BRICS - problems and forecasts

[Dogedegen]

Imagine the collaboration between those countries
- Russia and China, collaboration on paper, in reality, each one fears the other, they try to bury the hatchet for propaganda reasons but still have territorial disputes scars that will never heal

I don't think this is a big argument on its own in the topic that we are talking about, many countries in the European Union have historical or current territorial disputes and yet they have managed to find a way to get past that and still work together in a strong way. It is not like all the countries in the European Union are big friends, yet they can still cooperate.

Yeah, except that in China they still have continuous propaganda about the century of humiliation and about their territorial disputes.
When was the last time you read in a German manual that Alsace is part of Germany?

This is called moving the goalpost of the argument. I never said that the border disputes are being treated equally or how the country sees those, I have just said that they do exist among the European countries and they are looking past those as much as possible. Anyway since these disputes are not in the interest, the centralized government in Brussels does all kinds of forceful tactics to suppress both the news but also the dispute themselves. You know the style they used Hungary, threatening to withhold money that you rightfully deserve if you don't obey our wishes. That is how they do it, just not all of the cases are widely reported as the situation with Hungary since they wanted to get rid of Orban. Anyway the point is that they are still somehow able to get past all of these issues and not that they don't exist, but BRICS is not able to do that at this time.

When was the last time you read in a German manual that Alsace is part of Germany?

History is used as a tool for manipulation.
Throughout a lot of societies.

That is true, a lot of the mainstream information that is being taught to most people is not fully accurate and sometimes even false. The best proof that one can get about this is when some big place like the EU or US teaches history about a place or events in which you actually were, then you can know quite well how huge the difference is between reality and what is told as history.

[stompix]

~

This is called moving the goalpost of the argument. I never said that the border disputes are being treated equally or how the country sees those, I have just said that they do exist among the European countries and they are looking past those as much as possible. 

Nope, it's not moving anything!
European countries don't have school manuals about whatever century of humiliation they had, since you mentioned Hungary, yes, they are bitter about the Treaty of Trianon, but you won't find caricatures of all the foreign powers splitting their country and indoctrinating their kids to take arms to revert this, you don't have active propaganda on Chinese state-sponsored levels.
Seriously, you're comparing countries that have open borders and have seen for the first time in their history half a century of no war and prosperity with a country that actively tries to regain control they lost since the Qing Empire everywhere, and if you think that a strong China smelling a weak Russia will not take all of Manciuria back the way Russia took Crimea, you're deluding yourself.

[el kaka22]

So from what I understand, people are mad over Russia wanting piece of Ukraine, and they are mad that China wants piece of Taiwan, and they are mad North Korea has always wanted South Korea, and India wants Pakistan. And these are all bad, right? That is what you guys are saying?

And of course, any normal human would say that, war is bad, death is bad, and everyone should be friendly and have fun, and go have barbeque parties together and we should love each other. But you are forgetting, Europe still has companies sucking resources out of Africa? Or USA killing innocent people in Iran? You think the west is any better? You think USA is out there trying to be friendly and the east is just this bad place? I am sorry but go back to real world, everyone has problems, not just BRICS.

[BlackHatCoiner]

De-dollarization sounds great on paper, but nobody actually wants to hold massive reserves of rupees or yuan that they can't easily spend globally. Until they build a proper institutional framework and resolve these deep internal rivalries, BRICS will remain a glorified talking shop.

Unless something ground-breaking happens and Bitcoin suddenly goes back to six digits again. 

[MRY]

De-dollarization sounds great on paper, but nobody actually wants to hold massive reserves of rupees or yuan that they can't easily spend globally. Until they build a proper institutional framework and resolve these deep internal rivalries, BRICS will remain a glorified talking shop.

Unless something ground-breaking happens and Bitcoin suddenly goes back to six digits again.  

The liquidity of other countries banknotes cannot make cross border transactions as liquid as the dollar at the moment. The problems between members are known to slow down the development of these economic alliances. In case Bitcoin reaches six curves or even higher and becomes highly more valuable than it was last time it hit the all time high, it might have a radical impact on the global financial situation. I believe that money will be a very interesting subject to look into in the future.

[davis196]

- Internal conflicts: There are political tensions between members (e.g., historical rivalry between China and India, disagreements over expanding the list of partner countries)
- Difficulties of de-dollarization: It is impossible to completely abandon the dollar, as economies are highly dependent on trade with the West and dominant world reserves. Settlement in national currencies (Rupees, Yuan, Real) is slow due to trade imbalances
- Different economic structure: The bloc includes states with very different levels of development, investment base and technological potential
- Lack of a single center: Unlike the European Union or the G7, BRICS does not have a rigid charter, a permanent secretariat, or its own supranational currency

1.The process of dedollarization is really slow and it takes time.
2.BRICS cannot be compared to the European Union. The level of integration between the countries inside the EU is unmatched. BRICS is more like a competitor of G7, but the BRICS members cannot be integrated into a strong political and economical alliance, because all countries in BRICS have rather independent foreign policies and want to actively trade with the western countries.
3.China doesn't want to play the role of a hegemon in BRICS, which can cause a problem, because such political and economical alliances require a dominant superpower, that acts as the leader of the alliance. The lack of a hegemon may cause the future collapse of BRICS.

[stompix]

So from what I understand, people are mad over Russia wanting piece of Ukraine, and they are mad that China wants piece of Taiwan, and they are mad North Korea has always wanted South Korea, and India wants Pakistan. And these are all bad, right? That is what you guys are saying?

 But you are forgetting, Europe still has companies sucking resources out of Africa?

You have to be a special case of brainwashed imbecile to put the two of these in a balance!
It's like saying you're dodging taxes with your crypto revenues is the same as someone killing your family!

Seek help! Like serious professional help!

[IjawMan]

The third side is envy that they could not be smarter and more cunning than the USA and did not make their currency the world reserve currency

This a misgiving to what led to the creation of the BRICS alliance and by design they are only a group of countries that wish to rescue their economies from unequal relations that are conditionally detrimental to their respective country's real development and economic prosperity.

Envy is like you saying that seeking for a better platform for yourself to be in a more comfortable condition where your not conditioned to constantly remain dependent is a crime.

The countries of the BRICS wants to save themselves from the consistent cunning economic wreck the Western and Europe giant countries are smashing on them, trade conditions that are not mutually beneficial etc.

If the BRICS can create a balance to the unequal world order and give these countries a platform to have economic corporations where trade relations is not dominated by a single country currency then it should be taken seriously instead of criticising it.

The dedollarisation is not literally anti America as many of you are making a pointer to but instead it about countries that are seeking for better value for their currency as would any American for theirs. Or do we not have BRICS countries doing business with EU and Western countries still?  I do not need to be that achieving what goals and objectives the BRICS stand for will take decades to achieve cause the other existing blocks the EU and USA are not taking a backseat doing nothing to frustrate it.

[Dogedegen]

Seriously, you're comparing countries that have open borders and have seen for the first time in their history half a century of no war and prosperity with a country that actively tries to regain control they lost since the Qing Empire everywhere, and if you think that a strong China smelling a weak Russia will not take all of Manciuria back the way Russia took Crimea, you're deluding yourself.

The same would happen in Europe, that is why the EU is being used to control the other European states and to weaken their sovereignty. If you believe otherwise you are ironically reading too much European propaganda and thinking that you are being a wise guy about China and Russia. 

And of course, any normal human would say that, war is bad, death is bad, and everyone should be friendly and have fun, and go have barbeque parties together and we should love each other. But you are forgetting, Europe still has companies sucking resources out of Africa? Or USA killing innocent people in Iran? You think the west is any better? You think USA is out there trying to be friendly and the east is just this bad place? I am sorry but go back to real world, everyone has problems, not just BRICS.

They are not any better in this part of the argument, they are just pretending to be better. And people who say that this is not true are just evil people who are propagandists for the system. Some are paid and doing it consciously, others are not conscious about it but they have been brainwashed by being exposed to false information for so long. Still that is not really what we are discussing here even if some prideful people can't admit that the EU is quite bad itself. The question is more whether BRICS has a chance of becoming something more serious like the EU, but at the current time everything points us in the direction of a no.

The countries of the BRICS wants to save themselves from the consistent cunning economic wreck the Western and Europe giant countries are smashing on them, trade conditions that are not mutually beneficial etc.

If the BRICS can create a balance to the unequal world order and give these countries a platform to have economic corporations where trade relations is not dominated by a single country currency then it should be taken seriously instead of criticising it.

These kinds of moves usually come as a counter response to prolonged abuse of some side, in this case the West. Still that does not mean that BRICS has a good chance of becoming something real and functional, those are separate things and I believe the author was hinting at that here. That just having this response to abuse as the main driver is not enough to make it a very good alliance, it needs more than that.

[Cryptomultiplier]

- Internal conflicts: There are political tensions between members (e.g., historical rivalry between China and India, disagreements over expanding the list of partner countries)
- Difficulties of de-dollarization: It is impossible to completely abandon the dollar, as economies are highly dependent on trade with the West and dominant world reserves. Settlement in national currencies (Rupees, Yuan, Real) is slow due to trade imbalances
- Different economic structure: The bloc includes states with very different levels of development, investment base and technological potential
- Lack of a single center: Unlike the European Union or the G7, BRICS does not have a rigid charter, a permanent secretariat, or its own supranational currency

1.The process of dedollarization is really slow and it takes time.
2.BRICS cannot be compared to the European Union. The level of integration between the countries inside the EU is unmatched. BRICS is more like a competitor of G7, but the BRICS members cannot be integrated into a strong political and economical alliance, because all countries in BRICS have rather independent foreign policies and want to actively trade with the western countries.
3.China doesn't want to play the role of a hegemon in BRICS, which can cause a problem, because such political and economical alliances require a dominant superpower, that acts as the leader of the alliance. The lack of a hegemon may cause the future collapse of BRICS.

Perhaps we may not see the actualization of BRICS in this generation but in a later one when things have structurally taken shape and place, but it's quite difficult to fully enact de-dollarization when the country having the dollar is a superpower in the world.

I see BRICS as an initiative like Bitcoin which is an alternative currency and so far the BRICs nations has seen how difficult it is to implement this despite the loud noise they made at the onset.
The structural realities of global trade makes BRICS countries to focus more on their economies because it would be absolutely difficult for de-dollarization to happen in the soonest time possible.

[MRY]

- Internal conflicts: There are political tensions between members (e.g., historical rivalry between China and India, disagreements over expanding the list of partner countries)
- Difficulties of de-dollarization: It is impossible to completely abandon the dollar, as economies are highly dependent on trade with the West and dominant world reserves. Settlement in national currencies (Rupees, Yuan, Real) is slow due to trade imbalances
- Different economic structure: The bloc includes states with very different levels of development, investment base and technological potential
- Lack of a single center: Unlike the European Union or the G7, BRICS does not have a rigid charter, a permanent secretariat, or its own supranational currency

1.The process of dedollarization is really slow and it takes time.
2.BRICS cannot be compared to the European Union. The level of integration between the countries inside the EU is unmatched. BRICS is more like a competitor of G7, but the BRICS members cannot be integrated into a strong political and economical alliance, because all countries in BRICS have rather independent foreign policies and want to actively trade with the western countries.
3.China doesn't want to play the role of a hegemon in BRICS, which can cause a problem, because such political and economical alliances require a dominant superpower, that acts as the leader of the alliance. The lack of a hegemon may cause the future collapse of BRICS.

Perhaps we may not see the actualization of BRICS in this generation but in a later one when things have structurally taken shape and place, but it's quite difficult to fully enact de-dollarization when the country having the dollar is a superpower in the world.

I see BRICS as an initiative like Bitcoin which is an alternative currency and so far the BRICs nations has seen how difficult it is to implement this despite the loud noise they made at the onset.
The structural realities of global trade makes BRICS countries to focus more on their economies because it would be absolutely difficult for de-dollarization to happen in the soonest time possible.

The dollar is still the king of the world market due to the solidness of its arrangement in the market. I believe BRICS won’t be able to copy Bitcoin that was created as a free alternative. National leader must know that it is no easy task to alter the direction in which worldwide trade moves and it will not be able to do it only by the use of words without some real evidence.

[juttsab@]

I think BRICKS was never designed to be a second EU it is people who have misconception for its standard that BRICKS has never set for itself. The members of BRICKS are different countries and they have different priorities on their National level, if we talk about China then China is considered as the world second largest economy the other countries like Russia India South Africa Brazil they have different economic strength and they have different political interest and every country try to protect their own strategic interest first before working for someone else.
They have expanded their membership you cannot say that they have completely failed I personally think that the dollarisation was a very unrealistic goal, the US dollar was dominant and still remain dominant because of it's own financial market and the global confidence that it has on the international level and its importance in the international trading. I think that BRICKS will continue to be more stronger and it will grow and it will also give the developing countries more power but I don't think that it will replace the dollar in the future.

[dezoel]

To be fair, at this point all people are saying in this topic is "yes this exists but also this exists, so this is bad but also this is bad" and nobody is realizing that, it's all bad. I think the reality you need to realize is that, west and east are all just caring about themselves, nobody cares about what you think.

Of course west is brainwashed about east, and of course east is brainwashed about west, and nobody will do something nice, because they will defend themselves by showing how bad things were done by others.