It keeps looking like centralisation is still in control

[tbct_mt2]

If you pay directly with Bitcoin from your non-custodial wallet, are you using a centralized processor?  You are pushing the idea that a Bitcoin transaction is only processed through a centralized payment system.  And that is where you are mistaken. 

Like in this forum, signature participants are from different countries. The signature campaign manager sent payment to people who are in different countries, that is, cross border payment. Does the process go through a centralized platform?

Maybe he implied and discussed about business that has to use payment processors which mostly centralized and have to obey to legal regulations in their nations.

For individual users, it is easily to use Bitcoin non custodial wallets for both storage (receiving) and transaction broadcast (sending), and certainly it's not big issues with receiving or sending by having Bitcoin private keys. You fully control your coins, and no one, no entity, no government can freeze bitcoins in your non custodial wallets.

With business companies, it's a different and they are unable to avoid KYC or don't use centralized payment processors.

[Smartprofit]

Yes, I believe the ruling elites are seeking to destroy the decentralization of all modern technologies (including Bitcoin). In my view, all modern technologies are inherently decentralized and create an alternative to the existing economic system, as well as new opportunities for people. 💁

For example, the internet and AI are an alternative to expensive university education. Social media is an alternative to centralized media. 3D printers are an alternative to traditional factories and businesses. Bitcoin is an alternative to banks. Cryptocurrencies are an alternative to the modern banking system, and so on. 🙋

In my opinion, the main problem is that governments, banks, and large corporations are preventing people from fully realizing the potential of modern technology. The ruling elites are afraid of the idea of ​​decentralization. I remember recently watching a podcast on YouTube. The article talked about how in 2003, a group of internet experts were tasked with forecasting its development through 2025.

 The forecast included four scenarios: optimistic, neutral, moderately pessimistic, and extremely pessimistic. And guess which of these four scenarios represented the development of the internet in 2025? The internet's development corresponded to the worst-case scenario. The takeover of the internet by large corporations, internet censorship, etc. I think we forget that we have to fight for freedom and independence every day. And people are completely unprepared for this.

That's why institutional players are privatizing all modern technologies that are supposed to benefit people (including Bitcoin).

[treesintheforestooh]

Yeah, I think there's a misunderstanding here on what "decentralization" means.

With that said, there is some centralizing trends happening in Bitcoin right now with major organizations/companies shutting down and "pivoting to AI."

If the value of Bitcoin doesn't continue to double every halving - which is impossible and it won't (would make every BTC greater than the entire world GDP by 2140) - we're going to very likely see greater centralization of the network. That is unless we see another way in which miners, big and small, can make money/be rewarded.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

I have a question about Bitcoin.

Since people can use Bitcoin as a way to settle payments but centralisation is the one in control of it all, does this mean that decentralisation have failed in payment solution part?

Because even US is now making it seem like crypto acceptance is for only those in the US, if you are out of the US you are on your own, it is like your own country needs to accept Bitcoin as means of settlement for you to take advantage of that.

What are people calling it? Cross bordering payment? If feels more like centralised payment solution using bitcoin.

The centralised payment aspect with bitcoin is sure dependent on the government of different countries across the different countries of the world, that is, in the hands of every government of each respective country to declare bitcoin as a legal tender which will automatically allow bitcoin to be used as a medium of payment in and within that country by the citizens of the same country.

But when it comes to the decentralised aspect of using bitcoin for payment for goods and services in our respective countries and between ourselve, whether it be a cross border payment or within a country, success of this method of payment lies solely in our hands, it is we the bitcoin community that will make this happen, the government doesn't support decentralization because they are after power, so waiting for them to support any decentralised payment system is a complete waste of time.

[Ambatman]

, it is like your own country needs to accept Bitcoin as means of settlement for you to take advantage of that.

I think I would focus on this part

The laws of your country affects you not Bitcoin and if it gets branded as a crime to use Bitcoin
There isn't much you can do if it gets known.


How People use Bitcoin doesn't change the fact what it is
As long as they don't start attacking it on a consensus level
Then any other action was a choice on your part.

[yhiaali3]

In my opinion, it seems that you are confusing two different things. The concept of decentralization of Bitcoin is a fundamental feature that cannot be debated because Bitcoin will remain decentralized no matter how much governments try to impose restrictions or try to circumvent them through third-party services. Bitcoin was and still is decentralized.

Centralized services that are controlled by governments or their regulations are something else entirely, different from Bitcoin. It is true that they use Bitcoin and can impose their restrictions, but they are not fundamentally part of the Bitcoin system, and you can still use Bitcoin in a decentralized way through your non-custodial wallet at any time.

[dzungmobile]

Centralized services that are controlled by governments or their regulations are something else entirely, different from Bitcoin. It is true that they use Bitcoin and can impose their restrictions, but they are not fundamentally part of the Bitcoin system, and you can still use Bitcoin in a decentralized way through your non-custodial wallet at any time.

Governments can no change Bitcoin protocol and Bitcoin network so the decentralization will be maintained. They only can regulate centralized services more and stricter with time and it's their attempts to somewhat partially reduce access of people to Bitcoin blockchain. However this approach is limited to people who don't use non custodial wallets and don't value their privacy and anonymity as at least so far there are still no KYC platforms to use.

[serjent05]

Since people can use Bitcoin as a way to settle payments but centralisation is the one in control of it all, does this mean that decentralisation have failed in payment solution part?

The Bitcoin network is still decentralized, it is that the centralized services are integrate Bitcoin into their service making it looks like Bitcoin is getting centralized but if we look deeply into the structure, Bitcoin decentralization is still strong and using centralized services does not mean Bitcoin is shifting to centralized system because these centralized services are outside the system of Bitcoin.
 

What are people calling it? Cross bordering payment? If feels more like centralised payment solution using bitcoin.

You are talking about a centralized company, so yes, they are a centralized payment solution integrating Bitcoin into their services, but people can still send cross-border transactions through a decentralized network of Bitcoin.

[Alphakilo]

, it is like your own country needs to accept Bitcoin as means of settlement for you to take advantage of that.

I think I would focus on this part

The laws of your country affects you not Bitcoin and if it gets branded as a crime to use Bitcoin
There isn't much you can do if it gets known.


How People use Bitcoin doesn't change the fact what it is
As long as they don't start attacking it on a consensus level
Then any other action was a choice on your part.

I have no doubt how much Bitcoin has been trying to be regulated and centralized in recent times by several governments of countries including the U.S, just to fit into a major part of the use case applications in the society at large.

Decentralization hasn't failed at all because people still have their keys along with ways and means to own hardware wallets and the P2P system is still actively in availability. It's more like decentralization has been improvised upon to make it more of a dual track system.

The truth I know is that it ultimately depends on how a user uses decentralized system mostly when they own Bitcoin, because clearly when you intend to do some transactions like buying a few things, you will have to adopt centralized systems and tools to achieve it and it is also because of how the government of your country perceives Bitcoin and crypto currencies before it really matters how a user uses it.

[Abu-Naim]

I have a question about Bitcoin.

Since people can use Bitcoin as a way to settle payments but centralisation is the one in control of it all, does this mean that decentralisation have failed in payment solution part?

Because even US is now making it seem like crypto acceptance is for only those in the US, if you are out of the US you are on your own, it is like your own country needs to accept Bitcoin as means of settlement for you to take advantage of that.

What are people calling it? Cross bordering payment? If feels more like centralised payment solution using bitcoin.

You did not understand the concept of decentralization and centralization. For the fact that one government accept Bitcoin and other doesn’t accept doesn’t mean that it is centralized or under government control it is still under your control if you can use it the way it is supposed to be.

Payment method is mostly controlled by business owners, so accepting Bitcoin payment within or outside US depends on the payment method the business owners feels comfortable to accept, it can be Bitcoin, and it can be fiat; the government have no business with that.

[Finestream]

Decentralization still works, but in a regulated world. The need for p2p usage and proactive self-custody are still required to maintain full sovereignty. However, for bitcoin to be accepted as a global payment currency, the government should see to it that it complies those government rules and policies as a taxable asset so that it can freely perform as a currency and use it without border limits.

But with peer to peer transactions, its fully a decentralized thing, you don't need any centralized entity to act on it.

[uchegod-21]

@op, it is a matter of choice for people to use Bitcoin in a decentralized or centralized way. Decentralization has always existed and still does to this day. It is just that some people have chosen to prioritize convenience over freedom. The fact that there are now numerous third-party payment platforms does not mean that centralization is now in control; it can only control those who use it, not the entire Bitcoin network and its users.

Oftentimes, people subconsciously make remarks suggesting that the Bitcoin network is slowly becoming centralized as more and more people move toward centralized platforms like exchanges and other custodial services. I want to make it clear that centralization is never a flaw in Bitcoin; it is users choosing to do what they are already used to, which is the traditional banking system. If today everyone decides to stick only to decentralization, the network will still be exactly as it was designed to be decentralized.

[Somegory]

I really like the way Electrum and other non custodial wallets operate in the space. If the peer to peer services were also like that, . things would have been better. Though there are some decentralized exchanges in the industry but in my country or region, it looks like those services providers are not in existence. Because I have not seen anyone using them. And the reason why centralized exchanges are in control of the market because their buying prices are better than the decentralized exchanges. Even at that if decentralized exchanges want to make things right, they can do it. They have to change method of operation.

They are not functioning you meant to say? It's the people's fault, they are the reasons why decentralised platforms for crypto exchange isn't flourishing, people are so used to centralised exchanges because they feel it's easier and anything thats too easy isn't good.

They are like sugar that helps cancer cells, people just know what decentralisation means but they don't practice it, they have no single reason to do so, this is why some of them have the nerve to store Bitcoin on the hands of centralised exchanges.

The few P2P platforms are limited on terms of available trades, there is no even a single open trade in my location, people are avoiding Dex and real P2P platforms, it's why they feel ease dropping KYC to Cex for P2P trades, isn't that weird?

[Darker45]

Then you aren't referring to Bitcoin itself. It seems the narrative that penetrated in the consciousness of many is that Bitcoin transactions are those that happen within centralized apps or platforms. That's wrong. These transactions actually don't take place in the Bitcoin network. And it is in this setup that centralization remains the rule. As such, they're bound by regulations, indirectly controlled by powerful agencies and personalities, and so on.

If you stick with non-custodial wallets and transact on-chain, borders don't even exist. The network is global. Payments are peer-to-peer. Transactions don't go through any third parties for approval or rejection. Everything happens in a decentralized setup.

[The Cryptovator]

Since people can use Bitcoin as a way to settle payments but centralisation is the one in control of it all, does this mean that decentralisation have failed in payment solution part?

Because even US is now making it seem like crypto acceptance is for only those in the US, if you are out of the US you are on your own, it is like your own country needs to accept Bitcoin as means of settlement for you to take advantage of that.

What are people calling it? Cross bordering payment? If feels more like centralised payment solution using bitcoin.

Bitcoin itself will exist decentralised forever, regardless of whoever is using or storing it. Where accepted, Bitcoin could be spent there; if a centralised organisation uses Bitcoin, it doesn't mean Bitcoin becomes a centralised payment. If our country doesn't allow Bitcoin payments, then it's not Bitcoin's fault; rather, it's our government's issues.

Bitcoin is still a cross-border payment system where you can transfer it without any third-party involvement. I admit due to high fees and duration, merchants aren't much interested in accepting Bitcoin, and buyers are also not much interested as well. But for the big payment, Bitcoin is still working fine; otherwise, we need to implement the Lightning Network to solve payment issues.

[Z-tight]

It is hard to make sense of the op. If you are a merchant who wants to accept BTC, you simply provide your BTC address or through a qr code for your customers. If you choose to receive payments through a third party service, then that does not affect what BTC is in itself.

Because even US is now making it seem like crypto acceptance is for only those in the US, if you are out of the US you are on your own, it is like your own country needs to accept Bitcoin as means of settlement for you to take advantage of that.

Lol, i don't think even you know what you're trying to say here. However, BTC is censorship resistant, so you do not need the approval of the authorities to send BTC to any part of the world.

[kazilunex]

I have a question about Bitcoin.

Since people can use Bitcoin as a way to settle payments but centralisation is the one in control of it all, does this mean that decentralisation have failed in payment solution part?

Because even US is now making it seem like crypto acceptance is for only those in the US, if you are out of the US you are on your own, it is like your own country needs to accept Bitcoin as means of settlement for you to take advantage of that.

What are people calling it? Cross bordering payment? If feels more like centralised payment solution using bitcoin.

It can feel like centralisation is still there especially because governments and big platforms are involved when you use bitcoin through apps or exchanges. But bitcoin itself is still decentralized so no country or company actually controls the network or transactions on the blockchain. Youre seeing is more about on ramps and services like exchanges, payment processors and regulations not the bitcoin itself. cross border payments with btc can still feel centralizsed in practice but the base system is still open and decentralized

[Die_empty]

I have a question about Bitcoin.

Since people can use Bitcoin as a way to settle payments but centralisation is the one in control of it all, does this mean that decentralisation have failed in payment solution part?

Because even US is now making it seem like crypto acceptance is for only those in the US, if you are out of the US you are on your own, it is like your own country needs to accept Bitcoin as means of settlement for you to take advantage of that.

What are people calling it? Cross bordering payment? If feels more like centralised payment solution using bitcoin.

Bitcoin is a currency and everybody have the option of using P2P or a centralized platform. You can still use Bitcoin using decentralized platforms. In my country, Bitcoin is not widely accepted but it has become helpful in international trade. The use of Bitcoin is not limited to the US, although we know that it has a high rate of adoption and use as currency. You are right that centralization in the crypto industry is increasing; however, Bitcoin can still be used for payment without an intermediary or middleman. .

[abaeze]

I have a question about Bitcoin.

Since people can use Bitcoin as a way to settle payments but centralisation is the one in control of it all, does this mean that decentralisation have failed in payment solution part?

Because even US is now making it seem like crypto acceptance is for only those in the US, if you are out of the US you are on your own, it is like your own country needs to accept Bitcoin as means of settlement for you to take advantage of that.

What are people calling it? Cross bordering payment? If feels more like centralised payment solution using bitcoin.

Bitcoin itself is not centralized but many services built on top of it are centralized and these are operated by people like you and me. So, the decentralized network of Bitcoin and the centralized systems built for user convenience are two different things.You can send BTC or stable coin directly to someone through a Peer to Peer system that no government, bank, or company can control. However, if you intentionally or unintentionally move from a decentralized system to a centralized system, it is not the fault of the system. So if you do not know how to use crypto, you may misunderstand the core system of Bitcoin, which is basically a user problem.

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

Bitcoin itself is not centralized but many services built on top of it are centralized and these are operated by people like you and me.

Like "you and me", seriously, it is not like that.

You and OP don't have business to run, and very likely don't use any centralized payment processor, so you and OP are more like normal Bitcoin users. Surely you guys both can use Bitcoin in decentralized ways, store bitcoins and broadcast bitcoins by yourself as own custodians of your bitcoins.

Don't use centralized payment processor, don't store bitcoin on centralized online websites, that are enough to enjoy decentralization of Bitcoin blockchain.