Negative trust from holydarkness – time to address the real problem: [holy POV]

[holydarkness]

[...]

unbelievable. Holydarkness said that. I'll get link. Nutildah said it was word for word.

edit- I apologize for the mixup. I did misquote the wrong person. But I'll get the quotes from holydarkness saying the same. It was a mistake on my part. Obviously I'm not posting something that can be easily checked.

holydarkness

Regarding OP's arbitrage betting activity, I can't say much [as I am bound by for-my-eyes-only basis] other than that I've given a glimpse of what led them to struck the gavel and draw a verdict of arbing. Regarding arbing is a smart strategy or prohibited, I won't dive deep into that discussion right now, because specifically for this case, smart or not, they're irrelevant because they're simply prohibited, as per their ToS that I've captured and sitting in my gallery since few days ago:With above, unfortunately, like it or not, we have to consider OP as breaching the terms he agreed upon sign up. Thus, the casino is within their right to confiscate the rest of the fund.

Nutildah - I apologize for my false allegation of calling you a liar.

Care to explain how you superfluosuly failed to realize you misquote? And only after a self-moderated thread --where OOT and evasive answer will be screenshotted as proof of deflection, posted in allocated slot, and the removed from the thread-- and two DT jump in to spoon-feeding you painfully slowly and two extra tags, that you "realized"?

I mean... it's like a month past that, and I just like did so many times asking you that, complete with graphic image [I put that as appendix, just in case it derails your reading comprehension] that I barely say anything at that time, that I even believe my second grader nephew could understand like... three weeks ahead of you?

And STILL, the post you quoted --that happened on 24th June 2025, by the way-- and framed as me saying "the book is within its rights to void the winnings and only return the deposit", in a tone [inferred from sentences before and what follows] as something negative, i.e. what you tried to paint me in that thread, which I split into third section, is still a sentence that stick to fairness and integrity.

He did arbitrage, and you insist that I said and accuse that player of value bet and I lie and I invent rules, despite multipe gentle effort to calm you down and tell you that you mixed two threads. Arbing, in many casinos, are explicitly stated as a violation of ToS. So how does that correction you made above, is still something malevolent of me? And should it absolve you from calling me  names despite my numerous attempt to clarify? The slander stays as italready took its damage, I believe? No?

Feel free to corelate it with section one of my rebuttal in your thread, as that section specifically discussing this. Unfortunately, addressing point 1 will make you have to confront the qustion about our deal, but that'll be like killing two birds with one stone as you tackled two of seven sections of my rebuttal.


Third-Grader Summary: How does your correction here, absolve you from the slander to me?

[...]

Part Three

But there is a bigger, year-long pattern here.
This disagreement is not limited to the XYes case. For over a year I have consistently argued that when a player wins fair bets, the sportsbook owes him both his deposit and his full winnings.
holydarkness has repeatedly taken the opposite position, saying the book is within its rights to void the winnings and only return the deposit. His exact words in the XYes thread (June 27, 2025):
“LOL. The casino is within its rights. They did not scam anyone. ... They voided the winnings and returned the deposit. It could be considered a scam if they had confiscated the deposit as well. ... If they do not pay, no one can do anything because they are within their rights.”

holydarkness said what in 27th June 2025?


[...]

[Rating Place]

I put up a quote credited to the wrong person. It was a mistake. In not even a day two people red tagged it. This is why people complain about trust abuse. If I left it up a day after being pointed out, then it's relevant.

One thing, will you admit that I only go in to Sportsbook problems that involve value, arbitrage and fixes. And I wait a couple of weeks before entering the thread in case it's solved fast?

Our disagreement is more about arbitrage and value betting than odds provider. Read the rules that books put up. If they wouldn't hold up in court, then it should be ignored. Something such as we can close your account and confiscate your money at out own discretion should be thrown out. That's the difference between good and bad books. Most ignore crazy rules even though they have them.

I say that people should be paid for value bets. All that means is a good bet. You say that the rules allow them to confiscate winnings. My point is books have no proof of arbitrage betting since they need bet slips from two different books and providers showing that the player arbed and made both bets.

Flags are always by the provider for value and arbitrage. It's that way in 99% of the books unless they are an originator such as Pinnacle. They pay for the service. A flag is a warning that could be ignored.

95% of the books pay and limit arb/value. I don't think you should agree with the 5% that don't pay even if in their rules. It's a scam. I don't care if it's book or provider. The book is a scam for following.

Will you admit that it's a scam to confiscate money for value and arbitrage?

I do apologize for misquoting you. I can get other quotes saying the same if you want me to get those. It wasn't meant to twist a meaning. You have said those thoughts, I think in Rollbit. Other times you say winnings. Neither is right.

[Xiestar]

I put up a quote credited to the wrong person. It was a mistake. In not even a day two people red tagged it. This is why people complain about trust abuse. If I left it up a day after being pointed out, then it's relevant.

One thing, will you admit that I only go in to Sportsbook problems that involve value, arbitrage and fixes. And I wait a couple of weeks before entering the thread in case it's solved fast?

There’s a preview button that you can use to cross check whatever post you are writing. You are challenging the reputation of someone very helpful to the community so all eyes is on your post.

Seems like you are just using the trust system by playing victim when you get the attention after being a dick against someone that offering a genuine help to the community without being paid by the casino. That’s FAFO.

Stop being a pajeet and just focus on your rating thread niche. You are acting as a Saul Goodman lawyer to shady players.

[Rating Place]

I put up a quote credited to the wrong person. It was a mistake. In not even a day two people red tagged it. This is why people complain about trust abuse. If I left it up a day after being pointed out, then it's relevant.

One thing, will you admit that I only go in to Sportsbook problems that involve value, arbitrage and fixes. And I wait a couple of weeks before entering the thread in case it's solved fast?

There’s a preview button that you can use to cross check whatever post you are writing. You are challenging the reputation of someone very helpful to the community so all eyes is on your post.

Seems like you are just using the trust system by playing victim when you get the attention after being a dick against someone that offering a genuine help to the community without being paid by the casino. That’s FAFO.

Stop being a pajeet and just focus on your rating thread niche. You are acting as a Saul Goodman lawyer to shady players.

Edit to make it short

1. I don’t get in many cases, they are just long. 1 case first two pages.
2. I wait a couple of weeks to make sure they are innocent.
3. Holy just ruled binding arbitration for the casino for $30,000. These people need help.

[nutildah]

You are acting as a Saul Goodman lawyer to shady players.

Haha, that's true. And I'm impressed you know who Saul Goodman is.

Saul Goodman was actually way more talented than this guy. He just got too greedy.

There's a lesson in there somewhere.

[Rating Place]

You are acting as a Saul Goodman lawyer to shady players.

Haha, that's true. And I'm impressed you know who Saul Goodman is.

Saul Goodman was actually way more talented than this guy. He just got too greedy.

There's a lesson in there somewhere.

Maybe holy's good with casinos but he's not helping sports players get winnings. The Shuffle guy lost $30,000 on holy's ruling that two people played from the account.

Without help, they would have said he’s guilty of match fixing because of a warning flag.

[holydarkness]

Rating Place, read this very very carefully. I am not ordering, I am not forcing, I am asking kindly. Because this is probably one of the few remains where I'll go down to your level and break down each and every point you make, to make it clear to you. The explanation is there, but like before, in anticipation of your reading comprehension skill, a summary for each segment is marked in red:

I put up a quote credited to the wrong person. It was a mistake. In not even a day two people red tagged it. This is why people complain about trust abuse. If I left it up a day after being pointed out, then it's relevant.

Yeah, it is not even a day... it's weeks from me myself, the one you accuse, and defended by literally image of my posting history that show you I said nothing like that.

Then a quick look up showed me that nutildah has been on it too from 8th, so it's three days. He even quote you word by word, literally. Literally. He spelled it out to you that the quote you claimed to be mine is actually GoT's, he explained it again and again, and you said he twist words instead of clicking the quoted link to crosscheck yourself, you call him wrong and spreading fake news.

It was only until a third DT come and tagged you, Stalker22, and perhaps with a chance that you'll get your written contract flagged, and you complained on a new thread only to realize no other DT jump in to intervene and "protect" you, that you realized you're neck-deep and reflect to it [TBH, I'm not sure if you reflect to it like really reading it or finally drop the pretense when the status quo tipped].

You created a thread about me on Repu, challenging my repu, and I come fist-to-fist, word-to-word with what you accuse, and you inferred that you barely read my defense? So what's actually the purpose of that thread? Is it really to have an open discussion with me or to "peer-pressure" me?

third grader summary: So... yeah, "in not even a day two people red tagged it" it's from cummulative days.

One thing, will you admit that I only go in to Sportsbook problems that involve value, arbitrage and fixes. And I wait a couple of weeks before entering the thread in case it's solved fast?

With honest no intention to undermine you... I honestly don't pay attention that much. You probably overvalued your significance in my life or the thread I'm attending. I have multiple cases at once, I barely recognize who enter at what point. Plus, you're on my ignore list until very recently, then on it again, and then off of it again as I want to make it all clear with you with no stone left unturned.

third grader summary: can't admit or testify to what I don't know to an extent.

Our disagreement is more about arbitrage and value betting than odds provider. Read the rules that books put up. If they wouldn't hold up in court, then it should be ignored. Something such as we can close your account and confiscate your money at out own discretion should be thrown out. That's the difference between good and bad books. Most ignore crazy rules even though they have them.

I pride myself in memorizing about half of the casinos ToS [it was rather easy as they're basically identical to each other], but it doesn't mean I didn't crosscheck to the latest ToS of those casino, when I pointed out the clauses to a case. And far as I know, from the top of my head, there is not any single casino in this forum who doesn't say they have th right to close account and confiscate fund at their own discretion.

But there's always a room for improvement, after all, I am just a human with only so many memory capacity. I always welcome when someone pointed me that I made a wrong. Mind to mention to us here which casino doesn't have that rule?

Because, unless you can point those casinos out, then by your own logic, all casinos are bad. Yes, even Fairlay,



third grader summary: kindly point out to casinos or sportbook that doesn't have the rule that state they reserve the right to confiscate and close account at their own discetion.

I say that people should be paid for value bets. All that means is a good bet. You say that the rules allow them to confiscate winnings. My point is books have no proof of arbitrage betting since they need bet slips from two different books and providers showing that the player arbed and made both bets.

Flags are always by the provider for value and arbitrage. It's that way in 99% of the books unless they are an originator such as Pinnacle. They pay for the service. A flag is a warning that could be ignored.

95% of the books pay and limit arb/value. I don't think you should agree with the 5% that don't pay even if in their rules. It's a scam. I don't care if it's book or provider. The book is a scam for following.

Will you admit that it's a scam to confiscate money for value and arbitrage?

Do you...? Do you even read what I posted earlier?

DO us all a favor, please? Read #32 and #33.

I mean, for the love of god! You created a new thread on repu, complaining that I threaten you with a flag, then lock it almost right away when stalker22 pointed a flaw in the thread, and now we're facing a possibility that you don't even read my explanation about sportsbook-provider dynamic that you so stubbornly deny to exist and offered and most likely used by many casinos.

Those two posts are the basis of our written agreement.

I've given my side to prove to you that flag matters, that provider's flag can't just be ignored without consequences, and sportsbook has to follow. All while the very basic and original agreement is far simpler: that XYes got that flag from the provider, and under turnkey-model agreement, they have to obey, they decided to not heeding the order from the provider due to "peer pressure" and consider that they need to built a reputation here first, thus pay from their own pocket, over and over, until they decide the forum was not for them because they feel like they're being bullied and extorted.

Have you seen the impact of your outdated knowledge of sportsbook-provider dynamiac now?

Have you really not reading those? Yet you complained that I threaten to raised a flag against you? Well, guess what? I revealed this in writing only to two members yesterday, but I think most DT can already see through me: that flag is was an empty threat, it was merely meant to "digitally slap" you and put you to pause, take a breath, and read, really read. That's why the amount was ridiculously interstellar [though you agreed to it anyway]. That's why no DT react to the flag, either here or on your locked thread.

I am running out of idea of how to get you to understand that things flows and evolve, situation changes and develops, sportsbook and provider wasn't like what you believe in your mind anymore. They follow trends and do innovation. All while you derail the entire SA with that hard-headedness of yours. I was hoping that the flag would help you understand that a thing called "turnkey model" exist.

And now you're heavily implying you're not reading? Well, the flag was an empty thread, but I would have to consider it as a serious one now, if that helps to penetrate your adamantite skull.

third grader summary: read post #32 and #33 of this thread.

I do apologize for misquoting you. I can get other quotes saying the same if you want me to get those. It wasn't meant to twist a meaning. You have said those thoughts, I think in Rollbit. Other times you say winnings. Neither is right.

Please fetch them, so we can clear my name and/or clarify that point. Use bitlist, it's the upgraded enhanced ninjastic, it'll help you by a lot.



For the last time: there were. not. match. fixing. THERE. WERE. NOT. it's integrity betting being in issue. I've explained to you over and over and over, and this is the last time. If you still insist that Shuffle v. pvzera1 case is match-fixing, someone else has to help you understand what it's really about because I am clearly failed miserably to help you understand, while all the other overseers there can understand just fine.

Edit to make it short

1. I don’t get in many cases, they are just long. 1 case first two pages.
2. I wait a couple of weeks to make sure they are innocent.
3. Holy just ruled binding arbitration for the casino for $30,000. These people need help.

Maybe holy's good with casinos but he's not helping sports players get winnings. The Shuffle guy lost $30,000 on holy's ruling that two people played from the account.

Without help, they would have said he’s guilty of match fixing because of a warning flag.

I'd argue that edit is to fix some typo or add some missing point, or to make consecutive post while not violating forum rules. Your version of edit clearly shows different message and tone. Nonetheless:

1. Ever consider that this is why you're so bad at mediating, despite your claim that you've solve much more than me [hey, I'm saying this with no intention of dick-measuring context, just pointing out an irony] behind the screen? You read first two pages and draw your conclusion? Ever crossed your mind that context are spread all over the entire thread, by each and every posters contributing on that thread, be it the player, the casino, or the overseers? Can't help but being curious, though, my post about turnkey method is within the two pages range of yours, yet you seemingly miserably failed to understand that. Why?

2. No comment.

3. holy just... what now? holy gave up on the thread because Rating Place keep jumping in with his "no proof of match fixing" things. So holy gave the thread to Rating Place as Rating Place seeemed so eager to solve the thread.

And by all means, it's all yours. I've removed myself as I call it enough.

The thread goes more or less like this: I got a progress with Tim through private conversation, I got a progress with pvzera1, I tried to match the narratives and build the puzzle into complete image to advance inch by inch to the bottom of it, you jump in with your discouraging words and propaganda and those "no match fixing" things,, pvzera1 clammed, the forum helps [shout out to nutildah and degen01] to get pvzera1 to re-cooperate, pvxera1 did, you returned with similar thing, pvzera1 clammed shut again, pvzera1 re-cooperate after overseers encouragement, things progressed again [rather significantly last time, as I can add more weight to pvzera1's scale] then you popped back in with what depicted below

The sportsbook has the OP bet history. Don’t ever do binding arbitration again. It’s absurd what you are doing.

Hhhhhhh...

Hey, you know what? Surprise...

OP, pvzera1, my deepest apology but I hereby unbind myself from the mediation and would like to nominate Rating Place as the one who will draw conclusion that will be used as verdict to this case.

Rating Place, time and place are given, please exercise your power, knowledge, and connection to gather information and draw conclusion. A friendly reminder: all eyes on the SA is on you and what you decide and what you say now.

And now you're saying, "Holy just ruled binding arbitration for the casino for $30,000. These people need help."?

[Rating Place]

Short to the point. The little things aren’t important. I only care about the players.

1. No one knows if you are serious about handing over the arbitration. I asked the OP. He said you didn’t answer his PM. $30,000 is on the line. Is the case over or not?

2. Ok, it’s more than a day. It’s not a big deal. I’m not even going to look. When I realized it, I apologized. You have posted the same. It’s just a gotcha moment. You listen to the sportsbooks ignoring facts. Shuffle was in your ear.

3. The important thing is for 2 years you have said that books can confiscate winnings. Just say it’s wrong and stop shifting the blame. You don’t understand that books can’t show proof of arbitrage.

4. My threads are closed. I dont care about you. My concern is you don’t understand the business and a lot of people are losing money.

5. I can get examples of cases solved if you want. You weren’t the reason for winnings being paid.

6. Stop talking about the past. I’m worried about current cases.

7. Integrity betting is a term that only you use. I never heard that used. Show me where anyone ever says “integrity betting”. It was the integrity of the game. Was it played fair or was it fixed.

8. All books put insane rules in ToS. Good ones never use it. I’ll look up the insane rules never used later too.


And one question. Does Betby make the decision for all 70 crypto books? They have different rules and ToS. If they put up a flag, do they need to abide by it? If you don’t answer then you prove my point and I don’t need to show proof that flags are warnings.

Edit- I missed that you want me to get quotes. You delete things such as the book is just the middleman. I’ll look later. I’ll get your qoutes and replies by others. No one will read a wall of quotes but I’ll get it for you. It’s not high priority so may take days.

If you want more answers, just ask and make it short to the point.

[holydarkness]

Short to the point. The little things aren’t important. I only care about the players.

1. No one knows if you are serious about handing over the arbitration. I asked the OP. He said you didn’t answer his PM. $30,000 is on the line. Is the case over or not?

I am, it's yours. Over or not, they're your call, you advise this and that, now I completely withdrawn myself [the same reason I didn't reply to his PM] and you're on the spotlight. Time to show your mediation skill to the overseers.

2. Ok, it’s more than a day. It’s not a big deal. I’m not even going to look. When I realized it, I apologized. You have posted the same. It’s just a gotcha moment. You listen to the sportsbooks ignoring facts. Shuffle was in your ear.

The way you dismiss such error, speaks volume.

3. The important thing is for 2 years you have said that books can confiscate winnings. Just say it’s wrong and stop shifting the blame. You don’t understand that books can’t show proof of arbitrage.

Have you not... read? Like? Really? The book [casino] has to confiscate winnings; else, there will be consequences. It's literally there. You want DeepSeek version of that ChatGPT? Grook?

4. My threads are closed. I dont care about you. My concern is you don’t understand the business and a lot of people are losing money.

Peeps, read. Jesus, Mary and Joseph, you embarass yourself. The explanation about how the business dynamic is there. Read. For your own sake and image and reputation.

5. I can get examples of cases solved if you want. You weren’t the reason for winnings being paid.

O...kay? I'm not sure why this being brought up, but... OK, if that will make you happy, you can bring examples of cases solved, here. And yes, I am not the reason for winnings being paid, have I ever say that I am the reason a winning being paid or not? If so, then my apology for the mortal sin of pride that possess me for brief seconds... ish.

6. Stop talking about the past. I’m worried about current cases.

Which past is this? I literally and honestly don't understand what part of my questions you're addressing at this point. I brought four points, and you answered with eight, of which only one actually being addressed... in the worst possible way: that it's not a big deal for you that you've slander someone for about a month.

7. Integrity betting is a term that only you use. I never heard that used. Show me where anyone ever says “integrity betting”. It was the integrity of the game. Was it played fair or was it fixed.

I... what now?

OK, you know what, cross that. I'll own that, for your own sanity and mental health.

My apology for over-simplifying words into your gotcha moment [see what I do here?]. By integrity betting, I am meaning to say that the casino questions the integrity of the bet the player did.

Clarified? Want to stretch it to ten other posts?

8. All books put insane rules in ToS. Good ones never use it. I’ll look up the insane rules never used later too.

I believe I do get what this part is about. This one, no?

Something such as we can close your account and confiscate your money at out own discretion should be thrown out.

When I brought up that Fairplay also have that rule, the brake hit the floor. Am I driving too close?

And one question. Does Betby make the decision for all 70 crypto books? They have different rules and ToS. If they put up a flag, do they need to abide by it? If you don’t answer then you prove my point and I don’t need to show proof that flags are warnings.

Is there only 70 crypto books in the entire planet earth? Well, to answer your question directly, assuming there are only 70 crypto books [casino sportsbetting section], I'll say it depends on what agreement they have with Betby. Is it turnkey? If so, what's the initial agreement of the turnkey model they adapt? Is it full control? Shared? What is the initial agreement on the risk management? Full risk control by the provider or capability of manual override, if manual override is chosen, how partial is the override is? Configuration on who control more of what aspect affect the payment agreement between the casino and the provider.

Really, it's all just one AI search away. Start by chatgpt or deepseek or grook or whatever AI you want, type "turnkey sportsbook", that'll be the beginning of your own journey to understand the system and update your own knowledge.

Edit- I missed that you want me to get quotes. You delete things such as the book is just the middleman. I’ll look later. I’ll get your qoutes and replies by others. No one will read a wall of quotes but I’ll get it for you. It’s not high priority so may take days.

If you want more answers, just ask and make it short to the point.

Hhhhhh... I delete what, now? That book [casino/sportsbook] is just the middleman? Why would I delete such thing? IT works coherently and perfectly with my explanation of turnkey.

And no, at this point, I don't want to ask further yet. It seems you're walking on the very edge of sanity. And I am really concerned here. Like, no sarcasm, not joking, all serious. You're rambling and a bit manic, if I may give a very personal non-professional opinion. What about you take several breath, maybe a walk, one kilo or half a kilo, and return here when you're ok? And then, read? Or DYOR with "turnkey sportsbook" keyword.

[Rating Place]

You're obsessed. You are always throwing out personal insults looking for an argument. If a case is over, just move on. I'll get proof of your statements and mine above when I have time.


This sums you up.



Most morally corrupt person on the forum. Bumped poster Rollinsweet (10 merits, 47 posts) to DT so negative trust would show on my account. Tried to trick me in to agreeing to a bet in which he silently changed the terms. He said that I took the bait. I never agreed to any bet. It's insane to think people are going to post up $1.5 million. holy then said he would open a flag if I didn't post up. What he's doing in scam accusations should be criminal. Winnings and sometimes deposits are confiscated for value (good bets) and arbitrage (with no proof) from warning flags.

[holydarkness]

You're obsessed. You are always throwing out personal insults looking for an argument. If a case is over, just move on. I'll get proof of your statements and mine above when I have time.


This sums you up.



Most morally corrupt person on the forum. Bumped poster Rollinsweet (10 merits, 47 posts) to DT so negative trust would show on my account. Tried to trick me in to agreeing to a bet in which he silently changed the terms. He said that I took the bait. I never agreed to any bet. It's insane to think people are going to post up $1.5 million. holy then said he would open a flag if I didn't post up. What he's doing in scam accusations should be criminal. Winnings and sometimes deposits are confiscated for value (good bets) and arbitrage (with no proof) from warning flags.

The sad thing is, despite your paranoia and perception of me, I am really serious with the very last paragraph of my post. I am really concerned with your current well-being. Human to human. And the biggest irony is, I don't think you'll even consider this as a sincere thought.

Of which, I think the best approach I can do is to not engage with you for about one week, in order to not provoke you further.

Feel free to post what you want to write here, I will rescind that self-moderation setup to keep things focused, for one whole week. I will not delete your OOT post, but I will also not respond to it, nor engaging with you in any other thread. Please use the time wisely to reset yourself.

After one week, we'll return to the original setup.

[Rating Place]

You're obsessed. You are always throwing out personal insults looking for an argument. If a case is over, just move on. I'll get proof of your statements and mine above when I have time.


This sums you up.



Most morally corrupt person on the forum. Bumped poster Rollinsweet (10 merits, 47 posts) to DT so negative trust would show on my account. Tried to trick me in to agreeing to a bet in which he silently changed the terms. He said that I took the bait. I never agreed to any bet. It's insane to think people are going to post up $1.5 million. holy then said he would open a flag if I didn't post up. What he's doing in scam accusations should be criminal. Winnings and sometimes deposits are confiscated for value (good bets) and arbitrage (with no proof) from warning flags.

The sad thing is, despite your paranoia and perception of me, I am really serious with the very last paragraph of my post. I am really concerned with your current well-being. Human to human. And the biggest irony is, I don't think you'll even consider this as a sincere thought.

Of which, I think the best approach I can do is to not engage with you for about one week, in order to not provoke you further.

Feel free to post what you want to write here, I will rescind that self-moderation setup to keep things focused, for one whole week. I will not delete your OOT post, but I will also not respond to it, nor engaging with you in any other thread. Please use the time wisely to reset yourself.



After one week, we'll return to the original setup.

Thanks for not engaging. I take the bait and reply.

Just talk facts. The insults are tiresome.

1. You offered me a bet.

2. I never agreed to the bet.

3. You changed the terms of the bet and said it was binding.

I don't trust you.

When you backed out of arbitration, it's the same as ruling for the book.

[nutildah]

Feel free to post what you want to write here, I will rescind that self-moderation setup to keep things focused, for one whole week. I will not delete your OOT post, but I will also not respond to it, nor engaging with you in any other thread. Please use the time wisely to reset yourself.

Honestly you've been remarkably patient with him and tried your hardest to present things in a reasonable fashion. This guy has cemented his reputation for making shit up and lying, as these qualities are on full display here. It can be seen from simply reading RP's posts in this thread.

He's quickly becoming the new game-protect. So ask yourself how would you deal with that type of behavior? Mocking it, ignoring it, or reporting it seem to be the 3 best options.

TL;DR: there's nothing left for anyone to prove here.

[Rating Place]

Feel free to post what you want to write here, I will rescind that self-moderation setup to keep things focused, for one whole week. I will not delete your OOT post, but I will also not respond to it, nor engaging with you in any other thread. Please use the time wisely to reset yourself.

Honestly you've been remarkably patient with him and tried your hardest to present things in a reasonable fashion. This guy has cemented his reputation for making shit up and lying, as these qualities are on full display here. It can be seen from simply reading RP's posts in this thread.

He's quickly becoming the new game-protect. So ask yourself how would you deal with that type of behavior? Mocking it, ignoring it, or reporting it seem to be the 3 best options.

TL;DR: there's nothing left for anyone to prove here.

Except I get people paid and don't charge. You're a troll, trust abuser, and according to the below a liar..

[Rating Place]

When a turnkey provider flags a player for "value play," they are notifying the sportsbook operator that the player is consistently identifying and betting on odds that are priced incorrectly, representing a long-term risk to the house’s profit margins.
The decision-making process for payouts in this scenario follows a specific hierarchy:
1. The Settlement Decision (The Provider)
The provider’s role is to determine if the bet itself is valid based on the event outcome.
• Automatic Payout: If the game ends and the bet wins, the provider’s software automatically settles the bet as a "win" and credits the player's account balance.
• The Exception: If the "value" was actually a technical error (e.g., a "palpable error" where odds were inverted or a decimal was misplaced), the provider will flag it and often recommend the bet be voided, meaning the stake is returned but winnings are not paid.
2. The Cashier Decision (The Operator)
Once winnings are in the account, the operator (the brand name) has the final authority over the actual money and the player relationship.
• The Power to Pay: The provider provides the data and the flag, but the operator's internal risk team makes the final call on whether to approve a withdrawal.
• Account Actions: If the provider identifies a "value bettor," the operator will often pay out the current winnings to avoid legal or PR issues but will simultaneously "limit" or "guts" the account (restricting the player to very small maximum bet amounts in the future).
3. The Final Authority (The Regulator)
Ultimately, an operator cannot refuse to pay a winner simply because the player is "too smart."
• Legality of Skill: In most regulated jurisdictions, finding "value" is considered part of the game. Unless the operator can prove a violation of the rules (like fraud or collusion), they are generally legally required to pay for bets they accepted.
• The Dispute Process: If an operator refuses to release funds based solely on a player being a "value bettor," the player can escalate the issue to the governing Gaming Commission. Regulators often rule in favor of the player if the operator simply failed to price their odds correctly.
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Yes, several other major companies provide turnkey solutions. While Kambi and Betby are two of the most prominent, the industry has several other "heavyweights" that offer similar "business-in-a-box" technology.
These providers are typically categorized by their "odds-making" style and the level of control they give the operator.
Major Turnkey & Odds Providers
• Sportradar (MTS/Oren): Originally a data company, they now offer a full platform called Oren. They are known for having the most extensive live data in the world. Their "Managed Trading Services" (MTS) handles all the odds and risk management for the operator.
• Genius Sports: Like Sportradar, they are a data giant that has moved into the platform space. They are the official data partner for the NFL, making them a top choice for sportsbooks that focus heavily on American football.
• OpenBet: This is the "heavy artillery" of the industry. They power some of the largest sportsbooks in the world (like DraftKings and FanDuel in various markets). They are built for massive scale—handling millions of bets simultaneously during events like the Super Bowl.
• EveryMatrix (OddsMatrix): They offer a highly modular "turnkey" system. An operator can take their entire package or just pick certain "modules," like their odds feed or their bonus system.
• BetConstruct: Known for having one of the widest varieties of sports and markets globally. They offer a very fast setup time and include "niche" markets like virtual sports and esports as part of their standard turnkey package.
• SOFTSWISS: A popular choice for operators who want a "modern" feel. They were among the first to fully integrate cryptocurrency betting into a professional turnkey sportsbook platform.
• Altenar: Often described as a "boutique" provider. They focus on being very flexible and "mobile-first," making them popular for operators in markets where most betting happens on smartphones rather than desktops.