You Must Be This Tall To Ride - New Girl Question

[serenitys]

So I've registered with Coinbase and purchased a buck just to learn and I'm seriously hoping that I'm not supposed to be stuck waiting a whole 30 days before I can do anything else because WTF. I AM having to wait 4 days on the buck to show up. Are all these other places the same or is there one that lets me sign up and START without this delay crap?

I thought this was an option for PRIVATE P2P transactions...not being stuck waiting a month to even jump in.

I'm willing and motivated to put in some new money to just ride the rides here but not sure what this roadblock entails or how long it'll keep me stuck. That may be the reality for plenty more new ones than just me...and the big buy starts at the end of April since we're all stuck in the bull pen.


(I totally don't know if that's the right context when market investors refer to a bull pen but it was an intuitive guess based on reading all this stuff and it makes sense so I'm going with it! If it is what they mean, then yay my crash course is paying off)

Next up, I'm under the impression that it's best to use coinbase to get the money INTO bitcoin, but then use other exchanges to trade. If this is the best strategy, please advise on the more secure, trusted ones that are being used by 99% of everyone here who is seriously trading so I don't fall victim to n00b knowledge and end up forking money into something that Goxes me into bankruptcy.

This is one of the delicate questions and my motivation isn't being nosey, it's trying to understand what kind of money people are actually playing with. I don't know yet what my ultimate buy in or quantity will be, but for the sake of ease, if I bought in right this minute at $450 and have 1 BTC, and at the end of the month it jumped in value/price to $900, did I just double my money? As in if I cashed right back out, I'd have an extra $450?

Or, if I bought in at $100 and the value/price of $450 doubles, would that mean my $100 is worth $200?

I need this sort of thing clarified, seriously  

Are you guys buying and trading "whole" btc or just portions?

On the day trading, same question - are you buying whole btc or just playing with a hundred bucks (or larger quantities), and just making 50 bucks a day off a buy/sell transaction as the price bounces up and down? So, for example, you're just doing this same kind of micro transaction every day or so as the price changes - 50 here, 100 there, 25 later, etc and accruing an income this way? Or do I not understand "day trading"? If not, please clarify.

I'm NOT asking how much you have or what you're worth. I'm trying to understand the sort of money people are actually using real time, in that context. I'm reading a lot of info on trading but nobody's being specific about HOW to go about it, just THAT they're doing it. I have no clue how to jump in and learn and I'm still in the dark. I don't want to be the one buying whole BTC and "trading" whole when everyone is just using portions and gasping at my cluelessness. I need to better understand the specifics and everywhere I've read or watched trying to understand, it's always people talking about THAT they're doing it but not HOW they're doing it - not the analysis part but the procedural stuff and shorting and long and how that works proceedurally.


What is meant by the "point spread" (and no I don't do sports) - like the stock is up 4 points or down 2 points - what does any of that mean?


Finally, wisdom from those who take this seriously and outside the scope of fear mongering and zealous hyping - what is a reasonable price range to buy into from the start? You're all working with old money. I'm buying a ticket to ride for the first time. Based on where it is now (450ish), is this a reasonable place to just get in the game, should it be a whole btc (as in is that what most traders do, buy whole btc and trade that) - or what's the high cap before I should wait for another crash to lower prices because I'm not ever buying in at max value

Thanks!

[gentlemand]

Coinbase is your safest option but lots of people moan about it. You'll be able to obtain BTC on localbitcoins.com nearly instantly but expect to pay a premium for that. I'm sure there are other options out there too.

I'm not sure any exchange is 100% dependable but the biggest is Bitstamp. Their verification can take a while. Kraken.com gets very good reviews and they're committed to being transparent. Volume is pretty thin there in comparison.

BTC-e is the other biggie. No one knows who runs it so that might not put your mind at ease.

Are you absolutely sure you want to day trade? It's an extremely rapid way to throw your investment down the toilet.

There's a lot people posting fancy graphs out there. I really don't know how many of them manage to succeed in making money considering the amount of time and effort expended. You'd probably do better using that time for another job and buying BTC for the long haul.

There are others who can tell you more about trading. The majority seem to keep their stash in cold storage and have a small percentage for active trading. Many only trade fractions of BTC.

This sub http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/ is dedicated to trading. You might learn some more there.

[gentlemand]

This may come in handy too if you haven't read it - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126798.0

[Flashman]

Whole coins or fractions it doesn't matter, if the market goes up 30% you get 130% of what you put in.

I'm actively trading only about a third of my BTC the rest is in the sack of hodling. (hodl being funny/ironic slang for holding)

I am using BTCe and vircurex at the moment (link at right of sig) BTCe mainly and vircurex for arbitrage opportunities (When there's a price difference between exchanges)

If relying on short term moves to make money, you need to be on a higher volume exchange because the lower volume ones may not track the price changes, i.e. BTC might zoom up to 600 from 450 in an afternoon and drop back down to 500, and the lower volume exchange processes very few transactions and it just moves up lazily from 450 to 500.

I don't "day trade" per se, in that I rely on making anything daily, there's quite a large "information gap" for small traders on what is actually going on and the so called "whales" or big holders can manipulate the market. In other words, the small fish can get eaten. I tend to trade on slightly longer term trends of a couple of days or weeks, looking to make 10-15% at a time... it's a bit more predictable and reliable I think, above the level of the day trade "noise".

Good luck,

Flash

edit: useful sites, bitcoinwisdom.com cryptocoincharts.info

[BurtW]

Don't forget https://www.bitfinex.com they offer trading on margin.

[serenitys]

Thanks for the info.

I'll be reading all these suggestions shortly.

Just for clarification, when you or anyone mention getting eaten or losing, in what context? My understanding is that your BTC doesn't go away if the value drops, just the worth but if it'll shoot back up at some point to whatever, your value goes up too. Is that incorrect? What is being lost - the actual BTC or the value per fluctuation?

I put in $100, the price/value drops to $2, then I lost $98 value and just have a two dollar BTC then, right?

Or is it more like poker, where I "bid" or "bet" my 2 BTC (worth 450ea = 900) that the value will go up. If it goes down instead, my 2 BTC are deducted and taken, like when the dealer slides your chips out of your pile and you don't have those 2 BTC anymore.

If it's A, I'm in obviously because I recognize the staying power of bitcoin so the fluctuation part doesn't matter...what goes up...

If it's B, like poker, screw that 

I hate that many of my questions might make me sound like a dumbass but I'm not...I know standard context for many of these terms but need to be sure they don't mean something entirely different with regard to marketing. Like - theory means one thing in science and something else entirely to the superstitious or uneducated.

Resistance, support, holding, short, side out, this kind of stuff I have no idea what any of that means or what yall are talking about or in what situations it's good or bad...so where to I learn?

I'm new to markets and investing, and to bitcoin. I'm not about to jump in day trading because I don't know what all it entails or if I want to. I AM serious about learning what I can about it to then make a more informed decision, so lots of these questions are because I have nowhere else to go to ask when I'm curious about stuff or want more info or clarification - from reading all yall's conversations across the whole forum.

And I don't have a mentor so...


This one I do need to know before I buy in at all -

If the market price is $500 and I click BUY, regardless of however long it takes, is it locked in or will the exchange bump the price up or down depending on what the value/price is when they finally get around to it. That is raised because of people talking about bids and fills...so it makes me think that you just put up a notice you want to buy when it's 500 and if they get around to yours while it's 500 you can buy btc. and they fill your order...but if the price jumps before they make it around to your notice, you're just SOL which, of course, sounds like bullshit to me and why anyone would do that who knows. It's like going to the store to buy cupcakes on sale but by the time you get to the register, they cancel the sale and you pay some other price - only because THEY didn't get to your order in time, instead of honoring all requests at that price as they're made.

Like I said...trying to learn  

[serenitys]

And FWIW, I've been on the internet since 1995 (in many cases consistently   ) and had fun on a lot of forums. The three most entertaining forums I've ever been obsessed over had been the Harper's Island social forum (Barmaid for any old HI fans) and unfiction because I'm all about the ARG and transmedia gaming...but the one that locked me down to obsession was the forum dedicated to the WM3...I went balls out on that and literally surpassed 1000 posts in less than a month  

That's not happened til I found this one and I see it coming.

I joined this forum a day after discovering it...and have literally been logged in this entire time. I have not slept. I've just napped. I am enthralled by this forum, excited about crypto currency, and absorbing every word.

I LOVE reading yalls arguing and debating back and forth, the trolling, the community here is insanely cool imo. (Though I didn't necessarily enjoy a 5000 page thread being marred by 20 pages about jesus or the one where astrology and magic happened...that was kinda bs)...

So thanks and when I ask something please know I'm serious and extraordinarily grateful for even one person bothering to just throw me a bone.

[Flashman]

Yes, you rarely "lose it all" but buying in high and panic selling on the drop a few times will cut your stake rapidly. Generally, if you get "stuck" in a higher market cap coin, due to unforseen rapid decline in value, due to some developer argument or network problem it will generally pass in time and you can hold those coins until the value is more reasonable again.

Resistance/support, is much the same thing, it's about how many willing buyers or sellers there appear to be at given price levels. i.e. the market is going down but there appear to be a lot of buyers at 400, then we say it's got support, if the market is going up but there are a lot of sellers art 500, then we say there's resistance.

Generally, when you have funds confirmed on a normal exchange, buying at the "sell" price should be instant, if the market is not rising so rapidly that you miss it... in which case it will usually create an "order" to buy at that price which will fill next time he price dips to that.

coinbase however is a bit different, I don't use it, I believe it gets quicker when you've done a few buys and have registered and confirmed info with them, but it's still not good for trading, so much as getting your stake money in.

[Peter882]

+1 for localbitcoins.
You don't need to do any verification, and you can find some cash trades near you.

[serenitys]

So, if I go to coinbase and buy 1 btc at whatever price it shows, eg $500, is that what they will deduct from my bank acct (with fees, etc) even if they get around to it 2 days later? Or will they hit my bank balance for whatever it is 2 days, when they get to the actual processing of MY order?

Like I buy 1 at $500, meaning I hit the BUY button that authorizes my order for 1 btc at $500, is that what they'll actually take out whenever they process or will they take out whatever the value is at the time they get around to it. Like I ORDER 1 at $500 as the price shown. They don't engage the transfer from my bank until 2 days later...but two days later the price of BTC has increased to $900.

Are they removing 500 from my account or 900?

That's what I'm trying to understand...

Thanks for the explanation

[Aahzman]

The amount of bitcoin you receive from an exchange will be based on the value at the time you commit your order.

The exchange/seller cannot ding your bank account for more fiat (ie gov't issued currencies) than what you contracted for.

So, if (for example) 1BTC is valued at $500USD, and you commit a purchase order for $250USD, you would receive 0.5BTC. Now, regardless of how long it takes the exchange to complete your order, as long as you got your payment to them within a certain time (varies by exchange), your order will be processed at the exchange rate at the time you clicked "Buy".

Now, suppose it takes JoeBitcoinSeller 4 days to process your order, and the value of bitcoin rises to $1000USD. The seller should still send you 0.5BTC, based on the value at the time you clicked "buy" to confirm your order.  only now, your $250 investment is now worth $500. 

Suppose it takes the seller 4 days to process your order and the value of bitcoin drops to $250USD per 1BTC? Well, you STILL receive that 0.5BTC based on the value at the time you placed your order, but unfortunately that 0.5BTC is now only worth $125USD.

BTC is a volatile beast, and following the roller-coaster during disruptive times can be nerve-wracking.  It doesn't take much to influence the value of BTC. An exchange in India closes or goes bankrupt, people get panicky. Some start selling everything they have before the price tanks, while others take advantage of panic selling to buy and make a profit..  A new exchange opens, and people regain some confidence, and some people start trying to buy all they can get, before the price leaps up, while others take advantage of panic buying to make profit.

[vipgelsi]

You can't beat coinbase.

[serenitys]

Awesome, thanks for clearing it up.

I went back and saw the limitations section and saw the line about waiting 30 days - under level 2, and wasn't sure if I had to wait 4 days from one transaction to the next, or how they took it out and I needed to be sure so I didn't BUY 1 btc for 400 something and 4 days later I'm negative because BTC value went back to 1000.


Still wish it'd go down another couple hundred. I'd like to get one BTC for several people I know just so they can see it fluctuate over time, but not turn loose of the key until a year from now (or willed if I die meanwhile).

I think this is a phenomenal way to make an investment for my children though.

Anyway, thanks for helping me understand

[cookiemonsterwhat]

Personally, I think local bitcoins is worth the premium. Sometimes I hear people are ripped by the price points they bought at coinbase cause they supposedly didnt have any? Which sounds absurd, but there was a reddit link awhile back about it.