if in the times of the utmost emergencies it could probably work -- but let's not try to test this.

Why don't we make a way to secure bc1q**** from quantum as our priority.
Because there isn't a very good way to make existing addresses secure. What will happen is that there will be a new signature algorithm which will produce a new type of addresses that are quantum-safe(r), and you will have the choice to transfer your funds there if you want to. This part will definitely happen. Any kind of freezing, confiscation, or other retarded proposals no.

I believe that freezing could be done on coins that will not be moved to "Quantum Safe addresses" after a fixed amount of time. It would be stupid not to move your coins because you know it would be stolen, no?
Then you are absolutely crazy and have never understood what Bitcoin was about. This would sacrifice a core principle of Bitcoin to avoid short-term price fluctuations. There is no existential threat here, nothing that could break Bitcoin at all. In the worst case it would lead to some coins being dumped on the market, and then it is over -- the protocol continues like nothing has happened at all.

No person would put money somewhere merely to be stolen.
Yet it happens all the time, every single day.  Roll Eyes Everything from brainwallets over entering your seed phrase online to storing ridiculous amounts of coin on a shitty and insecure phone. If someone wants to place Bitcoin into an insecure address or in an insecure way, it is their choice -- Bitcoin is about providing this choice.

But in my personal opinion, no freeze - let the market decide. But I'll admit that I might consider selling some of my coins if it's decided that there will be no freeze.
Go ahead and sell, it worked out great for Roger Ver.  Smiley

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April 21, 2026, 01:18:20 AM
 #11

I think it will be real when Quantum Day (QD) arrives. When? I don’t exactly understand, there’s news about 2035 but it seems too soon. But I don’t know how it could usually be faster or slower. Remember how the US is currently also trying to implement security through banning crypto that uses EDSCA technology. This is being done by the US FEDERAL agency officially banning ECDSA cryptography starting in 2030 with a final deadline in 2035. Maybe this is also one of the steps to protect against quantum technology.

In my local media, I also talk about quantum, but they are still optimistic that developers will soon take anticipatory measures. I have also read BIP 360 and most recently yesterday BIP 361. The 360 proposal is quite good, but the weakness is old inactive wallets; BIP 361 tries to improve it, but logically, I am a little surprised by this proposal. Of course, I understand the concern if QD arrives and is genuinely capable of stealing Bitcoin from old wallets.

Is there a way to anticipate the arrival of Quantum day and for Crypto to continue running safely without worry about crime? I am not a developer and I can't, I can only think about how all these coins can migrate to new technology automatically in a way that is safe from Quantum attacks.

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April 21, 2026, 05:53:22 AM
 #12



I believe that freezing could be done on coins that will not be moved to "Quantum Safe addresses" after a fixed amount of time. It would be stupid not to move your coins because you know it would be stolen, no?


Then you are absolutely crazy and have never understood what Bitcoin was about. This would sacrifice a core principle of Bitcoin to avoid short-term price fluctuations. There is no existential threat here, nothing that could break Bitcoin at all. In the worst case it would lead to some coins being dumped on the market, and then it is over -- the protocol continues like nothing has happened at all.


 Roll Eyes

Nitpicking again, Satofan69? Get the context. I was merely projecting what some developers might propose to do, not necessarily what I would do.

Quote


No person would put money somewhere merely to be stolen.


Yet it happens all the time, every single day.  Roll Eyes Everything from brainwallets over entering your seed phrase online to storing ridiculous amounts of coin on a shitty and insecure phone. If someone wants to place Bitcoin into an insecure address or in an insecure way, it is their choice -- Bitcoin is about providing this choice.


 Roll Eyes

That doesn't mean they wanted their assets to be stolen. No person would put their coins in a vulnerable address knowing it would be stolen from them, no?

Quote


But in my personal opinion, no freeze - let the market decide. But I'll admit that I might consider selling some of my coins if it's decided that there will be no freeze.


Go ahead and sell, it worked out great for Roger Ver.  Smiley


I will truly consider it, especially IF the Quantum Debate becomes more tumultuous and divisive than the Segwit Debate. Because this isn't merely a matter of market or price performance. This is potentially a serious technical matter that could make many HODLers lose confidence in the network.

It's easy for you to say "go ahead and sell", but for some of us, we have invested a large portion of our savings in this.

But you, Satofan69, are a troll. Welcome to my ignore list.

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April 21, 2026, 06:54:39 AM
 #13

Quote
No person would put their coins in a vulnerable address knowing it would be stolen from them, no?
People who create puzzles do. For example: https://mempool.space/tx/08389f34c98c606322740c0be6a7125d9860bb8d5cb182c02f98461e5fa6cd15

At the time of writing, there is literally 7.1 BTC, sitting on 1PWo3JeB9jrGwfHDNpdGK54CRas7fsVzXU, which is probably a weak, 71-bit private key, where it is not yet taken, only because it is hashed. But once the public key will be revealed, then double-spending transactions could be made in seconds.

So, weak keys are tested with whole BTCs, which is why puzzle solvers claim them through Slipstream, or similar ways.

Also note, that the reward in 1PWo3JeB9jrGwfHDNpdGK54CRas7fsVzXU was bumped from 0.071 BTC to 0.71 BTC, and later to 7.1 BTC (and the same happened to many other addresses in this puzzle as well). And someone decided to send a lot of coins to addresses, where everyone knew, that the private keys are weak.
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April 21, 2026, 12:43:03 PM
 #14


Quote

No person would put their coins in a vulnerable address knowing it would be stolen from them, no?


People who create puzzles do.


That's taking the question out of context, ser. I'm talking about people who accumulate Bitcoin, investors, HODLers, traders, PLEBS like us.

Because, who would deliberately store their Bitcoin in a vulnerable address, while they know that the address is indeed vulnerable?

Please don't derail the topic.

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April 23, 2026, 12:55:36 AM
 #15

Nitpicking again, Satofan69? Get the context. I was merely projecting what some developers might propose to do, not necessarily what I would do.
It is not going to happen, you will be stopped like scammer Ver was. If developers propose radical ideas, they will lose their ability to influence Bitcoin Core in any significant way similarly to how the CSAM-archiving freak Luke-jr lost all his influence.

That doesn't mean they wanted their assets to be stolen. No person would put their coins in a vulnerable address knowing it would be stolen from them, no?
Whether I want my assets to be stolen or not is not your place to determine. You do not know anything about the choices of others and you are making assumptions in order to justify stealing their property. If I want to put my coins in something insecure, knowingly or unknowingly, it is my choice. This is what Bitcoin is about. Everything else is not Bitcoin, but since most of the "old" users here are deeply brainwashed by the traditional centralized systems they keep resorting to ideas that are classic for those systems. Freeze, blacklist, why not full KYC and whitelist only in the end?  Roll Eyes

I will truly consider it, especially IF the Quantum Debate becomes more tumultuous and divisive than the Segwit Debate. Because this isn't merely a matter of market or price performance. This is potentially a serious technical matter that could make many HODLers lose confidence in the network.
This is not a technical matter and it has no way of breaking the network, you are spreading false information about this case again. I will tag you appropriately once more and warn other users from interacting with misinformation.

Because, who would deliberately store their Bitcoin in a vulnerable address, while they know that the address is indeed vulnerable?
That is not for you to decide. If you want to act as a central committee person that decides something for others, you can join the CSAM-review team that is proposed by luke-jr.

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April 23, 2026, 05:43:32 AM
 #16

Shower thought.

IF the FIRST Quantum Computer would be built tomorrow, I believe that because "Game Theory", the people having it might not waste letting everyone know that they have it by cracking Bitcoin.

Why?

Probably because,

1. How would they sell those coins? If a Quantum Computer cracked Satoshi's wallet, I believe exchanges would refuse to have those outputs sent to them.

2. Plus why would they show that they do indeed have a Quantum Computer that could break Bitcoin/public key cryptography? If it's China, they probably would wait and use it on something more important, like break United States/Taiwanese Military networks if they decide that it's time to invade Taiwan.

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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April 23, 2026, 12:25:04 PM
 #17

Shower thought.

IF the FIRST Quantum Computer would be built tomorrow, I believe that because "Game Theory", the people having it might not waste letting everyone know that they have it by cracking Bitcoin.

Why?

Probably because,

1. How would they sell those coins? If a Quantum Computer cracked Satoshi's wallet, I believe exchanges would refuse to have those outputs sent to them.

2. Plus why would they show that they do indeed have a Quantum Computer that could break Bitcoin/public key cryptography? If it's China, they probably would wait and use it on something more important, like break United States/Taiwanese Military networks if they decide that it's time to invade Taiwan.

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Now you have finally written something reasonable instead of listening to scammers like Nic Carter. When it comes to incentives there are generally two camps:

1. Those that see the quantity of Bitcoin at stake as a canary/incentive for someone to build a quantum computer. While some people tend to misuse the arguments that banks would be targeted and everything else will be insecure, it is besides the point. There does not exist a single system in the world that has a big treasure lying around like this, and in traditional centralized systems they could just shut everything down and undo the theft.
2. Those that see that hacking Bitcoin would expose your quantum supremacy right away, and is that going to be worth it?

Now there are other issues that are relevant here, and jeets learn already how markets work:
1. The millions of coins that are at stake, whether they be hacked extremely quickly (e.g. 1 day) or a bit longer over short periods of time can not be sold on a normal market. This is not how it works.
2. Legal entities are not able to sell these coins as they are stolen property, even if the original owner of this property does not come forward.

This only leaves:
1. Rogue states (e.g. China), but that comes back to the would they waste their secret of achieving quantum supremacy on this and this is assuming they are even able to pull this off.
2. Rogue entities, but that is extremely unlikely given the complexity and money involved in reaching the first quantum computer.



The setup which has us choosing between bad options (coins stolen vs coins frozen) however is still uniquely positioned to give this outcome: a US legal entity (such as Google) achieves quantum supremacy and.... nothing happens! At least for a little while. This is the most likely scenario (assuming they DO achieve it). We still get plenty of time before some rogue entity or state manages to build their own, we are talking about many years or decades. People fail to understand that some technologies can not be copied in a few years even through trade secret theft.

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April 23, 2026, 03:23:54 PM
 #18

Quantum threat is not fake, it's real and it will happen. But we need to also realize that quantum is not one sided thing. Even with quantum it is not going to be instant, like a second and it's all gone, it just makes it faster and doable. And quantum will not be at the hands of people who will first try to crack bitcoin as first thought, if anything they would try to get nuclear codes as first thought, because it's a system that is being worked on with billions, and people who are rich that way, and governments, will want that first.

Meanwhile, we can make the security even more stronger but if once invented then quantum computing also will evolve. Personally I still believe quantum computing is kind of alien technology hence we need long way to see it working around us.


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April 27, 2026, 01:15:09 AM
 #19

@tygeade. I am skeptical on how the mainstream news media and the cryptonews media are making this quantum threat appear. I reckon this might be similar to the Y2K bug where they said all of the computers in the world will turn off. However, did the computers turn off?

In any case, this might be the next fud that will cause a big dump and we can certainly speculate that there are people paying for these articles to be published to cause more fearfulness on the market heheehehehee.



Bitcoin’s timeline to deal with quantum computers just got a little bit shorter.

A researcher called Giancarlo Lelli performed the largest known quantum attack on elliptic curve cryptography, the standard that secures Bitcoin, Ethereum, and a vast majority of the $2.6 trillion crypto market. Lelli’s breakthrough is a 512-fold jump from the previous record.

Even though the result doesn’t break Bitcoin, it suggests something pretty unsettling. Progress towards breaking the $1.5 trillion network is accelerating on hardware that anyone can rent.

“The winning submission came from an independent researcher working on cloud-accessible hardware,” said Andy Pruden, CEO of Project Eleven, a startup dedicated to addressing Bitcoin’s quantum computing threat.

“The resource requirements for this type of attack keep dropping, and the barrier to running it in practice is dropping with them.”

What was considered a far-fetched threat not too long ago has now taken centre stage. In January, Wall Street behemoths like BlackRock and $5 trillion UBS CEO Sergio Ermotti denounced the quantum threat, while developers turned a blind eye. Not anymore. After Google accelerated its timeline for quantum to 2029, Bitcoin maintainers have begun to think about ways to stave off the threat.


Read in full https://www.dlnews.com/articles/markets/quantum-computing-attack-jumps-512x-bitcoin/

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April 27, 2026, 06:05:01 PM
Last edit: April 27, 2026, 08:23:41 PM by d5000
 #20

Bitcoin’s timeline to deal with quantum computers just got a little bit shorter.
Oh my god what a trash article. But anyway, I don't want to dismiss Lelli's achievement.

It is hidden in the article that the key Lelli cracked was a 15-bit key. This means there were around 32000 possible key combinations. Even bruteforcing and without using the fancy algorithms our Kangaroo fanboys of the Development & Technical subforum use, this is something a conventional computer does in a fraction of a millisecond.

So it would be very interesting which "public accessible cloud" hardware exactly Lelli used, which is not specified in the articles I have found about the subject.

It is also not true what the article claims that "only after Google's update to 2029" the Bitcoin developers became aware of the problem. SHRIMPS was published in March, and SHRINCS in December 2025.

PS: more about the supposed "attack": https://u.today/first-quantum-hack-in-crypto-is-here-but-bitcoin-pioneer-adam-back-labels-it-as-fake

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