[BitList Analytics] Signature banned users and their data (before and after ban)

[Findingnemo]

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Mods job would be much easier if they were actively participating in the discussions going on there, which is not usually the case here. For example, if you are a gambling board mod that follows football and is active in let's say Champions League thread, it would be very easy to detect and delete shitposts. And once people see that shitposts are deleted, they will likely adjust and start making more thoughtful posts. Or at least I hope they would. For this to work, forum would need more mods though.

In the current situation, a moderator may receive a report in a thread they not only don't follow, but may not even know anything about the sport in question. So of course it's difficult for them to determine which posts deserve to be deleted and which don't.

A mod's job description is to moderate their section, not just handle the reports actively. The number of posts being created on Bitcointalk would require at least a dozen active moderators to keep it spam-free, as of now current mods would handle the reports and lock the threads once it reaches enough replies not go on and moderate threads on their own if I am not wrong.

[bangjoe]

The More Here BitList the cooler the function, my good update Mr. TryNinja, with this it will be easy to see how the activities of the members who have been banned signature, especially towards the end of their ban, we can review it again whether there is enough change or not easily, and the cool thing is to be able to compare after and before.

BTW I already made a translation for this proud update in our local board. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5589794.0


Of course I agree with Lucius. +1

[Alpha Marine]

I guess, this is time for campaign managers to remove the mandatory rule for gambling posts.

Five to ten posts a week in gambling is not an excuse for spam in my opinion. Even without the mandatory gambling post, I would still post in gambling because there are so many things to discuss, especially during a football season, since I focus more on sports betting. Even if it was not mandatory, those who want to spam will still use it to spam as long as the post counts for the week's payment. I can even make 15 posts a week in gambling just by having a genuine conversation without spamming.

[Odohu]

A mod's job description is to moderate their section, not just handle the reports actively. The number of posts being created on Bitcointalk would require at least a dozen active moderators to keep it spam-free, as of now current mods would handle the reports and lock the threads once it reaches enough replies not go on and moderate threads on their own if I am not wrong.

There are some moderators that are not limited to certain boards, those are called Global moderators. I don't know how the forum is configured but I feel that when a post is reported from a particular board, the primary moderators of that board will first get notified after which there may be a repository where global moderators will be able to see such reports. This is my guess though.

Nevertheless, the moderators work is not an easy one, a look at the modlog will give idea of what they battle daily. So policing the entire forum is requires extra hands which is why I commend the job Nutildah is doing which will encourage everyone to sit up and be more productive.

[Findingnemo]

A mod's job description is to moderate their section, not just handle the reports actively. The number of posts being created on Bitcointalk would require at least a dozen active moderators to keep it spam-free, as of now current mods would handle the reports and lock the threads once it reaches enough replies not go on and moderate threads on their own if I am not wrong.

There are some moderators that are not limited to certain boards, those are called Global moderators. I don't know how the forum is configured but I feel that when a post is reported from a particular board, the primary moderators of that board will first get notified after which there may be a repository where global moderators will be able to see such reports. This is my guess though.

Nevertheless, the moderators work is not an easy one, a look at the modlog will give idea of what they battle daily. So policing the entire forum is requires extra hands which is why I commend the job Nutildah is doing which will encourage everyone to sit up and be more productive.

Global mods can moderate the entire forum and some other mods may have limited feature like moving or trashing a topic but can't delete individual posts but that's not what I am talking about, if we need to read all the posts that is generated on the gambling board alone that will require more new mods or the existing ones can only moderate the reported posts and not beyond that due to the workload.

[joker_josue]

We've all looked at the Stake campaign as the worst breeding ground for spam, but Rainbet seems to be even worse. Quite dominant on the list, at least judging by the avatars.

There is a big group of accounts that were sig banned while wearing Rainbet sig and avatar, but they weren't actually part of Rainbet signature campaign (at least not bitcointalk one led by Hhampuz), that makes it look much worse for Rainbet.

Perhaps we should consider banning avatars as well.
Because an avatar, despite being just an image, can be used as a tool to harm others.

[Welsh]

Perhaps we should consider banning avatars as well.
Because an avatar, despite being just an image, can be used as a tool to harm others.

Avatars are hidden on topics of those that are sigbanned as per:

Note that I just now made a couple of adjustments:
 - Sigbans now also hide avatars, personal text, and website icons next to posts.
 - Sigbans are now listed in the modlog.

I believe it still shows on their profile page, just not on topics.

[joker_josue]

However, another idea: indicate the member's level.

There could then be a graph showing the user levels, indicating where there were more bans.

[nutildah]

Mods job would be much easier if they were actively participating in the discussions going on there, which is not usually the case here. For example, if you are a gambling board mod that follows football and is active in let's say Champions League thread, it would be very easy to detect and delete shitposts. And once people see that shitposts are deleted, they will likely adjust and start making more thoughtful posts. Or at least I hope they would. For this to work, forum would need more mods though.

Aside from being a large amount of additional work, the nature of categorizing what is a shitpost or not has always been at least somewhat subjective and hard to astutely qualify. This new system is based on a combination of metrics that, when put together, is meant to lead those with an understanding of how the forum operates to similar conclusion(s) about a poster's recent body of work. Still, nothing is ever absolute.

[Rikafip]

I understand the sentiment, but I would like to ask you to keep reporting, even if it feels pointless. It does help us.

Lately I limited myself to paid pools in the Gambling board, where spam and shitposts are practically nonexistent, so I don't even have the opportunity to report them. 

The number of posts being created on Bitcointalk would require at least a dozen active moderators to keep it spam-free, as of now current mods would handle the reports and lock the threads once it reaches enough replies not go on and moderate threads on their own if I am not wrong.

This system would definitely require many more mods than there are now. Maybe not a dozen, but definitely more than a few.

[Webetcoins]

- Daily avg (120d before) and daily avg (after ban)
- Change in daily avg (after ban vs 120d before)

- Activity chart (120d before vs after ban)

Changes on above criteria must have to happen, right? Otherwise, what is the point of signature ban.

When learning and improving posts and posting habits, there would be definite changes on daily average and activity AFAIC.

[Satofan44]

This system would definitely require many more mods than there are now. Maybe not a dozen, but definitely more than a few.

Not really, the higher ranking staff members that can moderate the whole forum are simply very lazy and passive. 2 global moderators could keep this whole forum clean if they were effective and proactive, instead they barely do anything at all. How many signature bans were issued in the current year before Nutildah got the ability to do so? Do you think that no staff member had the ability to issue one? It is not because they couldn't do something about these things for whatever reason, it is because they did not want to do it.

- Daily avg (120d before) and daily avg (after ban)
- Change in daily avg (after ban vs 120d before)

- Activity chart (120d before vs after ban)

Changes on above criteria must have to happen, right? Otherwise, what is the point of signature ban.

When learning and improving posts and posting habits, there would be definite changes on daily average and activity AFAIC.

You can literally improve your post quality in the same day by putting in effort, don't hallucinate like it takes some kind of herculean effort as if you were building a quantum computer. Providing false justifications for a strong decrease in activity which proves that you were only posting to get paid will not improve your chance of avoiding the next ban. Either improve now, or you will be banned again.

[Webetcoins]

You can literally improve your post quality in the same day by putting in effort, don't hallucinate like it takes some kind of herculean effort as if you were building a quantum computer.

Not everyone is same and not everyone as genius as you which is the problem here.

[Satofan44]

You can literally improve your post quality in the same day by putting in effort, don't hallucinate like it takes some kind of herculean effort as if you were building a quantum computer.

Not everyone as genius as you which is the problem here.

Then simply don't participate in signature campaigns if you feel you are not competent enough to write high quality posts. What makes you think that you are entitled to anything here? You have 2 options:

1) Stay and continue to post without participating in a signature campaign.
2) Leave if you feel you are not up to the task of rapidly improving your posting quality.

This forum does not owe you anything, and neither does anyone else. You are not entitled to earn money here, or anywhere else for that matter. Things are that simple -- there is no need to provide excuses, justifications or anything else. Either you can do it or you can't. Excuses will not improve your chances of avoiding another ban.

[Webetcoins]

This forum does not owe you anything, and neither does anyone else. You are not entitled to earn money here, or anywhere else for that matter. Things are that simple -- there is no need to provide excuses, justifications or anything else. Either you can do it or you can't. Excuses will not improve your chances of avoiding another ban.

Yeah, now I do not have to prolong or shorten my posts with the fear of rating of my campaign and now I do not have any limit to fulfil what my campaign demands.

It is too good to chit chat rather than following and writing on soccer.

[MarryWithBTC]

You can literally improve your post quality in the same day by putting in effort, don't hallucinate like it takes some kind of herculean effort as if you were building a quantum computer. Providing false justifications for a strong decrease in activity which proves that you were only posting to get paid will not improve your chance of avoiding the next ban. Either improve now, or you will be banned again.

To high ranking members, improving post quality is more of decision making than learning.

Decision to read previous posts in the thread before contributing;
decision to improve the average time invested in making a post;

Some posts are so hasty that you will think the posters were in a posting contest that rewards the fastest posters.

I imagine if the posters realize that some persons are actually going to read these posts and make meanings out of them.

[notocactus]

Some suggestions

• Filter for active and inactive users after their signature bans.
• Filter for at least three periods: before 2015 (the last time forum was hacked), merit system kick off on 24 January 2018, and a massive increase of source merits on 6 July 2021. The first two timepoints are for old-era users and new-era users, while the third time point is for possible farmers ranked up by merit abuse.
• You can play around with the last two timepoints like account registration dates, merited accounts after those timepoints.
• How many users that used to be the future of Bitcointalk was banned?

Another thing to consider would be whether people who receive signature bans should have all of their sMerit drained to zero, that would automatically prevent an additional abuse vector.

They deserve to get more severe bans but I disagree with you by draining all their merits to 0. It's like "merit nuke" and theymos will likely not approve that. I suggest something like more severe bans but different than yours, there.

read more there

Let's create a community-led/ reported thread to demerit them in decentralized way.

Merited shitposts are easily to determine and community can easily agree with each other, it's more easily than plagiarism or AI checks.

It's pretty easy!

There is currently no such thing as a "demerit". I'm hoping that the positive merits alone will be fine. I could add demerits pretty easily later on if necessary, though.

theymos actually used demerit for severe merit abuse cases in the past but I saw something. If a 50 or 100 merits is considered as abuse, why accounts with shitposts ranked up to Hero or Legendary ranks from mostly shitposts can not be considered as abuse.

Historically merits (earned ones) can be reverted by theymos. He did it with some transactions years ago when one merit source used sourced merits inappropriately. By reverting those merit transactions, the receivers had both earned merits and sendable merits drop back. In such scarce cases, both can be doable.

theymos did it with an account deMerit and there are 17 negative merit transactions.

In blockchain definition, the Bitcointalk Merit blockchain is centralized and reversible.

Code:

1587146876	-44	0.msg0	0	1724596
1549404431	-2	0.msg0	0	92110
1549404430	-5	0.msg0	0	81995
1549404430	-2	0.msg0	0	1316028
1549404430	-9	0.msg0	0	290351
1549404430	-1	0.msg0	0	289011
1549404430	-9	0.msg0	0	249872
1549404430	-7	0.msg0	0	249436
1549404430	-8	0.msg0	0	165478
1549404430	-2	0.msg0	0	9645
1549404430	-10	0.msg0	0	358020
1549404430	-10	0.msg0	0	15728
1549404430	-10	0.msg0	0	2536607
1549404430	-4	0.msg0	0	1246188
1549404430	-10	0.msg0	0	355462
1549404430	-10	0.msg0	0	92110
1549404430	-5	0.msg0	0	2472107

Another case is only for sendable merits like we see in the warning after clicking on Merit, it is attached in OP too, it has never happened in the forum since the merit system kick-off.

To high ranking members, improving post quality is more of decision making than learning.

Decision to read previous posts in the thread before contributing;
decision to improve the average time invested in making a post

The decision is

• Stop being a spammer.
• As simple as that.

But there is a challenge for them: how do they rank up will decide who they are now. If they ranked up by spamming, now they are mostly unable to write quality posts.

What they can try is writing shit posts but expand it as longest as possible to cover pointless posts and hope that readers will think their posts are quality and constructive.

[virasog]

What they can try is writing shit posts but expand it as longest as possible to cover pointless posts and hope that readers will think their posts are quality and constructive.

Would writing long and meaningless posts save you? I don't think it should be the case but this user LUCKMCFLY is still surviving, maybe because he used to write half pages paragraphs before (starting from here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1153977;sa=showPosts;start=9300) and yet still saved maybe because of this even though his score isn't good too 

User ID: 1153977

Score: Needs Improvement (Lowest 10% of active posters)

[ryzaadit]

Not sure, it's a bug or a mistake.

I found an account with "Unknown user" and his profile ID; 2692993


At the time checking to make some data on my Local: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5589754.msg66992876#msg66992876.

Search the ID on Bitlish can't find the account; however the search is directing me to a post: https://bitlist.co/post/2692993
In BPIP, can search the account: https://bpip.org/Profile?id=2692993
I also found his account on Bitcointalk: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2692993

[snipie]

I guess, this is time for campaign managers to remove the mandatory rule for gambling posts.

Five to ten posts a week in gambling is not an excuse for spam in my opinion. Even without the mandatory gambling post, I would still post in gambling because there are so many things to discuss, especially during a football season, since I focus more on sports betting. Even if it was not mandatory, those who want to spam will still use it to spam as long as the post counts for the week's payment. I can even make 15 posts a week in gambling just by having a genuine conversation without spamming.

Choosing where to post and selecting one or ten sections to post on should not be a crime.
I criticised in the past the mandatory posts in some sections especially when it is +15 posts a week in a specific section especially when the member is not used to post there. It means simply force them to use AI or copy paste other posts with modification to bypass that. It is not permitted of course. Nothing will change in the future in my opinion without regulations.
In my case, I shifted over the years from general discussions and meta mainly to the speculation and gambling then gambling discussions because of the toxicity of the forum members there. At least discussing sports is being done in a respectable way.