Pavel Durov said Telegram noncustodial wallet is coming

[PX-Z]

I have tested the wallet several times, the 24 words seed phrase that is generated on the Telegram DeFi wallet is not a BIP39 seed phrase. It remained invalid after using iancoleman BIP39 tool and two wallets for it. It will also be close source which can not make me trust the wallet.

I search and it is a bip39 standard using the bip39 english wordlist and as per there docu as i checked the recovery phrase on the word list and it all exist there.
What could be wrong on iancoleman? Or derivative path issue?

[Zaguru12]

I have tested the wallet several times, the 24 words seed phrase that is generated on the Telegram DeFi wallet is not a BIP39 seed phrase. It remained invalid after using iancoleman BIP39 tool and two wallets for it. It will also be close source which can not make me trust the wallet.

I search and it is a bip39 standard using the bip39 english wordlist and as per there docu as i checked the recovery phrase on the word list and it all exist there.
What could be wrong on iancoleman? Or derivative path issue?

I can confirm this from my end, although I wasn’t sure at first but I seriously remembered that the last time I used the Ton wallet (ton keeper) to be specific it was actually having 24 word seed phrase which supports the 2048 words of the Bip39 protocol. For curiosity sake I actually did import my Ton Keeper 24 word seed phrase into a Bip39 compatible wallet. Although immediately after the recovery it was a new address it generated first and then I did a toggle and saw the old wallet back.

So yes derivation problem might be it, but ton wallet actually supports Bip39 and I think Charles should try it out again

[Charles-Tim]

I search and it is a bip39 standard using the bip39 english wordlist and as per there docu as i checked the recovery phrase on the word list and it all exist there.
What could be wrong on iancoleman? Or derivative path issue?

It is not BIP39.

Electrum has the same words with the BIP39, but not BIP39. They have different derivational paths. Maybe this could be what it is with the Telegram wallet.

Even a wallet can use another way to generate seed phrase with the BIP39 word lists. I can not use such a wallet except Electrum that I know my way around it and as some other wallets like Bluewallet and Cake wallet support its seed phrase.

I can confirm this from my end, although I wasn’t sure at first but I seriously remembered that the last time I used the Ton wallet (ton keeper) to be specific it was actually having 24 word seed phrase which supports the 2048 words of the Bip39 protocol. For curiosity sake I actually did import my Ton Keeper 24 word seed phrase into a Bip39 compatible wallet. Although immediately after the recovery it was a new address it generated first and then I did a toggle and saw the old wallet back.

So yes derivation problem might be it, but ton wallet actually supports Bip39 and I think Charles should try it out again

We are discussing about Telegram wallet, not Ton Keeper.

[nc50lc]

It remained invalid after using iancoleman BIP39 tool and two wallets for it.

What does IanColeman 's BIP39 tool said when you entered the 24-word recovery phrase?

"Invalid Mnemonic" or something else?

Because if it's the former, it calculated that its "checksum" isn't correct.
Even though it has the same wordlist, it doesn't follow BIP39's standard.

That's if it's the error that you got and you typed the words accurately.

[FinneysTrueVision]

It is not BIP39.

Electrum has the same words with the BIP39, but not BIP39. They have different derivational paths. Maybe this could be what it is with the Telegram wallet.

Even a wallet can use another way to generate seed phrase with the BIP39 word lists. I can not use such a wallet except Electrum that I know my way around it and as some other wallets like Bluewallet and Cake wallet support its seed phrase.

The TON chain also has many different address types. For example, when I lookup my address on a block explorer, it says contract type: wallet v5 r1. This wallet can also be restored with an email address.

When trying to restore it in Trust Wallet, it gave an error that it was an invalid secret phrase. It is probably some proprietary system that is unique to the TON blockchain and Telegram DeFi accounts.

[Charles-Tim]

It remained invalid after using iancoleman BIP39 tool and two wallets for it.

What does IanColeman 's BIP39 tool said when you entered the 24-word recovery phrase?

"Invalid Mnemonic" or something else?

Because if it's the former, it calculated that its "checksum" isn't correct.
Even though it has the same wordlist, it doesn't follow BIP39's standard.

That's if it's the error that you got and you typed the words accurately.

It displayed 'invalid mnemonic' on iancoleman BIP39 tool.
It displayed 'no wallet found' on Bluewallet.
It displayed 'bitcoin mnemonic has incorrect format' on Cake.
It displayed invalid 'checksum' on Unstoppable.

[Zaguru12]

When trying to restore it in Trust Wallet, it gave an error that it was an invalid secret phrase. It is probably some proprietary system that is unique to the TON blockchain and Telegram DeFi accounts.

I can confirm this too and all what Charles-Tim also said, I actually tried to recover the wallet in BlueWallet and unstoppable wallet and then it actually gave me responses like what Charles had too, this is the invalid checksum from unstoppable Wallet

Then I tried it again on another chain like a Solana based wallet which actually usually recovers bip39 supported wallets and it also couldn’t recover it and gave me the response as invalid recovery phrase

Lastly I was only able to recover it on a Bitget web3 wallet and I think it gave the response that I think confirms that the phrases might be bip39 but it doesn’t supports bip39 because it’s says “it’s doesn’t supports other chain because of incompatible seed phrase”

Also it requires email for passcode recovery and this step cannot be skipped which is a let off for me, all this indicates a very bad wallet features in my opinion. Not that wallet which actually do not support bip39 are bad though but many flaws on this one like anyone having access to your Telegram account can recover that wallet with your email easily which makes it’s too centralized and the added fact that it’s even closed source

Plus should we say they lied in their F&Q because they said it supports Bip39 which we just proved wrong

[TryNinja]

I have tested the wallet several times, the 24 words seed phrase that is generated on the Telegram DeFi wallet is not a BIP39 seed phrase. It remained invalid after using iancoleman BIP39 tool and two wallets for it. It will also be close source which can not make me trust the wallet.

What is also the proof that it is noncustodial when Pavel Durov said:

It uses the same wordlist, but they do things differently.

You can find the technical docs here: https://docs.ton.org/contracts/standard/wallets/mnemonics

e.g PBKDF2 with the salt "TON seed version" (or "TON seed version" if no password is used); "Random mnemonic phrases are generated until PBKDF2 yields a seed whose first byte matches the expected version (0 for the 'fast seed' parameters, 1 for the 'seed version' parameters)"

Same ingredients but two different recipes.

[nc50lc]

What does IanColeman 's BIP39 tool said when you entered the 24-word recovery phrase?

"Invalid Mnemonic" or something else?

Because if it's the former, it calculated that its "checksum" isn't correct.
Even though it has the same wordlist, it doesn't follow BIP39's standard.

It displayed 'invalid mnemonic' on iancoleman BIP39 tool.
It displayed 'no wallet found' on Bluewallet.
It displayed 'bitcoin mnemonic has incorrect format' on Cake.
It displayed invalid 'checksum' on Unstoppable.

Great, you've tested it in multiple clients.

This firmly confirmed that it's not a BIP39 seed phrase since those errors indicated a checksum mismatch
which is the first error-check that the wallet does with the seed phrase.
(excluding BlueWallet that returned with its generic "no wallet found" message)