Trezor Model 1 and Safe 3 - Check Backup/Dry Run Failed !

[Report4You]

https://i.ibb.co/9dRGyqM/trezor-safe-3-size-comparison-1024x539.jpg

Good morning ,

This morning i made a backup check for my Trezor Model 1 (24 Words) and Safe 3 (12 Words).

In both cases the Backup Test /Dry Run did Fail !

The reason : in both cases in my Seed i have words that are NOT in the BIP39 word list !

For the Model One the culprit word is the word 'Enquiry'.

Which is not in the BIP39 word list ! In the BiP39 list there is the word 'Inquiry', but it does not work !!

In the case of the Safe 3, instead, the culprit is the word 'Initiate'.

Again, in the BIP39 word list the is the word 'Initial', but i does nto work !

My question is : since both Trezor were bought new, and i personally did wwrote down the Seed....why these words ? From where did the come from ?

[OmegaStarScream]

It means that you wrote them wrong. The device cannot display words that does not exist in the BIP39/SLIP39 dictionary.

And if changing the words to the correct one did not work, it means you have done another mistake elsewhere. Another word, or the order.

[Report4You]

It means that you wrote them wrong.

As far as you know, is there any way to find the correct words if I have written something wrong?

The device cannot display words that does not exist in the BIP39/SLIP39 dictionary.

Yes, I mentioned that there are some words in my seed phrase that are not included in the BIP39 word list.

And if changing the words to the correct one did not work, it means you have done another mistake elsewhere. Another word, or the order.

Maybe I have been trying for a very long time in many different ways, but I still have not been successful. I cannot figure out where I am making the mistake.

[OmegaStarScream]

-snip-
Maybe I have been trying for a very long time in many different ways, but I still have not been successful. I cannot figure out where I am making the mistake.

Did you check all of the words, and the two you mentioned are the only ones that are not in the list? If so, it's possible that the words you replaced them with are also wrong, for example:

Enquiry could've been: energy, enroll, entry?
same thing with initiate: inhate, inherit, inquiry, injury maybe?

even if it's unlikely.

Although probably not the most recommended way... you could try and use this tool: https://github.com/iancoleman/bip39
By downloading it and running it locally offline (Live USB) so your seedphrase is never exposed.

It's faster than doing dry-runs, and you could try checking multiple words, if the seedphrase is "valid", then you can try and check it again using the device to see if it matches.

[Report4You]

-snip-
Maybe I have been trying for a very long time in many different ways, but I still have not been successful. I cannot figure out where I am making the mistake.

Did you check all of the words, and the two you mentioned are the only ones that are not in the list? If so, it's possible that the words you replaced them with are also wrong, for example:

Enquiry could've been: energy, enroll, entry?
same thing with initiate: inhate, inherit, inquiry, injury maybe?

-snip-

i have 2 Trezor backup Cards for each Trezor, both says 'Initiate' for the Safe Three.

Same thing for the Model One, 'Enquiry' i wrote down,.

It is nearly impossible that i made a typo writing down both Trazors for 2 Cards each !

I mean, maybe in the past it was not BIP39 but another set of words ?

Maybe it was a typo, but it seems SO strange to me !!

[NotATether]

Since you have the devices and appear to be able to access them, why not simply export the seed phrase again?

Or do Trezor devices not allow this?

In any rate, since it's just a dry run, you can connect your Trezor to a computer with Electrum or Sparrow or another wallet, and then opt to display the seed phrase or private keys from there.

[OmegaStarScream]

-snip-

I bought the Trezor one over a decide ago. It always used BIP39.

Trezor Safe 3 is a new model and supports both BIP39 and SLIP39. See here:

https://trezor.io/learn/security-privacy/personal-security-standards/understanding-trezor-wallet-backups-12-20-or-24-words#backup-format-by-device

But since you're saying 12 words and 24 words. It's most definitely BIP39 and if it was SLIP39, it would've been easier to spot the problem as per their FAQ:

We believe this improved 20-word standard builds on our previous one with many important improvements for wallet backup and recovery. It provides more ways to make backups, guaranteeing safer and more reliable self-custody for everyone.

You can seamlessly move from a standard Single-share Backup to an advanced Multi-share Backup for distributed security without a single point of failure.

It also includes a new wordlist, with specially chosen words that are easier to tell apart than before. If you make one mistake in your backup, you’ll know which word is wrong. If you make two or three mistakes, you’ll know how many words are incorrect.

If you do know the PIN of your device (which I assumed you don't if you're asking this?), it's probably easier to follow the above suggestion then trying to guess the seedphrase.

[Report4You]

Since you have the devices and appear to be able to access them, why not simply export the seed phrase again?

Or do Trezor devices not allow this?

Trezor devices usually do not allow users to export or display the seed phrase again directly.

The reason is security if the device could easily show the seed phrase, malware or other attackers could potentially steal it.

In any rate, since it's just a dry run, you can connect your Trezor to a computer with Electrum or Sparrow or another wallet, and then opt to display the seed phrase or private keys from there.

Also, as far as I know, it is not possible to show the seed phrase from a Trezor hardware wallet by using Electrum or Sparrow.

Trezor’s security design is made in a way that the seed phrase never leaves the secure environment of the device.

When I connect Electrum or Sparrow, the software wallet only gets permission to sign transactions, not to read the seed phrase.

If you do know the PIN of your device (which I assumed you don't if you're asking this?), it's probably easier to follow the above suggestion then trying to guess the seedphrase.

By the way, I have decided to create a new wallet and transfer my funds from the old wallet to the new one, even though I may lose some money in transaction fees. Do you think this could be risky for me?

[Cricktor]

Did your Trezor devices generate the mnemonic recovery words or came your Trezors with a pre-filled recovery words card? (The latter would be obviously a malicious attempt to scam you.)

When you wrote down the recovery words, did you write down the sequence number of each word?

Sometimes a common error when not writing the words with sequence numbers is the following when written in columns and rows:
variant 1

word1  word2
word3  word4
word5  word6
word7  word8
word9  word10
word11 word12

variant 2

word1  word7
word2  word8
word3  word9
word4  word10
word5  word11
word6  word12

Same issue possible if you have e.g. three columns.

That's why I would always recommend to write the mnemonic words like this with numbering:

 1. word1   2. word2
 3. word3   4. word4
 5. word5   6. word6
 7. word7   8. word8
 9. word9  10. word10
11. word11 12. word12

or

1. word1   7. word7
2. word2   8. word8
3. word3   9. word9
4. word4  10. word10
5. word5  11. word11
6. word6  12. word12

[Report4You]

Did your Trezor devices generate the mnemonic recovery words or came your Trezors with a pre-filled recovery words card? (The latter would be obviously a malicious attempt to scam you.)

My Trezor device generated the mnemonic recovery words by itself when I turned it on for the first time.

There was no pre-filled recovery words card inside the box beforehand.

When you wrote down the recovery words, did you write down the sequence number of each word?

And while writing down the recovery words,

I also wrote the sequence number of each word, because keeping the correct order was the most important thing.

I did not want to permanently lose access to my wallet by mixing up the words.

[Cricktor]

...

OK, so your Trezor device generated the recovery words as it should be AND you numbered the individual words as shown by the device. So far, so good.

Does Trezor Suite detect your device as genuine (provided you downloaded and verified Trezor Suite from trezor.io)?

What is your source for the BIP39 wordlist? (Excuse if I ask the very obvious, but you never know.)

What I then don't understand (assuming you have no mental disorder, no offense!) how non-BIP39 words got into your mnemonic recovery words written backup! That's a bit puzzling, indeed. Normally, I would blame the user here, because as someone already said, the device won't show you non-BIP39/non-SLIP39 words, depending on what backup method you chose for your Trezor (the Trezor One doesn't know about SLIP39, IIRC).

As I don't have a Trezor hardware wallet, except for a DIY PiTrezor, but normally I use another hardware wallet, I can't tell if you can choose your recovery words to be other than from the English wordlist.

You used the English BIP39 recovery words? I ask this, because different language BIP39 wordlists are not interchangeable, even when you have a direct and correct translation!!

When you use wrong recovery words, your BIP39 checksum should fail, which is encoded in the last recovery word. Was this the case? And which software wallet part did you use, Trezor Suite or something else?

Before you send coins to your wallet, always verify that you can successfully do a desaster recovery restore and get the same wallet and crypto coin addresses!