Does bitcoin actually offer the freedom humanity strive ?

[AuchanX]

The main strength of Bitcoin is that it is permissionless, decentralized, and self-custody. That means we can control our assets without the permission of a bank, payment company, or third party. And we can also send them to someone else. If you think about it this way, Bitcoin certainly gives us a great deal of freedom.

But some people buy Bitcoin and don't use it the way it was originally intended. They store it on a centralized exchange, which means they're not actually holding the Bitcoin, but rather holding a claim to the exchange. That's a problem.

[AML Soap]

The two posts quoted below seem to have opposite views, but they can both be correct. Bitcoin "is about removing the intermediaries or third party institution in our transactions." The BTC whitepaper also has "words like permissionless, censorship resistance and all talks about decentralization all of them points to one thing which is freedom. So bitcoin was actually here for freedom, to actually liberate us from some centralized monetary system not to take over totally but to be an alternative."

Q) Does bitcoin actually offer freedom?
A) Yes, only for people who are willing and able to pursue that freedom without giving up too soon.

Q) Which side are you on now, do you desire and attempt to be truly free, or have you given up?
ps. I pretty much "gave up" a long time ago, but I do not recommend this for anyone else.

If we look at the whitepaper, there is no way in it that discuss about freedom the humanity strive (whatever you are hinting).  It is about removing the intermediaries or third party institution in our transactions.  It is that, people who are so dedicated in promoting Bitcoin emphasis this so called freedom propaganda to propagate the use of Bitcoin, which is later accepted by many users of Bitcoin and is implanted to many new users.

If ever, these so called freedom is the result it is never been the written goal in the Bitcoin whitepaper.

Freedom as a word was never mentioned in the whitepaper directly but reading the whitepaper all indicates towards freedom. The words like permissionless, censorship resistance and all talks about decentralization all of them points to one thing which is freedom. So bitcoin was actually here for freedom, to actually liberate us from some centralized monetary system not to take over totally but to be an alternative.

On till today bitcoin has never change from this view, it depends on how you use bitcoin. Take for example it’s actually pseudonymous and at that you can decide to be anonymous or not, it’s not in place of bitcoin to dictate which one to be, same thing as using centralized exchanges or decentralized exchanges, bitcoin doesn’t enforces any thing.

It remains an alternative for anyone seeking freedom which isn’t offered in fiat currency

[Joy- maker]

- Have we adopted the wrong way of using bitcoin and shy away from the main idea of satoshi?

- Are we going about the use of bitcoin the way satoshi would have appreciate more if he were to be here with us?

I can't say that we have completely gone strayed from the main idea of Satoshi, rather Bitcoin just evolved into something better. Initially the main purpose of creating Bitcoin has not fully played out, because we discovered other better uses for it.

There is a saying that, when people discover an with a long term growth potential, they are less likely not to spend it. Because spending it feels like giving up future potential. Therefore, I clearly understand why people are no longer using Bitcoin the Satoshi intended it to be used.

[Smack That Ace]

I’ll like to here others view about freedom and if truly bitcoin offer such.

You need to understand that everyone has a different concept of freedom. There are many people who, simply by possessing massive fortune, can buy anything they want and are not constrained by money. For them, that is freedom, not necessarily privacy or being free from surveillance or monitoring.

The truth is that what most people in the world want is financial wealth, not escaping dependence on bank or government control.

[d5000]

I'll focus on two questions because the first two are a bit too generic.

- Is there any freedom as in the use of centralized  network when we can actually use a decentralized network?
- Whats freedom if holding could be freeze on centralized exchange and also be taxed as capital gain ?

I think both questions are more or less addressing the same issue. And I believe that even a heavy CEX user has still some freedoms other assets do not provide.

Even if you use centralized exchanges there is one freedom CEXes can't take from you: the fact that you are holding a currency (or asset) not influenced by a centralized monetary policy (i.e. "money printing"). Even stocks can be printed when the capital is increased and thus the holdings of the individual owner are diluted. In contrast, Bitcoin has a decentralized price finding process and can't be diluted.

There is also the relative security that as long as the exchange doesn't change its terms, you will be able at any time to withdraw your coins to self-custody. Try to self-custody a company share today   (it's still possible I guess, but nobody does it)

- All this are making me think bitcoin isn’t still treated as it’s supposed to be because if was treated the proper way, all this challenge would not even be there.
In my opinion freedom has more to do than just being able to send funds from cross countries without the involvement of any banking institution.

There are relatively few polls why people use centralized exchanges, but there was a Chinese study in 2022 [1] which highlighted that most users did not even care about decentralization, and instead were convinced that the CEXes could be trusted. They used Bitcoin for speculation. And if that is the reason you use it, then often the hassles associated with self-custody and DEXes / P2P exchanges are considered unnecessary. CEXes currently are simply easier to use.

There may also be the fear to lose crypto due to technical errors, while when hodling on a CEX, you have someone you can blame.

How to revert that? I admit that I also use CEXes, but I try to withdraw my coins early, so at most some change money stays there. And I use instant exchanges which are more convenient to use if you use self-custodial wallets as there is no withdraw process and you only give up custody for a few minutes or at most a couple of hours. DEXes have inconveniences that are not easy to solve, above all if you trade fiat for crypto. But limiting the usage of CEX to real trading operations would be a good start for people recovering the full freedoms Bitcoin offers.


[1] https://arxiv.org/pdf/2204.08664

[Luzin]

In my opinion freedom has more to do than just being able to send funds from cross countries without the involvement of any banking institution.
I’ll like to here others view about freedom and if truly bitcoin offer such.

What you mean by freedom here may be very broad. But this freedom is not absolute. From the outside, there are rules that bind us as living beings who have reason and thought. So the freedom offered is limited to certain conditions. If this were absolute freedom without control, would the world be healthy? Countries in the world will never fully liberate because they are unable to control, and that could have negative effects on the country's condition.

So currently, we see many countries adopting laws to limit issues that could cause harm. In general, Bitcoin offers more self-control, but above Bitcoin, there are still higher institutions that provide regulation. This is because we live in a certain country that has specific rules. So wherever you are, if you still live within a certain country, you will not be able to escape the rules.

[aoluain]

- All this are making me think bitcoin isn’t still treated as it’s supposed to be because if was treated the proper way, all this challenge would not even be there.
In my opinion freedom has more to do than just being able to send funds from cross countries without the involvement of any banking institution.
I’ll like to here others view about freedom and if truly bitcoin offer such.

If we look at the whitepaper, there is no way in it that discuss about freedom the humanity strive (whatever you are hinting).  It is about removing the intermediaries or third party institution in our transactions.  It is that, people who are so dedicated in promoting Bitcoin emphasis this so called freedom propaganda to propagate the use of Bitcoin, which is later accepted by many users of Bitcoin and is implanted to many new users.

If ever, these so called freedom is the result it is never been the written goal in the Bitcoin whitepaper.

Thats right, Satoshi never mentioned freedom financial or otherwise for the masses. The very first
sentence in the whitepaper pretty much states Satoshi's main intention for Bitcoin.

Abstract.  A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent
directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution.

Its only since Bitcoin experienced enormous growth in the market that its perceived it can lift everybody
out of poverty and give everyone 'freedom'.

Yes freedom from having to use a bank or intermediary if you want to send money.
Yes freedom if you want to store whatever wealth you have for the long term against inflation

The key though is to become your own bank and take control of it, get funds out of banks and centralised
exchanges and into wallets you fully control.

[Hewlet]

- Are we going about the use of bitcoin the way satoshi would have appreciate more if he were to be here with us?

- Is there any freedom as in the use of centralized  network when we can actually use a decentralized network?

As the adoption of bitcoin continues to grow and more and more people gets involved in bitcoin investment, things is certainly going to change to an extent and will never remain the way they were at the time bitcoin was created by Satoshi.

We have to also agree that it's not possible to see everything that will eventually play out around bitcoin from the point of it creation and that it's only time that will reveal a lot of things to us. That being said, the key things that have changed evidently is deals mainly in area of humans preferences and still real investors are still fixed on relying on offline options rather than saving Thier asset in an exchange. It's only short term traders that makes everything about Thier investment to become dependent on centralise exchanges.

[YellowSwap]

This is not the first time this has been discussed. It had been discussed before I joined the forum and when I came too we have discussed it many times. The uses of bitcoin today is not the core initiative of Satoshi Nakamoto. He created it to be an alternative decentralized financial economy. We were to use it to buy or pay things in a decentralized way from the Centralized traditional methods. But it seems that the Centralized traditional methods is still dominating. For me, the main purpose of Satoshi Nakamoto for creating bitcoin has not been actualized. And now that store of value or investment has taking over the mandate, Satoshi Nakamoto would have created a decentralized marketplace for p2p for the decentralization of bitcoin. And as for your topical question, I will say No.

The centralised traditional method isn't just dominating, they won already, look around you and see for yourself.

The top crypto exchanges in the world are all centralised.
Every thing that got approval about Bitcoin are all centralised power draw, including ETFs.
BlackRock and other big financial industries are all here because of control.

Now, people are supposed to be powerful with Bitcoin been decentralised, but this same set of people are good entrusting their information into the hands of centralisation.

You will be shocked by how many customers banks are going to have when they start offering crypto services, this I bet with anyone who doesn't believe it.

[Basels]

All these depend on your definition of freedom. What freedom does Bitcoin offer? To me, what Bitcoin offers is:
1) Freedom to make wealth for those who initially adopted it if they didn't sell of their holdings.
2) Freedom to receive and send money without relying on the established and licenced entities such as the banks and traditional payment platforms.
3) Freedom to hold your money privately or even secretly without anyone else necessarily knowing that you own such money.
4) Freedom to circumvent government scrutiny as long as you do not move your Bitcoin out of the Bitcoin network.

Beyond these, I do not see any other freedom Bitcoin offers. Are these freedom enough? Perhaps, though though some would have demanded more while others wish that the government has no way of interfering with how we use Bitcoin.

[Agbe]

You will be shocked by how many customers banks are going to have when they start offering crypto services, this I bet with anyone who doesn't believe it.

Even now in Binance, those p2p agents that are buying or selling bitcoin with millions are bank managers and senior rank staffs in the bank. I have encountered with two or 4 persons from the bank. I was expecting the decentralized marketplace in the cryptocurrency space most specifically bitcoin but that has been thrown away and centralized system has taken over everything. Bitcoin developers and non custodial wallets developers have to do more on this issue.

[Jostern]

It depends on what strategy you’re talking about and the freedom you’re talking about because you will never know if any of that is actually true or false, I have been investing in bitcoin, and I must say that bitcoin have been a grate freedom for anyone who is investing in bitcoin depending on what what you’re using bitcoin for, either you’re using bitcoin for investment or you’re trading bitcoin then you will have to quantify if you’re actually making any real profits from bitcoin, well I believe if you’re investing and holding bitcoin for a very long time there is an opportunity that it gives you the freedom that you’re looking for while investing in bitcoin.

[JigzawMarzipan]

Bitcoin offers a type of freedom, but not complete freedom. It gives people control over their own money without needing a bank, and allows sending value anywhere without permission. That’s powerful, especially in places with unstable systems. But it also comes with responsibility and limits. You must secure your own funds, and governments can still regulate exchanges and access. So Bitcoin offers financial freedom at the individual level, but it doesn’t solve every problem or remove all control from systems. 

[Rabata]

Everyone has complete freedom to use Bitcoin but users are not using Bitcoin for the purpose for which it was originally created. Some people try to do so, but most have deviated from the original intention. The purpose of using Bitcoin was to perform financial tasks anonymously. So that people can get real financial freedom, but nowadays, KYC has been made mandatory in centralized exchanges, which is why we are definitely moving away from the real purpose of Bitcoin. Where the decentralized system was given priority, KYC is destroying that decentralized system. In order to implement the tax policy of the governments, Bitcoin is having to move away from the purpose. People are benefiting from Bitcoin, but it is losing importance from the point of view of Satoshi's purpose. But here Bitcoin has no liability because Bitcoin will be used the way it is used. If someone doesn't like to remain anonymous, it's their own business to be the center of attention.

[Zoomic]

- Have we adopted the wrong way of using bitcoin and shy away from the main idea of satoshi?

Many are using bitcoin the wrong way while few are using it the right way, but the most important thing is that we are using it.

- Are we going about the use of bitcoin the way satoshi would have appreciate more if he were to be here with us?

If Satoshi were to be here, he will be interested in what the bitcoin developers do in the bitcoin network and not how users use bitcoin.

- Is there any freedom as in the use of centralized  network when we can actually use a decentralized network?

I have argued this before, that the real freedom is being able to use bitcoin in both centralized way and decentralized way. When it is freedom, you are free to do anything with your money. If you decide to hand it over to the government, it is your choice. And if you decide to use it in a private way, it's also your choice.

[Z-tight]

How you or anybody else decide to use BTC, does not change what it actually is, neither does it change the protocol. If Bob decides to use a centealized exchange to store their BTC, does it mean BTC does not offer freedom to those who store their coins in Electrum and store the backup safely in their home. I believe we have gone over these things one time too many.

Satoshi created a p2p electronic cash, and that's what BTC is. However, such a 'revolutionary' product cannot exist for a single use case. And since we are also talking about freedom, i believe it is right to allow people use BTC how they want to. I would never support the idea of trying to police people into a certain way of using BTC, all in the name of 'the main idea of Satoshi'.

[Bit-Mj1014]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately, and honestly, it’s a bit of a double edged sword. On one hand it’s amazing to see how far Bitcoin has come it’s no longer just a nerd idea. But on the other hand, it feels like we’ve traded some of the original rebel energy for convenience. Most people I know are just checking a price app on their phone, which feels a lot like checking a traditional bank account.I think the freedom part of Bitcoin isn't something that just happens to us, it’s a skill we have to learn, too bad its not being thought as much as it should. It’s scary the first time you move your funds to a cold wallet or try to explain to a friend why decentralization actually matters. It’s much easier to just leave it on an exchange and hope for the best. But to the OP’s point, if we only use Bitcoin through the same centralized gatekeepers we were trying to bypass, are we actually free? Or are we just in a new building with the same locks on the doors? For me, the freedom is in the choice. Even if the whole world goes back to centralized apps, the fact that we can opt out and be our own bank is a win for us, that we didn't have 20 years ago. We just can't get lazy and forget how to use it.

[purple_sparkles]

I think the main idea behind bitcoin is freedom of choice, how it can be used, the ability to make payments, or support loved ones despite borders, laws, and other obstacles. Bitcoin has also proven itself over time as a strong investment asset. If we want to preserve our savings over a long period and potentially earn a return, bitcoin has shown itself to be a reliable option.

[Bushdark]

The main strength of Bitcoin is that it is permissionless, decentralized, and self-custody. That means we can control our assets without the permission of a bank, payment company, or third party. And we can also send them to someone else. If you think about it this way, Bitcoin certainly gives us a great deal of freedom.

But some people buy Bitcoin and don't use it the way it was originally intended. They store it on a centralized exchange, which means they're not actually holding the Bitcoin, but rather holding a claim to the exchange. That's a problem.

The decentralized nature of Bitcoin has made it unique giving us the financial freedom we are looking to get from holding it.
Holding other coins does not have the kind of privacy we are getting especially for those Centralized projects that are dominating crypto.
The fiat payment system can not to be compared to the kind of privacy we can get when we use the blockchain to make transaction which remove that easy identification of who is making a transaction. Many of use are already used to spending money using fiat payment system which is making it to look like crypto payment can be delayed.

[Hazink]

Of truth, some people really don't even care about the vision of Satoshi before the development and creation of bitcoin. All they care about is how they can put their money into it and get profit in return nothing else matters to them.

If we are really to be going by that vision centralized exchanges should not be having the amount of trading volume that they have while dex which share same vision is perceived by many as untrustworthy etc., government is just through regulation trying to make crypto no different from fiat and holders are really given them the chance.