Will BIP 110 be activated?

[Wind_FURY]

BIP 110 Is a Luke Dash Jr vanity stunt, I am not remotely interested in supporting it, I will never run Knots. I had enough of this nonsense in the shit fork years. I hope others agree!

Plus it doesn't even actually stop those transactions they don't like.

Here's a sort of performance art on Luke Dash Jr.'s vanity stunt.

   

RIP 110 explores the concept that every Bitcoin transaction is a JPEG.

https://mempool.space/tx/b4cb51d87773ebb93bc309d3457ef89b31f21e3b8a88d7f4a466509569e127f7

A BIP 110-compatible TX with 110 inputs, each contributing one row to a 160×110 BMP, byte-for-byte.

CONTIGIOUS 52KB image file.

No data pushes. No special encoding.

This further demonstrates the futility of trying to prevent arbitrary data on Bitcoin.

https://x.com/lifofifo/status/2081456511855837570

There's probably an agenda to sell 110Coins to make some Bitcoin, no?

[DaveF]

There's probably an agenda to sell 110Coins to make some Bitcoin, no?

That is going to be tough. As of now, less then 2 weeks out from the knots clients no longer accepting what the rest of the network sees as valid blocks and there are no exchanges that support it.
At a guess there are going to be a bunch of people trying to dump the 110 coins and no place to do it at. And anyplace that does actually support it is going to get swamped with people trying to sell and drive the price down to dust.

-Dave

[Wind_FURY]

There's probably an agenda to sell 110Coins to make some Bitcoin, no?

That is going to be tough. As of now, less then 2 weeks out from the knots clients no longer accepting what the rest of the network sees as valid blocks and there are no exchanges that support it.

At a guess there are going to be a bunch of people trying to dump the 110 coins and no place to do it at. And anyplace that does actually support it is going to get swamped with people trying to sell and drive the price down to dust.

-Dave

There will be SOME exchanges that will NOT ignore any opportunity to profit from deposit/trading fees, especially those smaller exchanges.

Plus be careful of Replay Attacks before you send some coins if you want to sell 110Coins to buy more Bitcoin. I believe Replay Protection is not enabled/mandatory in a protocol level in BIP-110.

[ABCbits]

--snip--

There will be SOME exchanges that will NOT ignore any opportunity to profit from deposit/trading fees, especially those smaller exchanges.

Only if such exchange either not aware or don't care about bug mentioned on https://blockslop.dev/ (already mentioned earlier by @DaveF), such as possibility of split into N (above 2) chain.

Plus be careful of Replay Attacks before you send some coins if you want to sell 110Coins to buy more Bitcoin. I believe Replay Protection is not enabled/mandatory in a protocol level in BIP-110.

Yeah. It's not mentioned on BIP 110. I tried searching with keyword "replay" on both Bitcoin Knots issue and PR[1-2], but currently there's no mention about it. In worst case, you need to create TX on Bitcoin network that violate BIP 110, to ensure replay attack doesn't happen.

[1] https://github.com/bitcoinknots/bitcoin/issues?q=replay
[2] https://github.com/bitcoinknots/bitcoin/pulls?q=replay

[athanred]

In worst case, you need to create TX on Bitcoin network that violate BIP 110, to ensure replay attack doesn't happen.

It would be easy, if people could simply use P2PK, to prevent their coins from moving on BIP-110 chain. Unfortunately, BIP-110 rules are activated 4,032 blocks later, after the chain will split. Which means, that BIP-110 chain, with its 1% or 2% of hashrate, would need 50 or 100 times more, to get there. Which means something like 50 or 100 months, instead of a single month, which means years of mining, if you assume, that OCEAN miners won't give up, and Luke won't change the code, to bring back 10 minutes per block on their chain, by making it easier to mine, by introducing "weak blocks", "PoW change", or whatever rescue plan they will come up with.

Technically, it is possible to make "weak blocks", and make it compatible with already deployed BIP-110 clients. But I don't know, if these people will have the courage to do so, when hard-forking is far easier, than properly handling 1% minority soft-fork with 10 minutes per "weak block".

I guess people will see both coins, moving on both chains. And then, they will quickly give up, and use BIP-110 coins, just to push some data, because suddenly, they will have some coins, which cannot be used properly. And if you have some useless coins, then the only use case is trolling BIP-110 supporters, by showing them, that pushing data cannot be stopped. And then, probably most forkcoins will be burned into fees, if there will be no market to swap them for BTCs.

[DaveF]

Someone just pointed out to me that it's actually good scam on lukes part.

Knots stops accepting blocks around Aug 8th. 110 is supposed to be fully activated 30 days later.

Sometime between Aug 8th and Sept 8th give or take a couple days luke introduces the new 110 / knots node software.

New also, new difficulty, new rules, all of the coins luke wants goes to his addresses.

Since it's 100% not BTC at that point it easily gets listed on exchanges and profit.


Damn, why didn't I think of that. Could have made some money from it.
Anyone want to but Dave's itchy left testicle coin? It's the one pure fork of BTC

-Dave

[athanred]

110 is supposed to be fully activated 30 days later

It is coded to activate 4,032 blocks later. If the time between BIP-110 blocks will be much longer than 10 minutes, then it would take much more time. At their current hashrate, it would take years, if miners won't give up, and maintain 1% or 2% of the global hashrate for years.

Damn, why didn't I think of that. Could have made some money from it.

There are many altcoins, anyone can always make a new one at any time. Paul Sztorc said, that we should do hard-forks every day. Today, even testnets are traded, so you never know. If you feel lucky, you can always make a testnet, and pretend, that it was supposed to be worthless, and you are surprised, that it is traded for anything real. Altcoins must be in a terrible state, if some exchanges would rather list testnets, only because they are included into Bitcoin Core.

New also, new difficulty, new rules, all of the coins luke wants goes to his addresses.

Yes, but I wonder, if doing that would crush the promise of being "the true Bitcoin". If you accept the fact, that developers can change the difficulty, just because they are not in a majority, then they can always do the same thing in the future. From the "holy Bitcoin" perspective, following the original algorithm, and decreasing it from the current level is more compatible with the whitepaper. But of course it is quite costly, and it requires a lot of effort, to implement fractional confirmations properly, to make the whole thing a soft-fork, to allow users to trade things properly in the meantime, and to never enter the hard-fork territory.

Because of course they can always do a hard-fork. But then, they would be called liars again, and all of the posts, where they talked about BIP-110 being a soft-fork, will be endlessly quoted, so it would hit their reputation in some way, when it comes to the most hardcore supporters, believing in soft-forks. But who knows, maybe they will decide to take that hit, instead of making a lot of changes, to maintain some usable minority soft-fork, where things could be settled every 10 minutes, despite having 1% hashrate, by constantly mining a new block on the same height, until it confirms, counting "fractional confirmations", and so on.

[ABCbits]

In worst case, you need to create TX on Bitcoin network that violate BIP 110, to ensure replay attack doesn't happen.

It would be easy, if people could simply use P2PK, to prevent their coins from moving on BIP-110 chain.
--snip--

I expect there's more wallet that support creating OP_RETURN output with size above 83 bytes, rather than generate P2PK "address" in the wallet or send any amount of Bitcoin to P2PK "address".

Sometime between Aug 8th and Sept 8th give or take a couple days luke introduces the new 110 / knots node software.

New also, new difficulty, new rules, all of the coins luke wants goes to his addresses.

Since it's 100% not BTC at that point it easily gets listed on exchanges and profit.

Whether it works by issuing lots of new coins or steal confiscate from either satoshi/spam UTXO, people could find out easily by using block explorer or inspect the source code with AI. So i doubt he would do such crazy thing, although i could be too naive here.

[DaveF]

In worst case, you need to create TX on Bitcoin network that violate BIP 110, to ensure replay attack doesn't happen.

It would be easy, if people could simply use P2PK, to prevent their coins from moving on BIP-110 chain.
--snip--

I expect there's more wallet that support creating OP_RETURN output with size above 83 bytes, rather than generate P2PK "address" in the wallet or send any amount of Bitcoin to P2PK "address".

Sometime between Aug 8th and Sept 8th give or take a couple days luke introduces the new 110 / knots node software.

New also, new difficulty, new rules, all of the coins luke wants goes to his addresses.

Since it's 100% not BTC at that point it easily gets listed on exchanges and profit.

Whether it works by issuing lots of new coins or steal confiscate from either satoshi/spam UTXO, people could find out easily by using block explorer or inspect the source code with AI. So i doubt he would do such crazy thing, although i could be too naive here.

It's already been shown people that support 110 don't understand how things work in the world of bitcoin.

At this point some of them still seem to think that it's going to activate with massive miner support and that people will fall in line and use it.
Do you really think that it matters what luke does at this point. They are going to keep following him no matter what.

It's a cult of people that want free magical internet money that is setup their way with their rules and their dear leader can do no wrong.

I know I have said it here along with others, it's the internet and we are not your parents it's not our job to stop you from doing something stupid. We can show you you are wrong and with that perhaps save other people. But if you want to give your money away that is on you. It's not like they would have to look for the uxtos. They are going to be told that those coins are going to him for 'development' or 'repayment' or whatever and they are going to give them to him.

-Dave

[stompix]

Someone just pointed out to me that it's actually good scam on lukes part.
Knots stops accepting blocks around Aug 8th. 110 is supposed to be fully activated 30 days later.
Sometime between Aug 8th and Sept 8th give or take a couple days luke introduces the new 110 / knots node software.
New also, new difficulty, new rules, all of the coins luke wants goes to his addresses.

Between the 1st of August and the 8th, nobody will ever care about it anyhow. 
In about 3 days, we will already be below the normal activation.
Also, he doesn't have 2-3 days, he must come with a solution right away, otherwise his chain will be left hanging, and his mempool will be half a giga in days, so he needs to change things that were there since the original client, which will be like his one hundred contradiction already.

Besides, I doubt any reputable exchange will touch the coin in this situation, there is a lot of grey area with chain splits and who owns those coins and some might not want to face a lawsuit involving a few million.

[athanred]

and his mempool will be half a giga in days

No, they keep saying, that there is a lot of spam. You can compare BIP-110 mempool with non-BIP-110 mempool:

BIP-110: https://mempool.kilombino.com/ (25.6 MB)
non-BIP-110: https://mempool.space/ (254 MB)

So, if BIP-110 will have 10x less transactions, then their mempool wouldn't "explode" that fast. And even if it would, then it would simply reflect the value of their coins: if one BIP-110 coin will be worth for example 0.001 BTC, then people could send 1000 sat/vB transactions as well, after splitting their coins.

Anyway, they want to filter the spam, right? Proof of Work is the biggest filter: less blocks, less spam. So, they should be happy, right?

I wonder, if anyone will try to mine empty BIP-110 blocks to "send a message", just like Luke killed CoiledCoin in the past, by doing the same thing. Because no matter if they will change their Proof of Work or not, if they will be in a minority, then that kinds of attacks will be possible. So, if BIP-110 community will make enough people angry, then they can start mining empty blocks, because why not.

[stompix]

and his mempool will be half a giga in days

No, they keep saying, that there is a lot of spam. You can compare BIP-110 mempool with non-BIP-110 mempool:

BIP-110: https://mempool.kilombino.com/ (25.6 MB)
non-BIP-110: https://mempool.space/ (254 MB)

So, if BIP-110 will have 10x less transactions, then their mempool wouldn't "explode" that fast.

The mempool is like that because there is a ton of runes that are minted at 0.10 and never got to actually get confirmed, so it's not like one gets x10 the tx and one just 1x, it's because runes are stuck there with their lower fees.

Look at the latest blocks, there is nowhere near a x10 between them and in the last 5 blocks as we speak 960097 - 960101 "spam" transactions barely make 5% of it. Ocean will be able to mine only 2-3 blocks, even assuming an outrageous 25% rejected transactions they will add 100MB in lost capacity by day.

I wonder, if anyone will try to mine empty BIP-110 blocks to "send a message", just like Luke killed CoiledCoin in the past, by doing the same thing. Because no matter if they will change their Proof of Work or not, if they will be in a minority, then that kinds of attacks will be possible.

No pool will risk a lawsuit for what this madman will call an attack and let all hell loose on it.
You can effectively 51% BCH with 1/10 of the hash Ocean has, and nobody is trying that, it's not worth it and it will just prove their point, that they are being silenced by the reptilians or so.