Once Saved - Always Saved? The Great Salvation Debate

[godisreal]

One can appreciate the value of pondering the eternal in a world as volatile as ours with its fair share of mislaid keys and the like. In my off chain hours I have put in some time with theology and found myself pulled toward the “Once Saved - Always Saved” question which is always a topic in Christian circles.

It is no surprise that the OSAS (Eternal Security) matter has been dubbed the great debate. The scriptures will give you as good an argument for one side as the other on whether salvation is an irrevocable kind of transaction or something that demands the work of faith, repentance and perseverance. It gets to the very heart of grace and responsibility.

One group will tell you of Gods sovereign power to see His people through. Theirs is a simple case: the true believer is sealed because its His work to make us perfect not ours. On the other hand you have the view more conditional in nature. They put the burden on free will and will warn you of apostasy that you can forfeit your standing by willful sin or if you do not continue in faith.

As for me I would say God is faithful not to let go but we are the ones who have to hold fast and abide. Saving faith is no cheap license to sin it bears fruit. You could say in crypto terms that Gods grace is the ultimate but you dont want to paper hand your walk with Christ. Assurance lends you boldness the warnings keep you watchful.Let us be fair to the Bible and have an adult discussion about what it puts before us. Real faith ought to change a man.

I am open to some good replies on this. Put your thoughts, stories or verses on the table.

John 3:16

[passwordnow]

I believe in saved by Grace through faith but not with OSAS. Let's give this example, if you're already saved and you keep sinning, what it makes you? I think the debaters will also lean to the grace of God but, the bible also tells that God is angry at sinning and salvation can be gone if it's not well maintained(Heb 10:26). Like what it says in the Philippians 2:12 about working out our salvation with fear and trembling which means to also avoid sin. That's my personal preference though and I am not a pastor.

[caroasi]

This question quickly splits into two meanings by the Bible. Salvation generally means going to heaven forever. The first issue is that the Bible did not have a difference of wording when between practically forever and forever in a math sense at the time it was written. A billion years wouldn't be forever in the math sense. A Googolplex years and perhaps you can "start scratching the surface" of that eternity, though you can only put such a thing in quotes because it technically never even starts getting scratched. One scenario of such a thing happening as a mathematic forever would be if after entering heaven, one eventually merges into God more and more until becoming one and the same being, perhaps something that could take many orders of magnitude times the expected age of our observable universe. That also requires one to define continued existence after a full merger with a divine being.

So: Are we talking about salvation as being forever in a math sense or practically forever?

Very quickly all the concepts of a divine being are pushed to their logical limits on topics like this, leaving us at only our emotions and instinct as faith to determine such questions. Logic itself tends to come to an end of paradoxes in these discussions with it's limits.

Revelation 22:5 – “And night will be no more… for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.”
Psalm 41:13 – “Blessed be the LORD, the God of Israel, from everlasting to everlasting!” (He is eternally God, and heaven is sharing life with this everlasting God.)

To me this is suggestive of a mathematical forever, but at the time those words were written the idea of "mathematically forever" was generally not in written language.

[Ucy]

Once you're saved from the bondage of the enem or the system, you are grafted to the tree of life (MESSIAH's Body) to serve our CREATOR and bear good fruit. But our MESSIAH warned against the grafted not bearing fruit.

 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you." — John 15:1-7

If salvation cannot be lost HE wouldn't have said the unfruitful will be cut off.

Paul commanded the Church to cast out a member who was sleeping with his father's wife. And his reason was to prevent him from infecting others and weaken the church (a little yeast swells the whole dough), and that his spirit maybe saved in the day of our LORD..

And there are couple of Christains who were killed by our CREATOR for sinning. Peter judged them and they were struck down by the CREATOR.

If you want to understand the New Testament concerning salvation and losing it, read the old testament where the Israeli were saved from the bondage of Pharoah by our CREATOR, even by using blood of lamb for salvation and lamb as sacrifice.in place of those in bondage. Yet many were destroyed in the wilderness for grevious sin, which could be rightly termed deliberate/intentional/wicked sin. They were held accountable and weren't always saved. That part is a foreshadow of the journey of Newtestamrnt believers and their salvation. It started with being saved from the bondage of the enemy  through the death and blood of our MESSIAH. Now the believers are being guided to the promise land (Heavenily and Earth Paradise) through their faithful works. In the course of this journey many will be cut off due to the sins or unfaithfulness, while only few will eventually make it to the promise land

Remember the story of the 10 virgins, 5 made it while the others were left behind.


Concerning the part on our CREATOR making people righteous, offcoursey it was clearly stated by our MESSIAH that we can't be bear good fruit or be righteous by our own power, but HE or the Word is the one to make us righteous. The idea is that by
feeding yourself with the Word, it become part of you or, you re programmed by the Word to do right. So it's by believing in the Word and doing what It says that we can be made righteous. For its written: "Faith without work is dead"