How should newbies vote in DT1 selection with empty trust list?

[Comeacross]

Sorry if my title is not accurate. I don't know if this is the right place for this post too.

I was going through one thread yesterday and I came across theymos post on how DT1 works and this part got me thinking about how the trust system actually works for majority of forum members.

- You can affect how DT1 is constructed by adding names to your trust list. Your trust list is empty, so you are failing to vote here at all.

Theymos also said he doesn't make manual edits to DT1 unless someone abuses the selection process. Otherwise, he expects us to sort it out with the person that made the rating if there is any issue, complian to people that trusted that user, convince people to distrust them or build our own trust list.

Now my questions:

For low rank members with empty trust lists, what's the best way to participate in the voting without making mistakes?

If we add random DT1 members to our list, we are just copying vote blindly. Isn't it better to leave it empty then to add random users? Is doing that consider failing to vote?

And what does voting actually look like for a regular member?

I would really like to read a proper guide for building a trust list responsibly. Most of us don't touch trust settings at all. We only care about it when we see it on our profile.

Note: I'm not complaining about any specific rating. I just want to understand how a regular member can participate in DT1 construction the right way instead of leaving it empty.

[bitmover]

For low rank members with empty trust lists, what's the best way to participate in the voting without making mistakes?

If we add random DT1 members to our list, we are just copying vote blindly. Isn't it better to leave it empty then to add random users? Is doing that consider failing to vote?

And what does voting actually look like for a regular member?

I would really like to read a proper guide for building a trust list responsibly. Most of us don't touch trust settings at all. We only care about it when we see it on our profile.

Note: I'm not complaining about any specific rating. I just want to understand how a regular member can participate in DT1 construction the right way instead of leaving it empty.

You need to know people to add them to your trust list.

If you are a newbie, you don't know anyone, creating a list makes no sense.

Once you trust some user judgment, add them to your trust list.

Don't rush, add only people you think are honest and  you can trust their judgment.

Most of D1 members have more than 6-7 years in the forum, others more than a decade. You will know people over time.

[lovesmayfamilis]

I would really like to read a proper guide for building a trust list responsibly. Most of us don't touch trust settings at all. We only care about it when we see it on our profile.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5191802.0

[Zaguru12]

Now my questions:

For low rank members with empty trust lists, what's the best way to participate in the voting without making mistakes?

If we add random DT1 members to our list, we are just copying vote blindly. Isn't it better to leave it empty then to add random users? Is doing that consider failing to vote?

I think what you seriously need to understand is that you’re not voting with your trust list, your trust list is helping Theymos to select the best members which their judgement is actually trusted by many. That’s why they are rules for them to been included, including the number of merits those trusting them has earned and also how many members trusting them too.

Your trust lists shouldn’t be of members that you want them to be on the DT1 but it should be base on how you value the users judgement on others, I will take it from LoyceV advice it shouldn’t even be about someone you trusted with money or have traded with, but the user overall judgement towards others

[Cookdata]

Now my questions:

For low rank members with empty trust lists, what's the best way to participate in the voting without making mistakes?

You don't need to know anybody to build your trustlist. In fact, the purpose of your trustlist isn't about people you know, it is basically about people that you trust their judgement. If you trust my judgement on how I handle trust feedback, you can include me, and if you don't trust my judgement, you can exclude me. That is how your trust list should be built, and not because you know somebody to be Legendary or some rank. You can add a junior member if you trust their judgement.

And what does voting actually look like for a regular member?

LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system  

Please read this guide.

[LoyceV]

LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system  

That sums it up
Newbies shouldn't really be concerned with DT1. If you want to create your own Trust list, add users who left good accurate feedback and have a good Trust list. DT1 voting follows from that once you have earned enough Merit. Further reading: theymos' topic.

[NotATether]

When you are a newbie your focus should NOT be on selecting DT1.

You are new here - your task is to participate in the forum and interact with people, ask questions and answers, and be useful to the community.

And then when your rank is sufficiently high, then you can vote for DT if you still care about those things.

Edit: LoyceV you AI, you beat me to this by a minute 

[Catenaccio]

If we add random DT1 members to our list, we are just copying vote blindly. Isn't it better to leave it empty then to add random users? Is doing that consider failing to vote?

You trust someone not because of the name, not because of someone else trusted that user and certainly not because that user is a DT1 member.

Adding someone to your trust list must come from a fact that you trust the user, it's your first and most important reason to add a username into your trust list. The other reason to vote in DT1 selection comes far after that reason.

But if you want to see most voted DT1 members, you can get information from DT1-strength of 287 users in 310 weeks (weekly updates).

[LFC_Bitcoin]

As a newbie you should just go with Default Trust settings. You don’t know anybody enough to form an opinion on who can be trusted and who can’t.

Obviously as a newbie, your input is very low on DT and doesn’t count for much but as you become more reputable over the years, your selections may become important so it’s not important to start rushing to make custom trust lists just yet.

[Hyphen(-)]

For low rank members with empty trust lists, what's the best way to participate in the voting without making mistakes?

If we add random DT1 members to our list, we are just copying vote blindly. Isn't it better to leave it empty then to add random users? Is doing that consider failing to vote?

And what does voting actually look like for a regular member?

As a newbie, I don’t think we have any issue related to DT, but if you really want to learn about the entire DT and how it works, you can go through the links being provided to you in this thread by several members.

Newbies don’t vote for DTs, and trust system is not working based on voting. You earn trust if you are trustworthy in the forum, you don’t need to know anyone to add you to their trust list, you will earn it once you are well recognized in the form what the good contributions you give in the forum.
You can add any member you trust in your trust list, it just mustn’t be the same user with what others have added, everyone have the right to build their trust list.

[MarryWithBTC]

Now my questions:

For low rank members with empty trust lists, what's the best way to participate in the voting without making mistakes?

If we add random DT1 members to our list, we are just copying vote blindly. Isn't it better to leave it empty then to add random users? Is doing that consider failing to vote?

Just to add, incase you misunderstood it. It is not only DT1 members that you need to add to your trust list. If you read the Loycev's guide, you'll understand properly. You add to your trust list anyone you know that sends good feedback and does not abuse trust even if the person is not a DT member.

The idea is to preserve and sanitize the forum and not to elect powerful men like our political system.  

[Mia Chloe]

~snip

First off, understand that building your trust list might not be necessary as a newbie and I'll highlight the reasons why. Well to start with I recently just started growing my trust network and that's mostly because I've been around relatively long. You don't just add up people because others added them though it can be feasible in some cases.

You should build your trust network based off people you think you can literally trust and you can majorly be able to achieve that by sticking around longer which is a major factors newbies don't have yet.

[hosemary]

trust system is not working based on voting.

It does.

DT1 members vote for other members by trusting their judgements and vote against them by distrusting their judgements.
Votes determine DT2 members and can even remove a DT1 member from default trust list.

[Comeacross]

You need to know people to add them to your trust list.

You don't need to know anybody to build your trustlist.

Is there anything I'm missing here? Can you both elaborate more please because I feel confused with these two statements.

Thank you all for taking time to explain. I get things clearly now. As a newbie, you're fine with just default trust without bothering yourself about customising your own trust list. The trust system is more concerned with established members.

[Audrey Simmons]

Is there anything I'm missing here? Can you both elaborate more please because I feel confused with these two statements.

Thank you all for taking time to explain. I get things clearly now. As a newbie, you're fine with just default trust without bothering yourself about customising your own trust list. The trust system is more concerned with established members.

You need to know people to add them to your trust list, it doesn't need to be privately but from public display of character in the forum.

You're not okay with default trust if you can customize your trust list, these are things regular forum users should have and use.

[TypoTonic]

For low rank members with empty trust lists, what's the best way to participate in the voting without making mistakes?

If we add random DT1 members to our list, we are just copying vote blindly. Isn't it better to leave it empty then to add random users? Is doing that consider failing to vote?

There's a feature to set initial trust, which I assume is quite old and forgotten (it still says "trust score", even though it was already removed in 2019 ). If you really want to customize your trust list now, I think it's worth checking out the suggested users there.

I think what you seriously need to understand is that you’re not voting with your trust list, your trust list is helping Theymos to select the best members which their judgement is actually trusted by many.

You are voting with your trust list, but your votes are limited. Also, the admin does not select only "the best members".

-snip- the goal is not to constantly select the "top 50 forum users" or similar, but to select a wide swath of users who are basically acceptable.

[theymos]

You are voting with your trust list

Right. In basic terms, DT1 is constructed in this way:
 1. Users who meet the basic requirements become DT1 candidates. There are 257 such candidates currently.
 2. DT1 candidates who receive enough votes (by being on trust lists) advance to become potential DT1 members. There are about 103 such members currently.
 3. 100 potential DT1 members are randomly selected each month to be that month's DT1.

In order for your votes to count in step 2, you need 10 earned merit, you must not be banned, and you must have received merit from at least 4 different users for posts you made in the last 4 years. So newbies won't be able to vote, but most Member+ ranked members can.

I definitely do recommend removing DefaultTrust from your trust list and constructing your own, as soon as you feel comfortable doing so. That's how the system was originally intended to function. A good starting point for this would be to pick 10-20 users from the current DT1, or from the larger list of all DT1 candidates. The system works differently when you replace DefaultTrust with your own custom list because you end up searching the trust graph 1 layer deeper; this means that you only need 10-20 active users on your trust list to get decent results, not the ~100 on DT1. It'd be a pretty good strategy to just pick some users who you have good feelings about without worrying about being perfect, and then later on make adjustments when you see people with accurate but untrusted ratings (add them to your trust list), or you see people with inaccurate but trusted ratings (~distrust them and/or whoever in your trust list trusted them).

[Findingnemo]

~
Note: I'm not complaining about any specific rating. I just want to understand how a regular member can participate in DT1 construction the right way instead of leaving it empty.

You are just making someone eligible with your trust inclusion, so someone will be participating in the selection process, not you. And someone else has to add you to their trust list if you want to be DT1.

And if you really don't know how it works then the best thing is to just leave it as it is.

[rat03gopoh]

I definitely do recommend removing DefaultTrust from your trust list and constructing your own, as soon as you feel comfortable doing so.

If I recall, DefaultTrust was even automatically added to my list when I was a newbie. If DefaultTrust is listed by most forum members, removing it has a drawback of not being able to see my own feedback scores as other members see, I experienced it for a few months without realizing it (before I added it back recently).bta.lk/t/5583028.msg66731539#msg66731539

[bitmover]

You need to know people to add them to your trust list.

You don't need to know anybody to build your trustlist.

Is there anything I'm missing here? Can you both elaborate more please because I feel confused with these two statements.

Thank you all for taking time to explain. I get things clearly now. As a newbie, you're fine with just default trust without bothering yourself about customising your own trust list. The trust system is more concerned with established members.

Ofc you don't really have to know people to add them to your trust list.

You can just add random people to it.  Or copy someone else's trust list

The list is yours. Do as you think works best for you.

I add only people that I know and trust.