Degen. $601 in bets voided, deposit refunded. SCAM

[leparda]

I deposited $250 at the casino, then placed sports bets, winning 12, losing six, and losing two. Of these bets, there were also two doubles and four bets on the World Championship. A few days ago, I placed a $602 withdrawal. The withdrawal was immediately approved, but the funds didn't appear in my wallet for several hours. I contacted support, who informed me that their provider had decided to cancel my bets because they were placed on a weak line. What was the line's weakness? Are you retroactively deciding what's weak and what isn't? I bet on what I wanted, and you suggest I bet on it. Please note that this complaint only appeared after I submitted the withdrawal request, suggesting that the casino apparently simply doesn't want to pay out, citing the provider's fault. I immediately warned the casino that I would withdraw my deposit as they suggested, but then I would start filing disputes on resources I knew. Especially since when I checked the same Bitcointalk, I was surprised to find several identical complaints from other users. A dubious coincidence, don't you think? I'm attaching screenshots of the correspondence and my bets.

Login: leparda

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[yahoo62278]

Let's hear what their REP has to say about all this as I like to see both sides to a story. If your version is correct, then negative trust is warranted but let's not go there yet. Degencom could you pop in and give us your version, thx.

[Mahdirakib]

~snip~ Especially since when I checked the same Bitcointalk, I was surprised to find several identical complaints from other users. A dubious coincidence, don't you think? I'm attaching screenshots of the correspondence and my bets.~

I doubt that it's a coincidence. Either there is something wrong with the internal fraud detection system of Degen, or a group of abusers has targeted the new platform Degen by thinking that they won't be able to detect the abusers. We won't be able to verify the truth here without seeing the evidence from both parties. Degen won't share the sensitive details here. You should submit a complaint at ContestHunters, the Degen team may share sensitive evidence with them.

[holydarkness]

I believe this is your case on CH: https://contesthunters.com/disputes/13 ? As you've escalate there, let's move it there and return here once things reached bottom, it will be rather exhausting to have two simultaneous platform to solve one exact case. I'll try to get Degen to reply there.

[leparda]

I believe this is your case on CH: https://contesthunters.com/disputes/13 ? As you've escalate there, let's move it there and return here once things reached bottom, it will be rather exhausting to have two simultaneous platform to solve one exact case. I'll try to get Degen to reply there.

Yes, that is my complaint. Alright, let's wait for a response there.

[LoyceV]

I'll quote the most relevant parts:

I've seen this many times before: a "sportsbook" offers bets, but if the user selects winning bets, they come up with an excuse so they don't have to pay. None of this makes sense: if they don't want users to bet on "weak lines" (whatever that may be), they shouldn't offer them. They're not paying back the users who lost, so they shouldn't confiscate winnings either!

[rohang]

So whatever lines we win on can be termed as 'weak' and they will easily confiscate both deposit +winnings ??

This is some absolute BS happening on these new sites.

We dont see these type of things happen ever on sites like stake,shuffle etc. No wonder they are the industry leaders now.

Pretty obvious these new books dont want to payout any winnings and just there to take in deposits. Disgusting behaviour

[Ronsbit]

So whatever lines we win on can be termed as 'weak' and they will easily confiscate both deposit +winnings ??

This is some absolute BS happening on these new sites.

We dont see these type of things happen ever on sites like stake,shuffle etc. No wonder they are the industry leaders now.

Pretty obvious these new books dont want to payout any winnings and just there to take in deposits. Disgusting behaviour

These are the signs or warning flags of weak casinos, as they call it. They are just broke and do not have enough financial bankroll to support themselves, hence they keep banning, seizing, and suspending wins and withdrawals just to cover up their financial lapses, because if they do not, the bubble would burst. Already, their act exposed them to the gambling community, as these are the signs that show how financially weak a casino could be, as these are the steps they take to save themselves from collapsing, not knowing that they had already collapsed their walls by displaying such an act.

[rohang]

So whatever lines we win on can be termed as 'weak' and they will easily confiscate both deposit +winnings ??

This is some absolute BS happening on these new sites.

We dont see these type of things happen ever on sites like stake,shuffle etc. No wonder they are the industry leaders now.

Pretty obvious these new books dont want to payout any winnings and just there to take in deposits. Disgusting behaviour

These are the signs or warning flags of weak casinos, as they call it. They are just broke and do not have enough financial bankroll to support themselves, hence they keep banning, seizing, and suspending wins and withdrawals just to cover up their financial lapses, because if they do not, the bubble would burst. Already, their act exposed them to the gambling community, as these are the signs that show how financially weak a casino could be, as these are the steps they take to save themselves from collapsing, not knowing that they had already collapsed their walls by displaying such an act.

To me Degen looked really attractive and well planned site , maybe even a likeness to early stake

But it seems the bankroll or/and the management plans to run the site are not on the same level. Multiple cases of voiding sports bets with the same vague excuse are very very shady.I didnt play alot there and i am very glad i stuck to my regular places

[JollyGood]

It seems somewhat odd that the degencom account has not posted anything in this thread yet it seems as though he managed to contact AB de Royse777 and that prompted this response from him: I was notified to look into a red tag left for degencom

It is possible that the degencom account did not contact him and maybe it was another member but AB de Royse777 was ambiguous on the matter in his post therefore members will base a decision on the information available. Nevertheless, the degencom account could posted their side of the story.

[holydarkness]

So whatever lines we win on can be termed as 'weak' and they will easily confiscate both deposit +winnings ??

This is some absolute BS happening on these new sites.

We dont see these type of things happen ever on sites like stake,shuffle etc. No wonder they are the industry leaders now.

Pretty obvious these new books dont want to payout any winnings and just there to take in deposits. Disgusting behaviour

Actually... "sites like Stake, shuffle, etc." uhh, Stake doesn't respond to scam accusation on this forum anymore, so pretty much all of the complaint against them, it's "we've made a call, and everyone shall obey." This is especially true to another big industry-leader casino like Betcoin who dismisses cases with response that does not open to negotiation or a room to wiggle for a mutual-understanding, of which... arguably understandable from an industry leader casino like Betcoin who have one of the cleanest record on my list. They buit their reputation not only from being here for more than a decade, but also from being casino who can prove that they're the one being wronged and the player tried to cheat them.

But I observed other casino, that's on a speed-track to "industry leader casino" through big promo on the forum, also attempted to do the same method to dismiss matter, "You do this, we have evidence for it, no, it's not for debate, end of discussion," thinking that [I strongly assume] birthed from their thought that huge marketing presence on the forum only is enough to dismiss cases without providing their own counter evidence beyond reasonable doubt.

So... yeah, these type of things happen ever on big sites because they dismiss without bothering to convince the forum, due to their big name and long-standing reputation. Question is, do same benefit-of-doubt and taking-word-at-face-value applied the same to a relatively new casino just because they hold massive marketing promo and freebies on the forum? Hold sig. campaign managed by big name?

Sorry for going OOT, just showing that reputation and benefit of doubts should not be given just because they're industry leader [or hold many promos], it should be earned through time of cooperating with each complaint and being transparent... until their words can be taken for granted.

[rohang]

So whatever lines we win on can be termed as 'weak' and they will easily confiscate both deposit +winnings ??

This is some absolute BS happening on these new sites.

We dont see these type of things happen ever on sites like stake,shuffle etc. No wonder they are the industry leaders now.

Pretty obvious these new books dont want to payout any winnings and just there to take in deposits. Disgusting behaviour

Actually... "sites like Stake, shuffle, etc." uhh, Stake doesn't respond to scam accusation on this forum anymore, so pretty much all of the complaint against them, it's "we've made a call, and everyone shall obey." This is especially true to another big industry-leader casino like Betcoin who dismisses cases with response that does not open to negotiation or a room to wiggle for a mutual-understanding, of which... arguably understandable from an industry leader casino like Betcoin who have one of the cleanest record on my list. They buit their reputation not only from being here for more than a decade, but also from being casino who can prove that they're the one being wronged and the player tried to cheat them.

But I observed other casino, that's on a speed-track to "industry leader casino" through big promo on the forum, also attempted to do the same method to dismiss matter, "You do this, we have evidence for it, no, it's not for debate, end of discussion," thinking that [I strongly assume] birthed from their thought that huge marketing presence on the forum only is enough to dismiss cases without providing their own counter evidence beyond reasonable doubt.

So... yeah, these type of things happen ever on big sites because they dismiss without bothering to convince the forum, due to their big name and long-standing reputation. Question is, do same benefit-of-doubt and taking-word-at-face-value applied the same to a relatively new casino just because they hold massive marketing promo and freebies on the forum? Hold sig. campaign managed by big name?

Sorry for going OOT, just showing that reputation and benefit of doubts should not be given just because they're industry leader [or hold many promos], it should be earned through time of cooperating with each complaint and being transparent... until their words can be taken for granted.

To be fair i havent seen the 'player bet on weak line' argument before, either from stake/shuffle or anyone else

Looks like a new betby thing maybe?

Perhaps the newer sites like degen etc dont have dedicated sports risk analysis/sports head honchos yet who have the knowledge and authority to over ride betby call

Now i think about it, its more likely to me its betby and casinos just going with it.
 

[JollyGood]

Their forum representative has been posting quite extensively to promote their casino but has not posted in this thread nor the one that AB de Royse777 seemingly created to advocate on behalf of the degencom account here: Can we look into inspace feedback activities and his quick red tag to degencom?

The degencom account has not responded to the allegations in any thread below:

Degen. $601 in bets voided, deposit refunded. SCAM
Degen Casino refuses to pay 513.98 USDT Sportsbook winnings
Can we look into inspace feedback activities and his quick red tag to degencom?

They made just one post in this thread: Degen.com Confiscated My Winnings

The impression they give is that just because they are running a campaign they are beyond scrutiny. They seem to be confident in their approach especially when advocates such as AB de Royse777 jump to their defence without even addressing the conduct of the casino.

Let's hear what their REP has to say about all this as I like to see both sides to a story. If your version is correct, then negative trust is warranted but let's not go there yet. Degencom could you pop in and give us your version, thx.

[yahoo62278]

Their forum representative has been posting quite extensively to promote their casino but has not posted in this thread nor the one that AB de Royse777 seemingly created to advocate on behalf of the degencom account here: Can we look into inspace feedback activities and his quick red tag to degencom?

The degencom account has not responded to the allegations in any thread below:

Degen. $601 in bets voided, deposit refunded. SCAM
Degen Casino refuses to pay 513.98 USDT Sportsbook winnings
Can we look into inspace feedback activities and his quick red tag to degencom?

They made just one post in this thread: Degen.com Confiscated My Winnings

The impression they give is that just because they are running a campaign they are beyond scrutiny. They seems to be confident in their approach especially when advocates such as AB de Royse777 jump to their defence without even addressing the conduct of the casino.

Let's hear what their REP has to say about all this as I like to see both sides to a story. If your version is correct, then negative trust is warranted but let's not go there yet. Degencom could you pop in and give us your version, thx.

I read the thread in reputation and it's kinda odd to see Royse making threads like that. He used to make threads like that in his early days and get heated when he faced pushback. So might be an interesting thread to watch with popcorn.

As far as the casino goes, I am not a fan of a lack of response but I don't wanna jump the gun and tag. The issue is even if they respond we are expected to just take their word for it. I'll see what holydarkness accomplishes but his process is slow.

[holydarkness]

[...] I'll see what holydarkness accomplishes but his process is slow.

Expediting it as best as I can by giving my best now by attempting a shot in the dark and see if I can work with marketing instead of compliance. Please hold a little.

[JollyGood]

It seems as though AB de Royse777 created that thread thinking his so-called reputation would add weight his advocacy of the Degen casino. He was deliberately avoiding the name of the member that "notified" him to create that thread.

Also, he used that thread to claim there was a "circle of ideal assistant" thus alluding to conspiracy and collusion. Popcorn really is in hand  

The degencom  account posted again today to promote their casino but again has not bothered to post in any thread that is questioning their conduct as scam accusations are being made against them. One other thing, is there any truth to their claim: Degen.com | Fastest Growing Online Casino & Sportsbook | DEGEN VIP Transfer

With any data that is currently available, can it actually be proven statistically if they are or are not the fastest growing online casino and sportsbook?

I read the thread in reputation and it's kinda odd to see Royse making threads like that. He used to make threads like that in his early days and get heated when he faced pushback. So might be an interesting thread to watch with popcorn.

As far as the casino goes, I am not a fan of a lack of response but I don't wanna jump the gun and tag. The issue is even if they respond we are expected to just take their word for it. I'll see what holydarkness accomplishes but his process is slow.

[holydarkness]

Expediting the case resolution successful, as can be witnessed, the casino has replied on CH very recently. OP, can you confirm that you withdraw the initial deposit that they returned?

[degencom]

We have intentionally refrained from responding in this thread while the matter is being handled through the Contest Hunters ADR process.

As soon as we were notified that a formal case had been opened against us, we responded there and have been providing the mediator with our evidence and a full account of the events. We believe the ADR process is the appropriate place for disputes of this nature, where all evidence can be reviewed impartially, rather than conducting the case across multiple public platforms.

We have noticed a number of comments stating or implying that the player's deposits were taken. That is incorrect. The player was offered a refund of their deposit, accepted it, and successfully withdrew the funds. This is one of several facts that will be presented as part of the ADR process.

Out of respect for the ongoing mediation, we will keep our detailed submissions within the ADR process and will abide by its outcome.

[yahoo62278]

We have intentionally refrained from responding in this thread while the matter is being handled through the Contest Hunters ADR process.

As soon as we were notified that a formal case had been opened against us, we responded there and have been providing the mediator with our evidence and a full account of the events. We believe the ADR process is the appropriate place for disputes of this nature, where all evidence can be reviewed impartially, rather than conducting the case across multiple public platforms.

We have noticed a number of comments stating or implying that the player's deposits were taken. That is incorrect. The player was offered a refund of their deposit, accepted it, and successfully withdrew the funds. This is one of several facts that will be presented as part of the ADR process.

Out of respect for the ongoing mediation, we will keep our detailed submissions within the ADR process and will abide by its outcome.

I try to stay impartial and not take sides until all the information comes out. I seen holydarkness mention the CH investigation and decided to wait til that was concluded. I appreciate you guys responding and if a situation arises again and it's being pursued through CH, just let users know that you are responding on that platform and keep the speculation to a minimum.

[JollyGood]

I deposited $250 at the casino, then placed sports bets, winning 12, losing six, and losing two. Of these bets, there were also two doubles and four bets on the World Championship. A few days ago, I placed a $602 withdrawal. The withdrawal was immediately approved, but the funds didn't appear in my wallet for several hours. I contacted support, who informed me that their provider had decided to cancel my bets because they were placed on a weak line. What was the line's weakness? Are you retroactively deciding what's weak and what isn't? I bet on what I wanted, and you suggest I bet on it. Please note that this complaint only appeared after I submitted the withdrawal request, suggesting that the casino apparently simply doesn't want to pay out, citing the provider's fault. I immediately warned the casino that I would withdraw my deposit as they suggested, but then I would start filing disputes on resources I knew. Especially since when I checked the same Bitcointalk, I was surprised to find several identical complaints from other users. A dubious coincidence, don't you think? I'm attaching screenshots of the correspondence and my bets.

If you wanted 100% impartiality (or as close to it as possible), why did you use the "Contest Hunters" website?

Did you know the Degen campaign manager is behind it?

We have intentionally refrained from responding in this thread while the matter is being handled through the Contest Hunters ADR process.

Was it you that notified AB de Royse777 to create the thread to investigate if the negative tag was justified? If you did not, do you know who did?

If it was you, did you intentionally ask AB de Royse777 to create the thread while you intentionally refrained from responding in this thread while the matter is being handled through the Contest Hunters ADR process. If so, why did you query the negative tag when that too could have waited until after the Contest Hunters ADR process was complete?

Having said that, I had never heard of “Contest Hunters” until earlier today when it was mentioned in a recent post and then it was also mentioned that Little Mouse is behind it. Keeping in mind Little Mouse is your campaign manager (therefore the conflict of interest is right there for all to see), even though you stated it was not you that instigated the case the outcome will be interesting.