Existing caste system and classism in the 21st century.

[Dreadboost]

Before I start I'll would like to tell the Indian brothers that this topic is presented through the experience of John Kiriakou. Thank you. THE STORY

In brief, Caste system is a social structure where a person's status is assigned at birth and is usually very difficult or impossible to change. While Classism is prejudice, discrimination, or unequal treatment based on a person's social or economic class.

I was going through a podcast today and came across John Kiriakou speaking about his experience when he visited India. He spoke of the caste system still existing and how limited for someone with lower status to transition.  

The caste system does not help society to grow because it affects who these people marry, where they get jobs, medical treatment, education, etc. I am not supporting classism, but I think it is much better to caste system.  

Caste system is inherited by birth, while classism is due to economic and social factors. In classism, the individual is subject to move to an upper class after attaining higher education, outstanding career opportunities, or being a successful entrepreneur, and through inheritance. The setbacks people still affected by the caste system face are that, even if they want to change their status, the system doesn't let them. If they can't go to a good school, how will they get higher education? If they can't get good jobs, how will they afford to get professional medical care and pay for tuition fees?  In other words, from generation to generation to come, a family under the lower status will forever be in that status/poor forever.

The experience of John Kiriakou, which he shared in that video, made it clear to us how the caste system and classism have had a lasting influence on the  economical and social life of the current generation and the next generations to come if it is not stopped.

[Swordsoffreedom]

Classism create very strong barrier. A poor person, regardless of caste, will find it very difficult to achieve social mobility if he does not get good education or opportunities.

I do not know what the situation in India but the most important thing is to create a society where the value of a person will never be determined by his birth or family. It will be determined by his character and work. Historical injustice need to be addressed but at the same time policy should be such that truly poor and backward people benefit most.

[RGBTC]

The experience of John Kiriakou, which he shared in that video, made it clear to us how the caste system and classism have had a lasting influence on the  economical and social life of the current generation and the next generations to come if it is not stopped.

If their leaders have to "survive" with such a system, don't expect it to be abandoned. I thought this system was only practiced by people who adhere to certain religious teachings and the way to escape was by converting, but apparently not.

Caste is traditionally associated with Hinduism, but is more pervasive in extent: an estimated 98% of contemporary Indians, including Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, and Jains, identify with a caste system.

They really need to leave the country (if only they have access to interstate crossing facilities). I hope I'm wrong.

[Mpamaegbu]

In brief, Caste system is a social structure where a person's status is assigned at birth and is usually very difficult or impossible to change. While Classism is prejudice, discrimination, or unequal treatment based on a person's social or economic class.

Nigeria also has the obnoxious caste system among those in the eastern part of the country. Most people who still practise it till date may not even know the origin of such cultural idiocy. I say it mildly by calling it idiotic. While I may understand that people can discriminate others on the basis of wealth or class, it beats me hallow that they can do that based on people's birth. Nobody chooses where they're born or into what family they're born. It's the same attitude with some members here against others they perceive are from underdeveloped or "lesser" countries than theirs.

Back to Nigeria – By caste birth, I'm not referring to something as royal birth. People get stigmatized because they're born into a family with such stigma of birth, and the circle keeps repeating itself. In Nigeria, it's called Osu system. Those who even discriminate against them, in most cases, aren't even better than those they're discriminating against. Anyway, that Osu practice isn't as strong as it was a few decades ago. Modernism is having its influence gradually on it now.

[Benhouse]

Before I start I'll would like to tell the Indian brothers that this topic is presented through the experience of John Kiriakou. Thank you. THE STORY

In brief, Caste system is a social structure where a person's status is assigned at birth and is usually very difficult or impossible to change. While Classism is prejudice, discrimination, or unequal treatment based on a person's social or economic class.

I was going through a podcast today and came across John Kiriakou speaking about his experience when he visited India. He spoke of the caste system still existing and how limited for someone with lower status to transition.  

The caste system does not help society to grow because it affects who these people marry, where they get jobs, medical treatment, education, etc. I am not supporting classism, but I think it is much better to caste system.  

Caste system is inherited by birth, while classism is due to economic and social factors. In classism, the individual is subject to move to an upper class after attaining higher education, outstanding career opportunities, or being a successful entrepreneur, and through inheritance. The setbacks people still affected by the caste system face are that, even if they want to change their status, the system doesn't let them. If they can't go to a good school, how will they get higher education? If they can't get good jobs, how will they afford to get professional medical care and pay for tuition fees?  In other words, from generation to generation to come, a family under the lower status will forever be in that status/poor forever.

The experience of John Kiriakou, which he shared in that video, made it clear to us how the caste system and classism have had a lasting influence on the  economical and social life of the current generation and the next generations to come if it is not stopped.

Good topic. I agree with the distinction, but I'd push back on how mobile class really is. On paper class is open. In practice the OECD found it takes four to five generations for a poor family to reach average income in most rich countries. So "study hard and move up" is true for individuals and mostly false for populations. The gate isn't locked, it's just very heavy.

Where you're right is the marker. Money eventually erases class. The second generation gets the school, the accent, the network, and nobody knows where the family started. Caste doesn't work that way. The surname and the village stay attached to you whatever you earn, which is why a wealthy Dalit is often still treated as one.

That's also why it travels. The Cisco case in California in 2020 put caste discrimination in a Silicon Valley HR complaint, ten thousand kilometers from any village. Class doesn't do that.

Not my place to say how India should fix it. But I've never heard anyone argue they'd rather be born into the caste version.

[Hypnotizer]

-snip

It’s very pathetic that something like this still exists in today's society. Both classism and the caste system are certainly not a good thing to start with but for the caste system it’s would definitely hinder economic and society growth and development in such areas that still practice it.

With the lots of changes that occur in India because of the British influence, I’d thought this system isn’t supposed to still be in existence in India again.  Your birth place or family shouldn’t determine who you’ll become in the future.

Classism might push someone obsessed with moving to the next social circle to start a business or career that might succeed though, I’ve heard of  cases like that but generally it’s a bad thing for a society and sadly most countries especially in Africa (from what I know) have classism, thereby limiting some potentials in their youths from the lower classes.

[Fortify]

It really does seem a bizarre and alien concept to most people outside of India, especially to those in places like Europe and the Americas. Classism is sometimes connected with the choices of our parents, in terms of whether they were clever or capable enough to move up the financial ladder with all their years to do so. It feels from your description like the caste system doesn't even offer the most basic opportunities, if you're from a certain caste you may never get an education in childhood which could doom you for life to work a certain type of job. That is absolutely disgraceful really and the Indian government should make it their sole mission to break down this system, at the very least by offering and even enforcing a better level of education. That at least would give kids a fighting chance of breaking free from such shackles.

[Zlantann]

After listening to John Kiriakou briefly, I am pained that this kind of inhumane treatment still exists in India. And the worst part of it is that it is happening in a country where these so-called lower-class people are also citizens. It is tolerable for someone to be discriminated against when he is not a citizen of a country.

From my observations, these restaurant managers identified that the driver was from a low caste due to the colour of his skin. People with lighter skin are treated better and have more opportunities than others in some countries. It is believed that those with dark skin should work outdoors because their skin can withstand harsh conditions. While those with lighter skin are destined to work in high-paying and less stressful indoor jobs. What it means is that, regardless of how hard a dark-skinned person works or how educated he might be, there is some level he might never attain. This will lead to lose in ideas and creativity since many talents would not be allowed to grow as the system limits the growth of a certain class.

I have never read about a dark-skinned prime minister or president of India.

[Mr Reporter]

I do think the main difference is that classism, although unfair, allows improving lives with education, businesses, or even hard work, and the caste system is harsher because it decides one's status from birth. And no matter how valuable and capable they may be, they might be refused by society.

In some parts of the Osu System in Nigerian they do similar practices, but over the years it has become less common to practice. I do belive that no one should be treated or judged base on the family they were brought up from or into. Character should speak for an individual let it be valued for what they do contribute for the society, not over what they do not have control over.

[Byebyebtc]

The experience of John Kiriakou, which he shared in that video, made it clear to us how the caste system and classism have had a lasting influence on the  economical and social life of the current generation and the next generations to come if it is not stopped.

I saw this topic and i got to make more researches about it. I would say that both are bad, but you still have a chance to do better in classism, but for caste  system you are limited right from child birth, So with that knowledge you get to understand that caste is whey worse than classism.

You know sadly classism unknowingly is like a norm in today's world, people are being discriminated every day as a result of the persons social or financial class, and some how it has turned to a way or motivation to those individuals to try harder, so in this present generation i will not look at classism to be too deep.
But caste system is on another different level, the fact that you are limited as a result of the family you came out from is diabolical. and i got to know that government are doing things to stop it, but i really feel they should get serious about it, because whether they like it or not it will still affect the country at large and limit them as well.

[Dreadboost]

~snip

Good topic. I agree with the distinction, but I'd push back on how mobile class really is. On paper class is open. In practice the OECD found it takes four to five generations for a poor family to reach average income in most rich countries. So "study hard and move up" is true for individuals and mostly false for populations. The gate isn't locked, it's just very heavy.

Where you're right is the marker. Money eventually erases class. The second generation gets the school, the accent, the network, and nobody knows where the family started. Caste doesn't work that way. The surname and the village stay attached to you whatever you earn, which is why a wealthy Dalit is often still treated as one.

That's also why it travels. The Cisco case in California in 2020 put caste discrimination in a Silicon Valley HR complaint, ten thousand kilometers from any village. Class doesn't do that.

Not my place to say how India should fix it. But I've never heard anyone argue they'd rather be born into the caste version.

Thank you. I am skeptical about the number of years it takes for a family to move from a poor family to an average family. I believe in this 21st century, it is different. The internet, Web 3, AI, and social media have paved the way for even the lower class and those damaged by the caste system to have a better life if grace found them. 

It doesnt matter if, after having an upper identity, people in the region dont regard the family of the lower class, even if they are rich. The solution isn't to stay in that environment. For someone who is discriminated against due to family background in caste lifestyle, fly out of the country. Go to a society where the people dont practise such things and see how life becomes better for them.

We aren't in a position to advise a country as a whole, but we can create more global awareness about this issue. And to be honest, it is not only happening in India. Most tribes in my country still adhere to the same practice.

[EluguHcman]

The setbacks people still affected by the caste system face are that, even if they want to change their status, the system doesn't let them. If they can't go to a good school, how will they get higher education? If they can't get good jobs, how will they afford to get professional medical care and pay for tuition fees?  In other words, from generation to generation to come, a family under the lower status will forever be in that status/poor forever.

This segregation kind of life in that particular place (region) of concern is certainly not a strange one but a mystery because, that which you described as classism is already a dimension in life that all fingers not being equal is based on individuals relevances in the society.

I want to believe that there are also schoschools, carriers and medical cares the commoners can still afford and does not have to be in the first-class before they can survive.

I have also learnt about a traditional system in a region where orphans are treated as outcasts and are restricted from participating in the community affairs and can not even trade with the people of the communities.

Life is full of mysteries and classicism.

[Accardo]

The Caste system and Classism are almost indistinguishable, in the class system, the upper-class or the 1% are all hereditary, Rockefeller, Carnegie, JP Morgan, Rothchild etc, all came from a family tree that has remained in the Upper-class for ages, when you're born in this above listed family, you automatically belong to the upper class, you don't have to work for it. Similarly, in the Caste system, the Brahmins in India, which is the highest rank in this system, which comprises of priests, teachers, and guardians of the sacred knowledge they do have higher opportunities, than those in the Shudras or Dalits, the lowest level of the cast system. Now try to link the Shudras, and Dalits to the lowest level of the Class system; the working poor and the underclass. You'd find the similarity, these set of people do almost a similar kind of jobs, sweatshops. The terms are just different, but same context. Great thread however.

[lombok]

The Caste system and Classism are almost indistinguishable, in the class system, the upper-class or the 1% are all hereditary, Rockefeller, Carnegie, JP Morgan, Rothchild etc, all came from a family tree that has remained in the Upper-class for ages, when you're born in this above listed family, you automatically belong to the upper class, you don't have to work for it. Similarly, in the Caste system, the Brahmins in India, which is the highest rank in this system, which comprises of priests, teachers, and guardians of the sacred knowledge they do have higher opportunities, than those in the Shudras or Dalits, the lowest level of the cast system. Now try to link the Shudras, and Dalits to the lowest level of the Class system; the working poor and the underclass. You'd find the similarity, these set of people do almost a similar kind of jobs, sweatshops. The terms are just different, but same context. Great thread however.

Admittedly, such comparison of social orders has demonstrated a tendency towards structural inequality that has repeatedly happened during human history. The financial wealth is also an assurance of hereditary power without the need to toil, as in the determination of status by birth in traditional systems. The difference in legitimacy of the doctrine of trust and ownership of assets does not change its main effect on it being a major limitation to the mobility of the lowest labor groups.

[Spaceman1000$]

Before I start I'll would like to tell the Indian brothers that this topic is presented through the experience of John Kiriakou. Thank you. THE STORY

In brief, Caste system is a social structure where a person's status is assigned at birth and is usually very difficult or impossible to change. While Classism is prejudice, discrimination, or unequal treatment based on a person's social or economic class.

I was going through a podcast today and came across John Kiriakou speaking about his experience when he visited India. He spoke of the caste system still existing and how limited for someone with lower status to transition.  

The caste system does not help society to grow because it affects who these people marry, where they get jobs, medical treatment, education, etc. I am not supporting classism, but I think it is much better to caste system.  

Caste system is inherited by birth, while classism is due to economic and social factors. In classism, the individual is subject to move to an upper class after attaining higher education, outstanding career opportunities, or being a successful entrepreneur, and through inheritance. The setbacks people still affected by the caste system face are that, even if they want to change their status, the system doesn't let them. If they can't go to a good school, how will they get higher education? If they can't get good jobs, how will they afford to get professional medical care and pay for tuition fees?  In other words, from generation to generation to come, a family under the lower status will forever be in that status/poor forever.

The experience of John Kiriakou, which he shared in that video, made it clear to us how the caste system and classism have had a lasting influence on the  economical and social life of the current generation and the next generations to come if it is not stopped.

The storyline is really fascinating, in all my life I've never seen this level of classism to your own people. India is part of the country of the world that have shown that population is a great disadvantage to some persons, because make it make sense, how can you see your fellow citizen that you share patrimony with, yet he does not have the privilege to enjoy some setting lifestyle in your own country, Even when the the financial stability is there or an opportunity is being presented for that person to enjoy some certain privileges yet he cannot.

[Dogedegen]

The experience of John Kiriakou, which he shared in that video, made it clear to us how the caste system and classism have had a lasting influence on the  economical and social life of the current generation and the next generations to come if it is not stopped.

The Caste system I understand because in some places like that it is true that it still exists, but who is to blame for that? Is there somebody like a superior authority doing enforcement or is it the sum of the choices of most of the people in that area? It is the people who make these decisions, there is no central ruler that is punishing people who associate with others from different classes.

When it comes to the topic of classism, you are giving it more importance than it has in the real world. Again I repeat there is no system that is enforcing anything at all in a capitalistic world, it is not like someone is forcing you to stay where you are. It is just a consequence of many social and economic differences, but that is all that there is. Many people in the higher classes turn out to be uneducated and incompetent people, and many people from the lower classes become the best in a particular industry. So while it can create disadvantages, it does not determine what a person can become. If you think about the world that we live in, access to knowledge has never been easier and cheaper. There are so many online platforms that provide cheap resources for education and many even do it for free. So please please should not blame the system for their laziness, we must be responsible for our choices and actions. Even the most poor people have plenty of time to educate themselves and improve their situation on these platforms, but they do not do it and instead they play mobile games or fight with others on Facebook..

[Accardo]

Admittedly, such comparison of social orders has demonstrated a tendency towards structural inequality that has repeatedly happened during human history. The financial wealth is also an assurance of hereditary power without the need to toil, as in the determination of status by birth in traditional systems. The difference in legitimacy of the doctrine of trust and ownership of assets does not change its main effect on it being a major limitation to the mobility of the lowest labor groups.

The structure never changes that easily, it could take centuries for a family in the working poor to transcend into the upper class division of the socioeconomic status. The difference being that classism allows for movement to the top or below, we hardly get to see the 1% falling below the upper middle class.