Dutch tax refugee: which country to move to?

[LoyceV]

Reading through your replies, it starts becoming actually pretty simple
- 1st world countries, this narrows the list by a ton, we get rid of almost two continents
- language barrier ( if not Dutch, then English; well, we got rid of parts of Europe, Japan, Sk, and any more)
- no fiscal paradises that require you to buy a 3 million apartment and have 500k in a bank like Monaco and others, and we erase Curacao also, right?

This sums it up nicely. I realize there aren't that many options left.

So, English, developed country:  US, Canada, Ireland, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Iceland

Iceland? I've always wanted to go there on holiday, but I never considered to live there. As far as I know the official language is Icelandic. But I guess they speak English almost everywhere. My wife is surprisingly enthousiastic about Iceland!

New Zealand bad you said

Don't get me wrong: I love the country, but I don't think it's going to be possible to get in.

Australia wants to kill you

To be clear: that wouldn't stop me from going there. I've been there, didn't get killed.

USA you didn't like that either plus with the whole immigration thing they will not be the best choice right now, you shot down Ireland also and I have a feeling you're going to do the same for the UK, Iceland will probably be a weird choice so: Canada or Belgium!
Unless you're either flexible on your views on the above listed countries, it's either Belgium or you ditch the language criteria.

I can make a longer list, but it's increasingly difficult to get there (legally). So far, on my "maybe list", I can have Belgium, Canada, Iceland, New Zealand, Australia and even Ireland. All with their own pros and cons.

Florida is kind of not bad tho for retirees.

The Dutch version of Florida is Spain: many retirees go there, or at least for winter. But with young kids, the language is a huge barrier to move permanently.

[WillyAp]

The Dutch version of Florida is Spain: many retirees go there, or at least for winter. But with young kids, the language is a huge barrier to move permanently.

Language can be learned.
Kids are the 1st learners so hard it isn't. 6 to 8 month you need.

[mindrust]

The Dutch version of Florida is Spain: many retirees go there, or at least for winter. But with young kids, the language is a huge barrier to move permanently.

Spain has a curse as well that's called "okupa".

Don't leave your home in Spain empty and go back to the Netherlands for a month or two.

If you find someone occupying your home when you get back to Spain, it will be hard to get them out. It might take years till a decision is made.

Squatting in Spain refers to the occupation of unused or derelict buildings or land without the permission of the owner. In Francoist Spain migrant workers lived in slums on the periphery of cities. During the Spanish transition to democracy, residential squatting occurred in Spanish cities such as Barcelona, Bilbao, Madrid, Valencia and Zaragoza. From the 1980s onwards a new generation of squatters set up self-managed social centres which hosted events and campaigns. The 1995 Criminal Code among other things criminalised squatting, but failed to stop it. Social centres exist across the country and in Barcelona and Madrid in particular. In the Basque Country they are known as gaztetxes [eu].

[theymos]

Looking at it from this side of the Atlantic, the US has lost much of it's "country of unlimited possibilities" image, and that's even when I try to ignore the generic "Republicans bad, Democrats good" in national media here.

There are a lot of problems, but the perception in the media that it's total chaos here is a big overreaction. Trump is testing US institutions, but they're largely holding, and life continues 99% as normal. Around 2031, once a lot of lessons from Biden and Trump have been learned, I think that the US will be stronger and more stable than it has been in decades. (Though it'll still be very far from perfect, I'm sure.)

From time to time I've briefly considered moving out of the US, but although there are a ton of issues with the US, there's really nowhere better for someone who likes freedom and has any ambition. I believe that the US will continue being the most culturally, militarily, and economically important country for a very long time, so if you want to do big things, the US is the best place to be. That's true even if you acknowledge the US as being a frequent force for evil in the world: inside of the US is the best place to nudge things in the right direction. It's like Ancient Rome: Rome was an evil state built on conquest and slavery, but if you wanted to do great things and make the biggest difference, better to be there than Ptolemaic Egypt (=Europe), Numidia (=Canada), or Rhodes (=New Zealand). Though if your top priority is having a peaceful life, then those latter options may well be better.

For me personally, the EU would be very low on my list. I find the EU to have a really worrying anti-growth culture, and also creeping authoritarian tendencies. I feel like in the name of trying to achieve safety and stability, they will actually hollow out the entire economy, and it'll be ripe for some sort of complete societal collapse, catalyzed by something from within or without. If I personally wanted to leave the US, my top picks would be Canada, New Zealand, and Chile.

To the Philippines.

I'll limit my "quest" to first world countries, I wouldn't want my kids to grow up surrounded by poverty. And again: the language.

It's probably not ideal for you, but I know a few people who moved from developed countries to the Philippines, and they seem to like it. They have a low cost-of-living there, and a good culture, it seems. English is very widespread.

Canada also seems to have lost a lot of it's laid-back image, at least from what I've seen online. But I've never actually been there.

Canadians are getting marginally less accepting of immigration, but immigration is still a core part of their whole national identity. I wouldn't worry about that at all. I know several people in Canada, and it sounds like a fantastic place to live. Though the top cities are known for having very high housing prices.

[notocactus]

I can make a longer list, but it's increasingly difficult to get there (legally). So far, on my "maybe list", I can have Belgium, Canada, Iceland, New Zealand, Australia and even Ireland. All with their own pros and cons.

I would like to pick Canada, the next choices in my list would be Australia and New Zealand.

Canada as far as I know has very immigration criteria from language to skill assessment for your occupation. You definitely have no issues with language and can easily meet their CLB requirement for your occupation, with high Tier in their NOOC. With many job tier in Canada, there is no mandatory Skill Assessment that you will have to do if you choose Australia.

Canada has another thing to consider for your family immigration. House prices there are more feasible than in Australia.

Even Canada has tried to tighten their immigration system since very last months of Justin Trudeau, it still has much more easier requirements than Australia.

Shorter time till getting Permanent Resident and Citizenship in Canada compares to in Australia too.
It will be easiest if you can have high points in Canada Express Entry stream.
If you know French, it's a big advantage as it can help getting more immigration points.
Your children will be given free education, whole family members get free health-care while in Australia, no 100% free education (depends on states but most common, it's 50% only) and no free health-care until you get your PR card.

I agree that in Australia, every living things will try to kill you is too exaggeration. Aussies can live well and in your holidays there, you were not killed.

If you consider Canada, think about provinces like Saskatchewan and Atlantic ones: Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador because your immigration can be more easily there.

[Free Market Capitalist]

I can make a longer list, but it's increasingly difficult to get there (legally). So far, on my "maybe list", I can have Belgium, Canada, Iceland, New Zealand, Australia and even Ireland. All with their own pros and cons.

I would like to pick Canada, the next choices in my list would be Australia and New Zealand.

Canada as far as I know has very immigration criteria from language to skill assessment for your occupation. You definitely have no issues with language and can easily meet their CLB requirement for your occupation, with high Tier in their NOOC. With many job tier in Canada, there is no mandatory Skill Assessment that you will have to do if you choose Australia.

I’m surprised Canada is even in the discussion. It’s a country that’s been completely infected by the woke virus for quite some time now, with high taxes, bad weather, and—as happens in all socialist countries—they’ve let half the world in just to have more voters who depend on some form of government assistance. That skilled immigration system is more a thing of the past. Furthermore, as is often the case, they let in millions of people while simultaneously imposing higher taxes and more regulations on construction, which has sent real estate prices through the roof.

Go to Canada to escape the wealth tax, and after all the paperwork and the move, don't be surprised if they impose one on you.

I would choose a traditionally Republican state in the U.S. that’s unlikely to change in the next election, no matter what happens in the presidential race.

[notocactus]

I’m surprised Canada is even in the discussion. It’s a country that’s been completely infected by the woke virus for quite some time now, with high taxes, bad weather, and—as happens in all socialist countries—they’ve let half the world in just to have more voters who depend on some form of government assistance. That skilled immigration system is more a thing of the past. Furthermore, as is often the case, they let in millions of people while simultaneously imposing higher taxes and more regulations on construction, which has sent real estate prices through the roof.

Immigration is a super big thing, and there are many factors for consideration: language, job, initial cost for immigration, criteria and waiting time till achieving Permanent Residence before Citizenship, house affordability, education, health-care, freedom, and more.

If it is only about house affordability, you can check, Canada is more affordable than Australia even in both nations, locals complain about housing crisis but between the two nations, there is one nation better, that is Canada.

If the initial immigration cost to Canada is feasible, I definitely choose it rather than Australia. In contrast, if the initial cost is too much with me, I would like to choose Australia and accept more challenge for my immigration pathway there.

Go to Canada to escape the wealth tax, and after all the paperwork and the move, don't be surprised if they impose one on you.

It's about the future, who knows about the future, so I don't mind too much about what will happen in far future.

Like people escaped their nations because of communists decades ago as boat people, nowadays have to face with something similar in the USA. Who knows about that?

At least, I love the USA because that nation was designed hundreds of years ago in a way of self-countering back something wrong. It's big difference than what is designed in dictatorship and communism nations like China, North Korea, and so on.

I would choose a traditionally Republican state in the U.S. that’s unlikely to change in the next election, no matter what happens in the presidential race.

The USA is a great nation, and only dislike the USA because of guns that are too dangerous and I don't want to die someday because of that.

From time to time I've briefly considered moving out of the US, but although there are a ton of issues with the US, there's really nowhere better for someone who likes freedom and has any ambition.

It's true, like Charlie Kirk said.

If in another nation, many people want to leave it by many ways, legal or illegal, and from generation to generation, it's not actually a good nation. No matter what mass propaganda has been run by government to brainwash their citizens.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

The Dutch version of Florida is Spain: many retirees go there, or at least for winter. But with young kids, the language is a huge barrier to move permanently.

It depends on where you move to; there won’t be any such barrier. About 20 years ago, I met a Dutch couple in Jávea. The husband was an engineer working for a multinational company there; the wife was a housewife looking after their four children. The children attended a British school. In British schools, everything is taught in English except for Spanish language lessons, and pupils gradually become familiar with the language. The couple spoke no Spanish at all apart from the odd word like ‘hola’ and ‘gracias’. I remember being struck by the fact that the wife spoke to her children in English, even though she was Dutch.

In parts of the Spanish coast, particularly in the provinces of Alicante and Málaga, there are plenty of expat communities and businesses where you’re served in English. I’ve met people from the UK who’ve been living there for decades, and they don’t speak Spanish.

So I don’t see a language barrier there; however, the main reason I wouldn’t move there is that the government is turning the country into a banana republic. It is, as things stand, the most corrupt government in the whole of Europe, and although those expat communities on the coast I’m talking about are safe and offer a good quality of life, with everything changing so fast, you never know what you’re getting yourself into.

[mindrust]

I can make a longer list, but it's increasingly difficult to get there (legally). So far, on my "maybe list", I can have Belgium, Canada, Iceland, New Zealand, Australia and even Ireland. All with their own pros and cons.

I would like to pick Canada, the next choices in my list would be Australia and New Zealand.

Canada as far as I know has very immigration criteria from language to skill assessment for your occupation. You definitely have no issues with language and can easily meet their CLB requirement for your occupation, with high Tier in their NOOC. With many job tier in Canada, there is no mandatory Skill Assessment that you will have to do if you choose Australia.

I’m surprised Canada is even in the discussion. It’s a country that’s been completely infected by the woke virus for quite some time now, with high taxes, bad weather, and—as happens in all socialist countries—they’ve let half the world in just to have more voters who depend on some form of government assistance. That skilled immigration system is more a thing of the past. Furthermore, as is often the case, they let in millions of people while simultaneously imposing higher taxes and more regulations on construction, which has sent real estate prices through the roof.

Go to Canada to escape the wealth tax, and after all the paperwork and the move, don't be surprised if they impose one on you.

I would choose a traditionally Republican state in the U.S. that’s unlikely to change in the next election, no matter what happens in the presidential race.

Most of Europe is infected by wokenium as well. Half of the US too.

Russia seems to be the least wokenium infected country along with China but they are having over-manliness poisoning which is as dangerous as wokenium poisoning. (it makes you isolated from the rest of the world :/ )

Texas and Florida seem to be the good places to retire imo. Tell Donnie to build a wall on the north side too.