When will Tap-to-Pay (Apple/Google Pay) natively support crypto?

[eduardoaz]

Hi everyone, when do you think we will see true native crypto tap-to-pay? Right now if you use Apple Pay or Google Pay with crypto you are usually relying on a middleman like a crypto debit card provider that converts your crypto to fiat instantly behind the scenes. I mean actual native integration where Apple or Google wallets directly broadcast a stablecoin or layer 2 transaction straight to a merchant wallet at the terminal without any fiat bridge. Are we looking at 2028, 2030, or even later?

Do you think pure crypto networks can ever completely substitute the Visa and Mastercard duopoly for daily retail? If you think it's possible, what is your realistic timeline? If not, what are the primary roadblocks holding it back? In my view the biggest challenges we need to solve first are scalability and finality, because layer 2s or 3s need to consistently handle Visa level throughput globally without dropping seconds off checkout times. There is also the huge UX gap since reversing transactions or dealing with fraud protection through chargebacks doesn't naturally exist in immutable crypto. Finally there is the regulation and legacy pushback given the absolute grip the current duopoly has on bank integrations and merchant terminal hardware.

What are your thoughts? Is a direct crypto replacement of traditional payment rails an inevitability, or are we destined to just be an asset layer hidden inside Visa's nad Mastercard backend forever?

[joniboini]

In my country? Probably decades. Not sure I'll ever see one until I'm much older at least. My government is quite strict with limiting options for payments, especially with how bad the national economy is right now. I can't see it improving significantly anytime soon, to the point where they can comfortably let crypto enter the market for payments. Maybe if the forex pair isn't too bad we'll have another discussion.

Then again, other merchants (overseas) already accepts crypto even without Apple/Google Pay. I don't think I really need them either.

[Fortify]

Whether we like it or not, crypto might still be considered fringe by Apple and Google which are the two companies needed to progress this sort of integration. There are relatively few big companies who they would trust as a partner in this field, with maybe Coinbase (as it's a US stock market listed company) being acceptable enough. Then it will come down to whether it makes financial sense, because they will have agreements with the current payment processors and be able to take a known commission from each transaction to facilitate it in their wallets. If crypto is too variable on unmanageable then they simply won't be interested in taking control, it all requires the professor to act as a middleman and settle the conversion into a currency instantly, which also comes with risks to one of the parties and they'll probably want fair compensation for that.

[Joy_learns_crypto]

Whether we like it or not, crypto might still be considered fringe by Apple and Google which are the two companies needed to progress this sort of integration. There are relatively few big companies who they would trust as a partner in this field, with maybe Coinbase (as it's a US stock market listed company) being acceptable enough. Then it will come down to whether it makes financial sense, because they will have agreements with the current payment processors and be able to take a known commission from each transaction to facilitate it in their wallets. If crypto is too variable on unmanageable then they simply won't be interested in taking control, it all requires the professor to act as a middleman and settle the conversion into a currency instantly, which also comes with risks to one of the parties and they'll probably want fair compensation for that.

Apple and Google do not consider Cryptocurrency as fringe they are barricaded by how decentralized cryptocurrency is, many of this giant Companies don’t want any infringement that they could be flagged for because cryptocurrency is banned in so places but not in others and in those places cryptocurrency aren’t banned cryptocurrency isn’t controlled by the government like fiat where if there is an issue government can step in to immediately freeze accounts or take other actions.

[knowngunman]

What are your thoughts? Is a direct crypto replacement of traditional payment rails an inevitability, or are we destined to just be an asset layer hidden inside Visa's nad Mastercard backend forever?

From now to 2030 is not realistic in my opinion based on present realities. It might be possible in the future (beyond 2030 definitely) but let be realistic, even if we see that happening, crypto can not completely eliminate mastercard/visa duopoly.

Unless a lot of things changed about regulations and compliance, I see no way this dream can be achieved quickly as we expect. The issue of global acceptance is also a setback but of course, it can work in a layered system working together. But total replacement is a demand that can not be quickly or never get granted.

[pawanjain]

Tap to pay already exists for fiat and it won't be that hard to integrate it with crypto.
But everything is not needed to be modernized. Tap to pay is a good feature to have but with crypto, where we are our own bank, its in our best interest not have it.
The reason is quite simple. Some people will find ways through it to get access to our funds and exploit it.
We can ofcourse create separate wallets to minimize the losses but I believe QR scanning is still a pretty good feature for micro payments.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Apple and Google have zero incentive to bypass Visa and Mastercard when the card rails already work and the regulatory cover is built in.

For point of sale, these payment methods offer convenience and are widely accepted everywhere. It's difficult for me to imagine the world switching to stablecoins. Maybe these fiat bridges might accept it, if they foresee demand, but in general, no, I don't think we're seeing crypto tap-to-pay anytime soon.

[MadSl1m]

BlackHatCoiner's point about no incentive is right, but there's a more basic blocker underneath it. Apple Pay and Google Pay just tokenize a card number over NFC, they don't broadcast transactions, so a 'native' crypto tap would need an entirely new scheme the merchant's terminal can't read. And the merchant end is the real wall: their POS only settles through Visa/MC and they want fiat anyway. So the card provider converting in the background isn't a placeholder for the native version, it pretty much is the integration.

[bitgolden]

There are already apps that allows this. You may not be aware, and I am not going to name any of them because it would be like shilling and I do not want to risk myself suggesting something that may turn out to be a scam.

But yeah, there are apps out there, at least for android (do not know about iphones and if they have it) where you download the app, you deposit bitcoin on it, and you tap to pay or scan a QR code to pay. This is not a new invention, it has existed for like 3-4 years now.

[Doll2233]

According to my point of view this crypto tap to pay is going to take a very long way the main issue is not the speed this stable coins and layer 2 networks are already settling payments faster for retail used in many cases the main and the real barrier is the customer protection or fraud handling there are cards like Visa and master cards they are not just payment rays but they also have the ability to handle any sort of dispute and liabilities.
Today's crypto payment have to go through different intermediaries  like crypto cards and these providers they simply convert crypto into flat at the background for the merchants they received euros/dollars and can stay inside the existing banking system, Google and Apple they have little impetus to replace that system directly, crypto will be absorbed into this existing system rather than replacing it and stable coins may become back end settlement layer where as Google pay and Apple pay they will stay the front-end interface.

[SUPERSAIAN]

Tap to pay already exists for fiat and it won't be that hard to integrate it with crypto.
But everything is not needed to be modernized. Tap to pay is a good feature to have but with crypto, where we are our own bank, its in our best interest not have it.
The reason is quite simple. Some people will find ways through it to get access to our funds and exploit it.
We can ofcourse create separate wallets to minimize the losses but I believe QR scanning is still a pretty good feature for micro payments.

Wallets can be created for micro-payments. Constantly making transfers and dividing wallets can be tiring for some people, but not for everyone. Some people will still continue to use their bank's automated payment system some habits are difficult to change. Crypto wallets can be a bit more cumbersome, especially for beginners. For those who are already familiar with the process, dividing wallets is a good option.

[LGD2Business]

I don't think that's going to happen because why would they offer that option when they're collecting their own fees? It would just cut into their revenue. Plus, they'd rather accept cash than a cryptocurrency they can't control. These are established institutions in a multi billion dollar industry. It's not that easy to shake up Visa and Mastercard's dominance.

We're looking at this from the consumer's perspective and think it would be a good thing. But from their perspective, it makes little sense. I don't think we'll see anything like this anytime soon.

[KiaKia]

It might never happen, if you want to use crypto to make payment on Google store you should find a platform that deals with crypto to Google gift card and use it to shop online.

I wouldn't even bother myself because most apps on these stores are free, it's only like once or twice I've ever use Google gift card to shop in the Playstore and I am sure that something similar is available for apple store too.

It's like I've seen few platforms and apps that support using crypto to make payment on these stores too but I can't remember their names anymore, you can look out for such apps by yourself.

[Oasisman]

Completely substituting Visa and Mastercard may not really possible, at least for the next 10-15 years. That's my realistic take.
The scalability and finality aren't just the challenges that crypto payments need to overcome, but it also needs user protection, which I think is very important for daily transactions.
In my honest opinion, we may be able to see direct wallet to wallet crypto payments in the near future, but I do expect that Visa and Mastercard are still there on the front end, because they have fraud protection, dispute resolution, and merchant support. These are the feature that's kind of hard to replace, especially for purely decentralized systems.

This has been discussed and said many times already, but I'm gonna say it again. Crypto will not "completely" replace the traditional payment system, but they can surely work together and adapt together. The future isn't about Crypto Vs. Visa, but a Crypto+Visa.

[viljy]

I don't see the need for direct cryptocurrency payments. It's just redundant. There are many options for converting to fiat and back, with minimal inconvenience. Then what are the advantages of direct cryptocurrency payments, especially since there is an unavoidable feature of cryptocurrency payments - irrevocability. That is, any error or consequences of fraud in the cryptocurrency system will require much more effort from the payment operator to fix. And it's not always possible. Stablecoins can be blocked, but native coins of the network cannot.

[noorman0]

-snip-
Then what are the advantages of direct cryptocurrency payments, especially since there is an unavoidable feature of cryptocurrency payments - irrevocability.

In reality, it won't reach the point where transactions will be entirely on-chain; they will retain the CeFi concept offered by some typical cards of CEXes. The challenges of integrating crypto payments can be quite complex, even Bitcoin using side chains, not to mention the trust issues surrounding altcoins.

[eduardoaz]

-snip-
Then what are the advantages of direct cryptocurrency payments, especially since there is an unavoidable feature of cryptocurrency payments - irrevocability.

In reality, it won't reach the point where transactions will be entirely on-chain; they will retain the CeFi concept offered by some typical cards of CEXes. The challenges of integrating crypto payments can be quite complex, even Bitcoin using side chains, not to mention the trust issues surrounding altcoins.

Appreciate the feedback, glad to see this thread getting some traction. A lot of you keep pointing out that merchants have zero incentive to leave the Visa/Mastercard ecosystem, but I think people are severely underestimating how much businesses absolutely despise interchange fees.
Take a giant like Amazon for example. They lose billions of dollars a year purely to credit card swipe fees. If a platform like Amazon could bypass legacy rails and natively accept a network like Solana, where the fee is a fraction of a cent regardless of whether the purchase is $100 or $1,000, the savings are astronomical. They would easily pass a portion of those savings down to the consumer (via discounts or cashback) just to incentivize people to pay with crypto and stop bleeding cash to banks.
And it's the exact same story for small businesses, just on a tighter margin. Right now, millions of small shops using standard POS terminals are getting absolutely crushed by 3%, 4%, or even 5% processing fees. Paying 3% on a tiny purchase is annoying, but 3% on a $1,000 item is $30 straight out of the merchant's pocket just for moving digits around. If these POS platforms integrate a flat-rate crypto rail—say, a flat 1-cent fee per transaction—small businesses would migrate in a heartbeat and actively push their customers toward it to save their business.
The incentive isn't just about the technology, it's purely about protecting the bottom line. Percentage-based fees on high-value transactions make no sense when a flat-fee blockchain rail can do the exact same job for pennies.

[viljy]

-snip-
Then what are the advantages of direct cryptocurrency payments, especially since there is an unavoidable feature of cryptocurrency payments - irrevocability.

In reality, it won't reach the point where transactions will be entirely on-chain; they will retain the CeFi concept offered by some typical cards of CEXes. The challenges of integrating crypto payments can be quite complex, even Bitcoin using side chains, not to mention the trust issues surrounding altcoins.

Appreciate the feedback, glad to see this thread getting some traction. A lot of you keep pointing out that merchants have zero incentive to leave the Visa/Mastercard ecosystem, but I think people are severely underestimating how much businesses absolutely despise interchange fees.
Take a giant like Amazon for example. They lose billions of dollars a year purely to credit card swipe fees. If a platform like Amazon could bypass legacy rails and natively accept a network like Solana, where the fee is a fraction of a cent regardless of whether the purchase is $100 or $1,000, the savings are astronomical. They would easily pass a portion of those savings down to the consumer (via discounts or cashback) just to incentivize people to pay with crypto and stop bleeding cash to banks.
And it's the exact same story for small businesses, just on a tighter margin. Right now, millions of small shops using standard POS terminals are getting absolutely crushed by 3%, 4%, or even 5% processing fees. Paying 3% on a tiny purchase is annoying, but 3% on a $1,000 item is $30 straight out of the merchant's pocket just for moving digits around. If these POS platforms integrate a flat-rate crypto rail—say, a flat 1-cent fee per transaction—small businesses would migrate in a heartbeat and actively push their customers toward it to save their business.
The incentive isn't just about the technology, it's purely about protecting the bottom line. Percentage-based fees on high-value transactions make no sense when a flat-fee blockchain rail can do the exact same job for pennies.

I don't consider the acquisition fee to be a problem, even for sellers. After all, they include these costs in the price of the goods! Acquiring is a boon for banks and buyers. Cashback on bank cards is paid to customers precisely because there is an acquisition fee. But let's say the sellers really don't like acquiring. An alternative is available for them - accepting payments using QR codes, which cost nothing for sellers. This payment system is already very widespread in many countries. So there is no need for direct cryptocurrency payments in general. On the contrary, potential problems may arise.

This is not to mention the legal problems with the status of cryptocurrencies in different jurisdictions. If you recognize the crypto as money (which is not even available in the United States, since cryptocurrency is a commodity there), then how do you account for income tax? At the exchange rate on what date? The tax system will get bogged down in such details that can be challenged in court. It only seems from the outside that cryptocurrency payments instead of fiat are easy and simple.