Degen. $601 in bets voided, deposit refunded. SCAM (resolved)

[Rating Place]

[...]
If we are now talking about him reviewing the evidence from both parties on a website that was created by a campaign manager and him being the sole adjudicator and the one that has the final say on whether the claimant was scammed or the casino was not guilty, that is a different matter altogether. I appreciate him being the middle-man in an attempt at conflict resolution but I do not support any one member (regardless of who that member might be) to make a decision that is binding between both parties.
[...]

Ooff... that'll be a bit awkward situation here, given my binding decision after reading all the evidence is to get Degen to pay the difference between amount disputed and what's already returned as initial deposit, amounted in 352 USD.

I mean, we're really close to conflict resolution attempt here, it's sad if that has to go down the drain because a situation where I become the conciliator [it's the term they used there, not "adjudicator"] is not supported. I personally don't mind, less stress for me. The work I do, to read all the evidences and piecing the puzzles, are no different than what I do here, but [if I may borrow the closest euphemism, though in no way I am saying I wear it] heavy is the head that wear the crown.

Being the one who make the final call is not easy, especially if you're neutral, because other people from the other side who doesn't like the call, or simply have a personal agenda, can use that verdict-making as a way to attack me.

So... yeah, a bit awkward here, given my call is to reimburse the difference, and if it has to go down the drain, as I don't think same offer can be achieved elsewhere. And sure, we can get people to not use CH to resolve Degen's cases [or any other casinos cases], and when the casino is silent or non-responsive, we can tag and flag them. But will that be a satisfactory outcome to the player who lose their fund? If they may choose to get refunded through a binding decision or to get the casino tagged because escalation to a specific ADR is frowned upon, I wonder what would they choose.

what evidence did you need to look at? The bet and line is all you needed. There’s nothing private. If you don’t have the line history the book can show you the percentage that the line is off from widely available. Post that percentage.

If you post that, we can make a decision. Otherwise you are just negotiating so the book can pay a discounted price.

@degen what is your definition of a weak line?

[Free Market Capitalist]

[...]
If we are now talking about him reviewing the evidence from both parties on a website that was created by a campaign manager and him being the sole adjudicator and the one that has the final say on whether the claimant was scammed or the casino was not guilty, that is a different matter altogether. I appreciate him being the middle-man in an attempt at conflict resolution but I do not support any one member (regardless of who that member might be) to make a decision that is binding between both parties.
[...]

Ooff... that'll be a bit awkward situation here, given my binding decision after reading all the evidence is to get Degen to pay the difference between amount disputed and what's already returned as initial deposit, amounted in 352 USD.

JollyGood, your "support" doesn't mean anything in this matter. You have no say when two parties in conflict agree to have a third party resolve the issue.

Good job, holydarkness. This case is closed to the satisfaction of the player. Can we move on to the next one?

[Rating Place]

[...]
If we are now talking about him reviewing the evidence from both parties on a website that was created by a campaign manager and him being the sole adjudicator and the one that has the final say on whether the claimant was scammed or the casino was not guilty, that is a different matter altogether. I appreciate him being the middle-man in an attempt at conflict resolution but I do not support any one member (regardless of who that member might be) to make a decision that is binding between both parties.
[...]

Ooff... that'll be a bit awkward situation here, given my binding decision after reading all the evidence is to get Degen to pay the difference between amount disputed and what's already returned as initial deposit, amounted in 352 USD.

JollyGood, your "support" doesn't mean anything in this matter. You have no say when two parties in conflict agree to have a third party resolve the issue.

Good job, holydarkness. This case is closed to the satisfaction of the player. Can we move on to the next one?

I think that Jolly Good makes a lot of great points. I don’t think that giving a book a discount is success. It’s just helping books to continue a predatory practice where they don’t pay full price to winners but take 100% from losers.

[holydarkness]

[...]
Good job, holydarkness. This case is closed to the satisfaction of the player. Can we move on to the next one?

We can try that once the next one escalate to CH, but the next one doesn't seem to listen, so I can't touch his case. Degen is currently funneling their complaints to CH [for reference, and just in case anyone want to have a dick measuring contest, Rollbit is funneling their complaints to their very own internal team and no outsider party can take a look or argue their decision], I can only close a case and draw a verdict once I see the counter-evidence that Degen provide there.

[Free Market Capitalist]

I think that Jolly Good makes a lot of great points. I don’t think that giving a book a discount is success. It’s just helping books to continue a predatory practice where they don’t pay full price to winners but take 100% from losers.

A discount, you fucking mongoloid? Not only can't you read, but you can't do math either. So it's no surprise you're spouting that nonsense.

[Rating Place]

I think that Jolly Good makes a lot of great points. I don’t think that giving a book a discount is success. It’s just helping books to continue a predatory practice where they don’t pay full price to winners but take 100% from losers.

A discount, you fucking mongoloid? Not only can't you read, but you can't do math either. So it's no surprise you're spouting that nonsense.

I deleted one post. If I misread and the player was paid in full then I apologize and holy did a good job. Was the player paid 100% of his winnings? It’s confusing since this would be the first time that holy disagreed with the odds provider. Holy said the odds providers make the call and the book is the middleman.

If holy is willing to start disagreeing with the odds providers, then there may be value to the new site.

[inspace]

leparda, Hello. Change the thread title to <solved>. I've removed the tag for now, and I think holydarkness's help was far more significant in this matter than his fee. I don't think I'd have the patience to act as a peacemaker and would probably prefer to find another job altogether.

I'll hold off on tagging for a while due to other newly opened fraud allegations, so Degen can resolve them without feeling pressured.

[holydarkness]

leparda, Hello. Change the thread title to <solved>. I've removed the tag for now, and I think holydarkness's help was far more significant in this matter than his fee. I don't think I'd have the patience to act as a peacemaker and would probably prefer to find another job altogether.

I'll hold off on tagging for a while due to other newly opened fraud allegations, so Degen can resolve them without feeling pressured.

I... uhh... urmmm... not paid, just so that it's crystal clear that I am neutral and totally run non-profit, so my "fee" is only my weekly sig. campaign. As always, just like years of bridging cases here. The fee for being concilliator was offered at the dawn of CH, but I rejected them because I want to stay neutral. Of which [in a joking tone] I need to start to considering to finally take fee, as the fine print doesn't say I will be sucked into a drama and headache-inducing forum politics.

[nutildah]

what evidence did you need to look at?

Its irrelevant. Per usual, HD does not owe you a response. I don't know why you still fail to understand this. Stop trying to throw wrenches in his cases.

leparda, Hello. Change the thread title to <solved>.

He should probably wait until the money is in his pocket.

I've removed the tag for now, and I think holydarkness's help was far more significant in this matter than his fee. I don't think I'd have the patience to act as a peacemaker and would probably prefer to find another job altogether.

These are all valid points that some people seem to take for granted.

[Rating Place]

what evidence did you need to look at?

Its irrelevant. Per usual, HD does not owe you a response. I don't know why you still fail to understand this. Stop trying to throw wrenches in his cases.

leparda, Hello. Change the thread title to <solved>.

He should probably wait until the money is in his pocket.

I've removed the tag for now, and I think holydarkness's help was far more significant in this matter than his fee. I don't think I'd have the patience to act as a peacemaker and would probably prefer to find another job altogether.

These are all valid points that some people seem to take for granted.

Knee pads , for 2 years you interfered with cases and prolonged them for months. Holy is beginning to understand it doesn’t take months of irrelevant questioning and that odds providers don’t make the final decision. If not for you interfering, he may have learned this a long time ago and cases would have been settled in days.


This case was for a tiny amount of money. If holy comes to the same conclusion in big money cases, his new site will be valuable. There really isn’t much to be done other than asking the book what they consider a weak line. There’s a difference between weak and bad.

[JollyGood]

Edit: above is the exact perfect example of people with personal agenda. Now imagine I have to make calls sorrounded by these... things [sorry, has no other word to describe the being that justify their existence], or even the neutrals.

In no way my post is intended to attack you personally, rather your opinion, as in an attempt to engage in open-minded discussion. Just because I become a concilliator in a platform that happened to be owned by a CM, doesn't mean I can walk freely in the park. It's the Sword of Damocles situation for me, everybody can read, everybody can judge, and there has to be little to zero margin of error in my verdict.

Do you see the situation now? Heavy is the head that wear the crown, with Damocles's sword hanging above.

I clearly see the picture and understand your predicament.

In essence, what has been proposed is that in any matter of dispute if both/all parties agree to binding terms (with you as the sole arbiter) then that should be the end of the matter. I am entitled to an opinion just as every other member of the forum and my opinion was expressed and has not changed.

With the effort you are putting in towards addressing many scam accusations in the forum (and you have been for a very long time), I wish you success in your endeavours.

JollyGood, your "support" doesn't mean anything in this matter. You have no say when two parties in conflict agree to have a third party resolve the issue.

I have an opinion and I expressed it. For those that wish to arbitrate in this manner and then accept a binding resolution will go ahead regardless of whether I support it or not.

I think that Jolly Good makes a lot of great points. I don’t think that giving a book a discount is success. It’s just helping books to continue a predatory practice where they don’t pay full price to winners but take 100% from losers.

What on earth is this post about?

Kindly enlighten me, what are the good points that I made about discounts and books?

I made no comment that would have warranted an incoherent reply from you. Maybe you overlooked something, are you sure you referenced the right person in your post?

[Rating Place]

My post should have been done in two separate paragraphs. The discount comment has nothing to do with you. Giving a book a discount means negotiating rather than making a decision on the party in the right. This thread gives me hope that the days of recommending deposits returned and winnings confiscated are over.

[holydarkness]

[...]

leparda, Hello. Change the thread title to <solved>.

He should probably wait until the money is in his pocket.
[...]

The remaining fund has been returned, as per few hours ago, I've informed the player on CH [as it seems OP do follow the recommendation and focused there and barely online here after case being moved there] so he can withdraw immediately.

I will closely monitor from both ends [CH and checking from degen's rep] to see if the fund moved, and would encourage OP to return to the forum and mark this as resolved by then.

Though, at this point, the case should be as good as resolved, given the fund is ready for OP to be transferred to his wallet.

[leparda]

[...]

leparda, Hello. Change the thread title to <solved>.

He should probably wait until the money is in his pocket.
[...]

The remaining fund has been returned, as per few hours ago, I've informed the player on CH [as it seems OP do follow the recommendation and focused there and barely online here after case being moved there] so he can withdraw immediately.

I will closely monitor from both ends [CH and checking from degen's rep] to see if the fund moved, and would encourage OP to return to the forum and mark this as resolved by then.

Though, at this point, the case should be as good as resolved, given the fund is ready for OP to be transferred to his wallet.

I'll write this here as well. I confirm that I have received the $352 (including the deposit refund, which totals the $601 discussed earlier). I now have no financial claims against Degen Casino. Thank you for your assistance!

[yahoo62278]

[...]

leparda, Hello. Change the thread title to <solved>.

He should probably wait until the money is in his pocket.
[...]

The remaining fund has been returned, as per few hours ago, I've informed the player on CH [as it seems OP do follow the recommendation and focused there and barely online here after case being moved there] so he can withdraw immediately.

I will closely monitor from both ends [CH and checking from degen's rep] to see if the fund moved, and would encourage OP to return to the forum and mark this as resolved by then.

Though, at this point, the case should be as good as resolved, given the fund is ready for OP to be transferred to his wallet.

I'll write this here as well. I confirm that I have received the $352 (including the deposit refund, which totals the $601 discussed earlier). I now have no financial claims against Degen Casino. Thank you for your assistance!

Glad you got your money, now you should probably lock this thread since your case is over.