Soon to be college grad in need of advice- what's the deal with Bitcoin?

[SpontaneousDream]

Hi all,

A friend introduced me to Bitcoin the other day and it sparked my interest. Is this the real thing? Should I treat it as more of an investment or will it actually be useful to my everyday life? What would cause Bitcoin to lose much of its value? Can governments actually stop it/regulate it? What's the best way for me to understand the concept?

I'm a soon to be college graduate with about 15k in debt that I need to pay off (should be able to do it within a year), should I stay away from Bitcoin for now? Also, I plan on traveling around the world for a while after my debts are paid off, will Bitcoin be used for this?

Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?

Thanks!

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[str4wm4n]

there's enough information on this forum for you to answer all your questions and more without having to make a new thread...

[jonald_fyookball]

Hi all,

A friend introduced me to Bitcoin the other day and it sparked my interest. Is this the real thing? Should I treat it as more of an investment or will it actually be useful to my everyday life? What would cause Bitcoin to lose much of its value? Can governments actually stop it/regulate it? What's the best way for me to understand the concept?

I'm a soon to be college graduate with about 15k in debt that I need to pay off (should be able to do it within a year), should I stay away from Bitcoin for now? Also, I plan on traveling around the world for a while after my debts are paid off, will Bitcoin be used for this?

Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?

Thanks!

It's the real thing.  Could have a huge return on investment, but nothing is certain and
The timeframe is unknown and depends on many factors.  Many helpful YouTube videos
Are out there to explain the concept.  You definitely will want to do a bit of research
On security before you invest.  IF you know what you are doing, it is very secure.

[freedomno1]

Hi all,

A friend introduced me to Bitcoin the other day and it sparked my interest. Is this the real thing? Should I treat it as more of an investment or will it actually be useful to my everyday life? What would cause Bitcoin to lose much of its value? Can governments actually stop it/regulate it? What's the best way for me to understand the concept?

I'm a soon to be college graduate with about 15k in debt that I need to pay off (should be able to do it within a year), should I stay away from Bitcoin for now? Also, I plan on traveling around the world for a while after my debts are paid off, will Bitcoin be used for this?

Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?

Thanks!

Yes it is the real thing
Treat it as both an investment and a gradual change to your everyday life as it gets more adopted
Value would drop if something superior was created
Governments can regulate it at exchanges but not destroy it without destroying the internet itself as it is decentralized
Best way is through Satoshi Nakamotos Whitepaper.
https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Debt is something you should pay off but at the highest interest rates first
Investing in Bitcoin can speed up the process possibly of removing your debt if you can hold a time horizon of one year
Pending past results, since we cannot predict the future it is hard to tell but it would be a good time to get in as any now.

Very secure the weakest link in the system is you Human Errors

[semaforo]

  You can buy plane tickets with bitcoin- good prices on destinia.com

  Bitcoin is not an investment- it is a way to get out of the utter corruption of the current financial swamp. Seriously, just using dollars might go down in history as criminal- just because everyne is doing it doesn't make it right. It is our moral responsibility to avoid supportig the power of elite bankers who are using the labor of the oppressed for extravagant and luxurious life styles.

    You have to patronize bitcoin businesses and help the network grow, and the value of bitcoin will grow with it. You can put off paying your loans- every country in the world has done it.

http://www.amazon.com/This-Time-Different-Centuries-Financial/dp/0691152640

[hello_good_sir]

I've been using bitcoin for three years now, and following it before then.

Is this the real thing?

Today I got a check in the mail for $30k from my credit union, the proceeds from selling a fairly large portion of my bitcoin holdings.  It doesn't get more real than that.

Should I treat it as more of an investment or will it actually be useful to my everyday life?

Bitcoin was designed with certain properties that make it very similar to gold and other precious metals.  If you understand why gold is valuable (few do) then you will understand why bitcoin is valuable.  Based on its use as an investment we can expect the price per bitcoin to reach somewhere between $10k to $100k.  I believe that this will happen over the next 20 years.  However I think that the price will actually be higher, because of its non-investment uses.

Useful in your everyday life?  Some people are finding it useful in their everyday lives.  I haven't really had that experience yet.  However, as time goes on more and more infrastructure will be built, making bitcoin more and more useful.

If bitcoin starts to become widely used then the price per bitcoin may climb into the millions.  If this happens it won't be for a long time, at least a couple of generations.  Maybe it will happen before I die, maybe it won't.

What would cause Bitcoin to lose much of its value? Can governments actually stop it/regulate it?

Government hostility would suppress its value.  A currency is less valuable if you can't use it without risking prison.  Can it be shut down?  That is debatable and kind of a big topic that would be hard to explain to a newbie.  I feel confident enough in bitcoin that I am keeping the majority of my wealth in bitcoin.

What's the best way for me to understand the concept?

Figure out why gold is valuable (hint: fungibility, scarcity, and convenience).  Then imagine that you could send gold over the internet (very convenient!).

I'm a soon to be college graduate with about 15k in debt that I need to pay off (should be able to do it within a year), should I stay away from Bitcoin for now?

I think that bitcoin won't perform well this year, so if you wait a while you'll probably still be able to get coins fairly cheaply, before we start to hit the $2000+ prices.

That said, the easiest way to get out of debt is to buy $1000 worth of bitcoins and wait a couple of years.

Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?

That's entirely up to you.  I keep my bitcoins in cold storage using 2 of 4 paper wallets distributed throughout the country.  The only way that I can lose my coins is if the site custodians collude against me.  I used to have much lower security but no one stole my coins then.

[CJYP]

Responses inline.

Hi all,

A friend introduced me to Bitcoin the other day and it sparked my interest.
Is this the real thing?
Yes. This is a real thing with several billion dollars invested in it.
Should I treat it as more of an investment or will it actually be useful to my everyday life?
Yes and yes. The thing is, they're tied -  The more useful it becomes in your everyday life, the better of an investment it will be. If it goes way up in value, it's probably partly because it's becoming useful in your everyday life.
What would cause Bitcoin to lose much of its value?
An altcoin dethroning bitcoin, enough governments banning its use that it won't have use in everyday life ever, a successful attack on the network, unforseen better thing comes along in the future, bursting bubbles, any number of other things I can't predict.
Can governments actually stop it/regulate it?
Yes and no. Governments can try, and they would be successful in stopping it from becoming mainstream. Which would cause it to lose a large portion of its value, leaving the network susceptible to attacks. However, they will have no more success than they did stopping bit torrent in terms of killing the concept of cryptocurrencies as a whole. There are altcoins that use different backing schemes and are thus less susceptible to attacks. If bitcoin was successfully attacked after a ban by governments, there would still exist a black market for one of those coins.
What's the best way for me to understand the concept?
How knowledgeable are you in computer science? I can't answer that without a little more information.

I'm a soon to be college graduate with about 15k in debt that I need to pay off (should be able to do it within a year), should I stay away from Bitcoin for now?
Pretend all the money you put into bitcoin is lost forever. You'd better still be able to pay off your debts and food, electricity, rent/mortgage, and have a little saved for bad weather if you can. Any money you have on top of that, feel free to invest in bitcoin, just go through the emotion you would experience if you lost it all in your head first. In my opinion, this could go either way - to the moon or to zero. You should do your own assessment of the situation though, and be wary of the advice of people on this forum. Yes, that includes my own.
Also, I plan on traveling around the world for a while after my debts are paid off, will Bitcoin be used for this?
Depending on where you're going, you may have the option to use bitcoin. Most big cities have a few places to spend your bitcoins. Outside of that, probably not so much. Though, that might change in a year.
Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?
Be careful. Your money is entirely tied to a number called your private key. Anyone with your private key can spend your money, and if your private key gets lost or deleted your money is gone forever. There are viruses that will try to steal your private key. Fortunately, bitcoin wallets have a feature to encrypt your private key. If you use that feature, and back up your (encrypted) wallet to several physical locations such that no one event can cause you to lose access to it (aka, give a friend who lives halfway across the world an encrypted copy - or put an encrypted copy on a cloud storage site), you are mostly set. Of course, it is possible that a virus could have a key logger. Fortunately, you can use something like lastpass to allow you to type in a different password, then copy-paste. Just set it to make you enter your last pass password every time you access the bitcoin password (for the record, you should be using something like last pass anyway for your random passwords on the Internet). Also, write down your wallet password on paper in case you lose access to your last pass account for whatever reason (don't worry, last pass can't read your passwords).
Finally, you might think it's simpler to let a service on the Internet like an exchange or web wallet hold your bitcoins for you, to deal with security. DON'T DO THAT. There isn't a service mature enough to trust with your coins yet. The probability that they'll just steal or lose them is significant.
Thanks!

there's enough information on this forum for you to answer all your questions and more without having to make a new thread...

That is not a helpful answer.
When someone comes to the forum asking for help, we should help them, not just say there's enough information on the forum. If the thread is deemed useless, it'll be closed.

[skooter]

  You can buy plane tickets with bitcoin- good prices on destinia.com

  Bitcoin is not an investment- it is a way to get out of the utter corruption of the current financial swamp. Seriously, just using dollars might go down in history as criminal- just because everyne is doing it doesn't make it right. It is our moral responsibility to avoid supportig the power of elite bankers who are using the labor of the oppressed for extravagant and luxurious life styles.

    You have to patronize bitcoin businesses and help the network grow, and the value of bitcoin will grow with it. You can put off paying your loans- every country in the world has done it.

http://www.amazon.com/This-Time-Different-Centuries-Financial/dp/0691152640

Lol, you realize all currencies, including bitcoin is a ponzi scheme right?

Guess where the money came from to pay off early bitcoin investors? You guessed it, new investors.

At least with the dollar, you know what it's going to be worth. It has a steady decline of a few % / year in value (due to inflation). Yes, if you hold a dollar for 50 years, it'll lose almost all it's value, but you KNOW that in advance, it's NOT a surprise. And in 5 years, it'll have 80 - 90% of the purchasing power it does today.

With bitcoin, who the fuck knows what it's going to be worth a year from now. Could be 1000, could be 100.

[jonald_fyookball]

 You can buy plane tickets with bitcoin- good prices on destinia.com

  Bitcoin is not an investment- it is a way to get out of the utter corruption of the current financial swamp. Seriously, just using dollars might go down in history as criminal- just because everyne is doing it doesn't make it right. It is our moral responsibility to avoid supportig the power of elite bankers who are using the labor of the oppressed for extravagant and luxurious life styles.

    You have to patronize bitcoin businesses and help the network grow, and the value of bitcoin will grow with it. You can put off paying your loans- every country in the world has done it.

http://www.amazon.com/This-Time-Different-Centuries-Financial/dp/0691152640

Lol, you realize all currencies, including bitcoin is a ponzi scheme right?

Guess where the money came from to pay off early bitcoin investors? You guessed it, new investors.

At least with the dollar, you know what it's going to be worth. It has a steady decline of a few % / year in value (due to inflation). Yes, if you hold a dollar for 50 years, it'll lose almost all it's value, but you KNOW that in advance, it's NOT a surprise. And in 5 years, it'll have 80 - 90% of the purchasing power it does today.

With bitcoin, who the fuck knows what it's going to be worth a year from now. Could be 1000, could be 100.

...or it could be $10,000. You do realize that the very uncertainty
you speak of is, is a necessary ingredient of a speculative
Investment, right?  (If the future value was a certainty,
everyone would jump on it and the opportunity would disappear)

Also you doing a disservice to bitcoin and this conversation
by labeling "all currencies a Ponzi scheme".

That is ridiculous.  Is gold a Ponzi scheme too?

You might as well say the entire economy is a Ponzi scheme
because anything that is ever sold has to be paid for by someone
else. 

[LAMarcellus]

Read my friend.
Read!

[Bit_Happy]

What is your college major?
You can work (part-time?) for BTC, and not need to invest much at first.

[jc01480]

Join the US armed forces, travel the world, and get paid while your student loan debts are forgiven.  Or buy BTC.  Or both...  Congratulations on your achievement.  May your future hold many fulfilling adventures.

[bitpop]

Bitcoin will be $1 million in a very short time

[Beliathon]

Hello and welcome to the Bitcointalk forum.

Is this the real thing?

Yes it is.

Should I treat it as more of an investment or will it actually be useful to my everyday life?

Both. By the time this investment matures, there will be no fiat currencies left to "cash out" to, as everyone will be using cryptocurrency. The video I link below will elaborate on this explanation.

What would cause Bitcoin to lose much of its value?

Fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Many people invested in Bitcoin hoping that it'd be a "get rich quick" scheme. It didn't work out, as crypto's widespread adoption is going to take at least a couple of years, maybe as long as five to ten. These people bail out by the thousands at the first downturn, They also bail back in by the tens of thousands at the first upturn. This is why Bitcoin's price has been so unstable. Fear and greed.

Can governments actually stop it/regulate it?

No, nation-state governments cannot effectively do either. It's decentralized, just like file-sharing over torrents. They are powerless to stop it unless they destroyed the internet itself (won't happen).

What's the best way for me to understand the concept?

Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaPgfErzeu0

Good luck, be safe, do your homework about smart security practices, and HAVE FUN!

[Brangdon]

Is this the real thing?

Yes.

Should I treat it as more of an investment or will it actually be useful to my everyday life?

It's value as an investment is predicated on it being useful in every day life. However, in practice today, there isn't much you can do with it that you can't do at least as easily with a credit card. For me it's interesting for intellectual and philosophical reasons, and I expect/hope it will eventually be more practical.

What would cause Bitcoin to lose much of its value?

Success of a rival crypto-currency. If someone like Google or Amazon decided to support Litecoin and not Bitcoin, for example. That seems unlikely today. Bitcoin has all the momentum; for good or ill it has all the visibility and PR, and it's where the venture capital money seems to be going. However, that could change very quickly.

Can governments actually stop it/regulate it?

They can regulate it but not stop it, and generally they have no valid reason to stop it.

What's the best way for me to understand the concept?

Read a lot.

I'm a soon to be college graduate with about 15k in debt that I need to pay off (should be able to do it within a year), should I stay away from Bitcoin for now?

Short answer: yes, stay away. Long answer: don't invest more than you can afford to lose. Bitcoin is high risk. There's a real chance it will crash suddenly and in 6 months will be worth a fraction of its current value. It's not a safe and easy route to make enough to pay off your debt.

Also, I plan on traveling around the world for a while after my debts are paid off, will Bitcoin be used for this?

Perhaps. Today probably not, but if it takes a few years to pay off your debts, the situation hopefully will have changed by then.

Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?

It depends on how you manage your private keys. Most thefts have happened because people let websites manage the keys, and the websites got hacked. Some thefts have happened because people stored their keys themselves, and had bad security - not using encrypted wallets, or having a compromised machine with a keylogger that took their password. Good security is possible, but takes knowledge and effort.

[J_Dubbs]

Hi all,

A friend introduced me to Bitcoin the other day and it sparked my interest. Is this the real thing? Should I treat it as more of an investment or will it actually be useful to my everyday life? What would cause Bitcoin to lose much of its value? Can governments actually stop it/regulate it? What's the best way for me to understand the concept?

I'm a soon to be college graduate with about 15k in debt that I need to pay off (should be able to do it within a year), should I stay away from Bitcoin for now? Also, I plan on traveling around the world for a while after my debts are paid off, will Bitcoin be used for this?

Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?

Thanks!

Instead of paying the loans just buy Bitcoins, then when it goes up you just payoff the loan! If you buy Bitcoins you can be your own boss, getting wealthy is the reward for being smart enough to identify this investment opportunity!!

Okay. Dude, you went to college, right? Put some effort into it, don't be lazy and expect good advice from anyone.

[Bit_Happy]

Bitcoin will be $1 million in a very short time

Wow, I can give away BTC and still be rich! 

[bryant.coleman]

Bitcoin will be $1 million in a very short time

In a very short time? Seriously?

Here I am having enormous problems after the price nosedived from $1,200 to $450, and you are saying that the price will rocket to $ 1,000,000. Please tell me that the post was sarcastic.

[Bit_Happy]

Bitpop was being optimistically sarcastic.

[Bitcoin Magazine]

Hi all,

A friend introduced me to Bitcoin the other day and it sparked my interest. Is this the real thing? Should I treat it as more of an investment or will it actually be useful to my everyday life? What would cause Bitcoin to lose much of its value? Can governments actually stop it/regulate it? What's the best way for me to understand the concept?

I'm a soon to be college graduate with about 15k in debt that I need to pay off (should be able to do it within a year), should I stay away from Bitcoin for now? Also, I plan on traveling around the world for a while after my debts are paid off, will Bitcoin be used for this?

Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?

Thanks!

it's a way to buy drugs over the internet.  i wouldn't buy any

[Zooey]

An excellent tip for when you first start hanging around here (and out there), and inevitably have to sniff your own way through what's true and and what's BULLSHIT:  

You can safely ignore anything ever said again by anyone who suggests Bitcoin is a PONZI or PYRAMID scheme; IT IS NOT.  

But don't take my word for it; you can determine this yourself by googling the terms Ponzi and Pyramid + scheme and see quite obviously these investment fraud cons have no similarity to the thing that is 'Bitcoin' - in any fucking way possible - to anyone who bothers to just find this out.  It is because of this that you can be very sure speakers of these claims are lying (I've come to be pretty sure almost all such offenders are shills rather than brain-dead).

Now... have at me pyramidfags.

[ensarwyckven]

It's one thing to buy Bitcoins for investment and or to use them to buy things on the internet. But after the recent troubles with altcoin exchanges, what altcoin exchanges do you recommend to store our Bitcoins in ?

[Bit_Happy]

Bitcoin (which is not a Ponzi) has some amazing similarities to a Ponzi scheme and anyone who says otherwise is obviously wrong.

[jonald_fyookball]

Bitcoin (which is not a Ponzi) has some amazing similarities to a Ponzi scheme and anyone who says otherwise is obviously wrong.

Like what

[iluvpie60]

Hi all,

A friend introduced me to Bitcoin the other day and it sparked my interest. Is this the real thing? Should I treat it as more of an investment or will it actually be useful to my everyday life? What would cause Bitcoin to lose much of its value? Can governments actually stop it/regulate it? What's the best way for me to understand the concept?

I'm a soon to be college graduate with about 15k in debt that I need to pay off (should be able to do it within a year), should I stay away from Bitcoin for now? Also, I plan on traveling around the world for a while after my debts are paid off, will Bitcoin be used for this?

Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?

Thanks!

Almost everyone on here will tell you its good but "don't risk more than you can lose" Because you are going to lose money on this guaranteed. Thats why they say it.

[jonald_fyookball]

Hi all,

A friend introduced me to Bitcoin the other day and it sparked my interest. Is this the real thing? Should I treat it as more of an investment or will it actually be useful to my everyday life? What would cause Bitcoin to lose much of its value? Can governments actually stop it/regulate it? What's the best way for me to understand the concept?

I'm a soon to be college graduate with about 15k in debt that I need to pay off (should be able to do it within a year), should I stay away from Bitcoin for now? Also, I plan on traveling around the world for a while after my debts are paid off, will Bitcoin be used for this?

Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?

Thanks!

Almost everyone on here will tell you its good but "don't risk more than you can lose" Because you are going to lose money on this guaranteed. Thats why they say it.

Nope.  I made money on bitcoin.

[Bit_Happy]

Bitcoin (which is not a Ponzi) has some amazing similarities to a Ponzi scheme and anyone who says otherwise is obviously wrong.

Like what

People talking about new money needing to come in, is a major similarity between BTC and a real Ponzi scheme.
Having "mega-rich early whales", and others wondering if they got in too late ("I'm left holding the bag") is another.

I have an older post giving at least 4 similarities, those are the 2 which come to mind right now.

[serenitys]

Re New money coming in ponzi scheme

I don't think bitcoin was ever created to be the next hot speculative stock so if you're only capable of seeing bitcoin as a stock, then obviously the statement "needs new money coming in" makes you think "ponzi scheme."

In reality, bitcoin was never designed for that. Its value comes when more people find it useful and prefer to use it in trade. At this time, however, it requires an exchange to acquire bitcoin if you're not mining for it. Most people then have to use their fiat currency, hence "more money coming in" but only as far as the exchange goes.

From there, the point of bitcoin is to be used in dynamic transaction, using it to buy stuff, pay for stuff AS a dominant currency. That it's being used and spent in its own marketplace, as long as the products and services it can be traded for have a usefulness to the ones trading it, and that even though the security factor needs careful vigilance, nobody can put demands on what you do with it, nobody can tax it (internally), nobody can find out what you spend it on or use it for, nobody can take it from you or devalue it (either in worth or utility)...and it's 100% safe from all that, then people will easily recognize its value and its worth, and easily continue to use it.

The more they use it, make room to accommodate using it, the more stuff they use it for, the higher its value.

The btc doesn't HAVE to come from fiat currency. It was designed to be created from the computer's mining operations and putting it into its internal market. If everybody mined for it, all the bitcoin ever to be created would get created regardless of fiat currency. If nobody put anymore fiat into it to "buy" bitcoin, it's not at all going to suddenly devalue bitcoin to 0 worth.

Fiat is not required.

That's just an easier, faster way to acquire it (as opposed to creating it) because not everyone has the skillset, time or interest, and it still has to be useful for real world transactions. So as long as fiat currency has ANY value, the trading of it is a viable place to increase btc holdings. It's just as easy to lose fiat currency in the process but the difference is, the POINT of bitcoin was not to be used as a get rich quick vehicle to make more fiat but to be used to create a stable economy and a secure currency free from greedy corrupt political agendas.


That's what you seem to not be understanding.

If you throw in x amount of fiat currency, then you and you alone are agreeing that the value of fiat is low enough to trade it for a currency that has a better value. You throw fiat into it and lose it because you want to use bitcoin's value to get more fiat. If the value of bitcoin does drop, you think it's bitcoin's fault...and it's a ponzi scheme because your agenda all along was to play poker and a poker game can't sustain unless people keep putting up the ante. If you lose your ass (fiat ass) that's your own fault and nobody else's...same as if you race cars at 160mph and slam into a wall, don't blame the car...that's not what it was built for. Just because it can got 160, and you found a loophole to indulge your need for speed, you got nobody to blame but yourself for losses incurred abusing its purpose.


If you lose your fiat ass gambling on bitcoin's market price like a stock share, that's just you doing bitcoin wrong.

How about buy bitcoin and then go spend it on stuff. Buy the gyft card with bitcoin and buy groceries or household goods with it at Target or whatever other store. There are a growing number of places starting to trade their products and services for bitcoin - real business - who wouldn't do that if they thought it was a scam or a ponzi scheme...their livelihoods rest on the value of bitcoin...and the value lies in people using it for THAT reason, not whether or not they can pipe in $1000 fiat and cash out $10000 fiat.

[Bit_Happy]

Fiat is not required.

Unlike a traditional Ponzi "Fiat is not required" to obtain BTC.
Like a Ponzi, many people enter hoping/expecting to exit with a large profit (Yes, Facebook IPO is also similar to a Ponzi in some ways)
Note: Speculators have helped BTC, without them the all-time high would probably still be below $5.

Denying the similarities (between BTC and a Ponzi) is pointless, since they are so obvious.*
*If there wasn't obvious similarities between BTC and a Ponzi, then there would not be so many people "all over the web" claiming BTC is a Ponzi (just think about it, before trying to debate)

Instead spend the time and effort to point out why BTC is better.

[jonald_fyookball]

Bitcoin (which is not a Ponzi) has some amazing similarities to a Ponzi scheme and anyone who says otherwise is obviously wrong.

Like what

People talking about new money needing to come in, is a major similarity between BTC and a real Ponzi scheme.
Having "mega-rich early whales", and others wondering if they got in too late ("I'm left holding the bag") is another.

I have an older post giving at least 4 similarities, those are the 2 which come to mind right now.

Sorry but I'm not buying that argument.  Given your reasoning, I could say the same thing about early adopters of, say Microsoft stock, apple stock, or any speculative investment.  Prices always rise and fall due to supply and demand.  Price is based on the dynamics of the marketplace.  You can call bitcoin a bubble if you want ( although I wouldn't say that's true either), but that's more accurate way to describe the dynamics.  A Ponzi scheme involves a central person literally paying out early adopters from later adopters' funds, and this is NOT the same thing as people trading an financial instrument in the marketplace.

[Bit_Happy]

Bitcoin (which is not a Ponzi) has some amazing similarities to a Ponzi scheme and anyone who says otherwise is obviously wrong.

Like what

People talking about new money needing to come in, is a major similarity between BTC and a real Ponzi scheme.
Having "mega-rich early whales", and others wondering if they got in too late ("I'm left holding the bag") is another.

I have an older post giving at least 4 similarities, those are the 2 which come to mind right now.

Sorry but I'm not buying that argument.  Given your reasoning, I could say the same thing about early adopters of, say Microsoft stock, apple stock, or any speculative investment.  Prices always rise and fall due to supply and demand.  Price is based on the dynamics of the marketplace.  You can call bitcoin a bubble if you want ( although I wouldn't say that's true either), but that's more accurate way to describe the dynamics.  A Ponzi scheme involves a central person literally paying out early adopters from later adopters' funds, and this is NOT the same thing as people trading an financial instrument in the marketplace.

I said "similarities"
...also Microsoft stock holders do not say "we need fresh money coming in" they are much more likely to say "I hope the profit estimates are accurate."

Bitcoin has similarities with a Ponzi, if you don't see that then perhaps you need glasses?

[twiifm]

Bitcoin (which is not a Ponzi) has some amazing similarities to a Ponzi scheme and anyone who says otherwise is obviously wrong.

Like what

People talking about new money needing to come in, is a major similarity between BTC and a real Ponzi scheme.
Having "mega-rich early whales", and others wondering if they got in too late ("I'm left holding the bag") is another.

I have an older post giving at least 4 similarities, those are the 2 which come to mind right now.

Sorry but I'm not buying that argument.  Given your reasoning, I could say the same thing about early adopters of, say Microsoft stock, apple stock, or any speculative investment.  Prices always rise and fall due to supply and demand.  Price is based on the dynamics of the marketplace.  You can call bitcoin a bubble if you want ( although I wouldn't say that's true either), but that's more accurate way to describe the dynamics.  A Ponzi scheme involves a central person literally paying out early adopters from later adopters' funds, and this is NOT the same thing as people trading an financial instrument in the marketplace.

I agree that BTC is not a ponzi.  Its a pyramid or pump and dump

But its nothing like stock.   Stock is equity. 

[Beliathon]

Bitcoin will be $1 million in a very short time

Subtract the hyperbole: "Bitcoin will be exchanging for one million plus dollars within three to six years."

If you want to understand why, study the birth of the internet, a decentralized network. See how quickly this decentralized model overwhelmed and transcended the decades old centralized telecom network.

"Since the mid-1990s, the Internet has had a revolutionary impact on culture and commerce, including the rise of near-instant communication by electronic mail, instant messaging, voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) telephone calls, two-way interactive video calls, and the World Wide Web with its discussion forums, blogs, social networking, and online shopping sites. The research and education community continues to develop and use advanced networks such as NSF's very high speed Backbone Network Service (vBNS), Internet2, and National LambdaRail. Increasing amounts of data are transmitted at higher and higher speeds over fiber optic networks operating at 1-Gbit/s, 10-Gbit/s, or more.

The Internet's takeover of the global communication landscape was almost instant in historical terms: it only communicated 1% of the information flowing through two-way telecommunications networks in the year 1993, already 51% by 2000, and more than 97% of the telecommunicated information by 2007.[1] Today the Internet continues to grow, driven by ever greater amounts of online information, commerce, entertainment, and social networking"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet

1% to 99.9% in 14 short years. Expect a slightly shorter time horizon for the adoption of cryptocurrency. Remember, our technological progress is accelerating exponentially, not linearly.

With each passing year, our pace increases...

[profall]

Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?

If you make paper wallets then it's just a matter of physical security.

[Beliathon]

Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?

If you make paper wallets then it's just a matter of physical security.

There is also the Brain Wallet

There's a how-to guide here: http://www.buybitcoinswiki.com/how-to-setup-a-bitcoin-brain-wallet/

Be EXTREMELY careful in passphrase selection. Never choose anything written anywhere previously. Be 100% original.

[californiaquail]

I read a lot before posting on these forums, as far as i can understand, bitcoin can't be forked if people actively mine it, but i also read on some forums that today, quite a lot of miners / pools don't find it attractive enough so they turn mercenaries and fork coins, i mean, if people  already think like that... btc is not even 6 years old it can't be good for its future ?
what will happen in a decade or even 5 years if people just stop mining it and switch to whatever can make them money ?

[jonald_fyookball]

Bitcoin (which is not a Ponzi) has some amazing similarities to a Ponzi scheme and anyone who says otherwise is obviously wrong.

Like what

People talking about new money needing to come in, is a major similarity between BTC and a real Ponzi scheme.
Having "mega-rich early whales", and others wondering if they got in too late ("I'm left holding the bag") is another.

I have an older post giving at least 4 similarities, those are the 2 which come to mind right now.

Sorry but I'm not buying that argument.  Given your reasoning, I could say the same thing about early adopters of, say Microsoft stock, apple stock, or any speculative investment.  Prices always rise and fall due to supply and demand.  Price is based on the dynamics of the marketplace.  You can call bitcoin a bubble if you want ( although I wouldn't say that's true either), but that's more accurate way to describe the dynamics.  A Ponzi scheme involves a central person literally paying out early adopters from later adopters' funds, and this is NOT the same thing as people trading an financial instrument in the marketplace.

I said "similarities"
...also Microsoft stock holders do not say "we need fresh money coming in" they are much more likely to say "I hope the profit estimates are accurate."

Bitcoin has similarities with a Ponzi, if you don't see that then perhaps you need glasses?

The important difference is that a Ponzi scheme is based on deception and fraud.

[bryant.coleman]

There is also the Brain Wallet

Brainwallets are the least secure of all. Never go for it. I am seeing too many threads here in Bitcointalk about Brainwallets being hacked in to, and the Bitcoins in them stolen by the hackers.

[jonald_fyookball]

There is also the Brain Wallet

Brainwallets are the least secure of all. Never go for it. I am seeing too many threads here in Bitcointalk about Brainwallets being hacked in to, and the Bitcoins in them stolen by the hackers.

Really?  How do you hack a brain wallet?  What thread

[Beliathon]

Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaPgfErzeu0
And this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs6F91dFYCs
And this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQdmsL147j0
And this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e__m-w4N7NI

And read this: https://medium.com/what-i-learned-today/1a812f8fa7cd
And this: https://medium.com/what-i-learned-today/ab461d4ee1b7

[Beliathon]

Brainwallets are the least secure of all. Never go for it. I am seeing too many threads here in Bitcointalk about Brainwallets being hacked in to, and the Bitcoins in them stolen by the hackers.

This argument is fallicious. Brain wallets are being hacked not because brain wallets are not secure, but because people are morons. I have six brain wallets. They are as secure as the laws of the universe.

Do your homework thoroughly before using ANY kind of cryptocurrency wallet!

[TaunSew]

The comparison with the internet is a very flawed argument.  The internet has this proprietary infrastructure which can't be easily replicated unless one is willing to lay down an entirely new telecommunications network.  There is no associated proprietary infrastructure with Bitcoin and anyone can make a Bitclone.

Furthermore - the velocity of money and contractions in real money supply would prohibit Bitcoin from ever seeing a market capitalization of $20 trillion (unless the US has hyperinflation and a loaf of bread costs $5 million).

[freedomno1]

The comparison with the internet is a very flawed argument.  The internet has this proprietary infrastructure which can't be easily replicated unless one is willing to lay down an entirely new telecommunications network.  There is no associated proprietary infrastructure with Bitcoin and anyone can make a Bitclone.

Furthermore - the velocity of money and contractions in real money supply would prohibit Bitcoin from ever seeing a market capitalization of $20 trillion (unless the US has hyperinflation and a loaf of bread costs $5 million).

Not necessarily if Bitcoin is considered TCP/IP that doesn't mean that 2.0 protocols that act as different functions of the same ecosystem cannot be created for it, the Bitcoin 2.0 architectures at this stage does make for a comparable analogy, the innovation of a decentralized ledger compounded with secure cryptography does make a strong argument for a new form of payment system.

The second point is valid enough as usage is always measure of the utility it provides and what people are willing to exchange goods and services for.
That said it should not be affected by any one states rules of restriction except for at exchanges.

[jonald_fyookball]

The comparison with the internet is a very flawed argument.  The internet has this proprietary infrastructure which can't be easily replicated unless one is willing to lay down an entirely new telecommunications network.  There is no associated proprietary infrastructure with Bitcoin and anyone can make a Bitclone. 

I think you're contradicting yourself.

Anyone can make a bitclone, as you pointed out.  (Just as anyone could make a TCP/IP clone.)

But, for the same reason that it would be hard to create an entirely new network for the
web, it is hard to create new networks for cryptocurrencies, because you need miners,
merchants, investors, etc. 

This is why most of the altcoins die a quick death after being pumped and dumped.

[Zooey]

Here's my pick for the best Bitcoin exposition/lecture:

'The Role of Bitcoin as Money' — By Erik Voorhees [Conference, 2013]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2YllvbJo6g

[jonald_fyookball]

I read a lot before posting on these forums, as far as i can understand, bitcoin can't be forked if people actively mine it, but i also read on some forums that today, quite a lot of miners / pools don't find it attractive enough so they turn mercenaries and fork coins, i mean, if people  already think like that... btc is not even 6 years old it can't be good for its future ?
what will happen in a decade or even 5 years if people just stop mining it and switch to whatever can make them money ?

People can mine altcoins but unless a truly superior coin arises, they will be less profitable than bitcoin because you can't spend altcoins anywhere.. You can only trade it for bitcoins.

[zolace]

if you research a couple of things, you will see that you dont need money to make bitcoins, there are many options to make bitcoin fro free and can help you pay stuff off.  do research

[cryptoanarchist]

The deal with Bitcoin is when you work hard for your money, you can save it as bitcoin and the government and IRS can't steal it from you.

Sure, it will rise against the dollar over time, but so does just about everything. Its more about keeping your finances private and de-funding this corrupt fiat empire of shitheads.

[jonald_fyookball]

if you research a couple of things, you will see that you dont need money to make bitcoins, there are many options to make bitcoin fro free and can help you pay stuff off.  do research

You're speaking foolishness.  There is no such thing as a free lunch.

[2tights]

The deal with Bitcoin is when you work hard for your money, you can save it as bitcoin and the government and IRS can't steal it from you.

Sure, it will rise against the dollar over time, but so does just about everything. Its more about keeping your finances private and de-funding this corrupt fiat empire of shitheads.

I like your style and logic.

[serenitys]

The deal with Bitcoin is when you work hard for your money, you can save it as bitcoin and the government and IRS can't steal it from you.

Sure, it will rise against the dollar over time, but so does just about everything. Its more about keeping your finances private and de-funding this corrupt fiat empire of shitheads.

I like your style and logic.

+1 here

[Beliathon]

the velocity of money and contractions in real money supply would prohibit Bitcoin from ever seeing a market capitalization of $20 trillion
(unless the US has hyperinflation and a loaf of bread costs $5 million).

Related viewing:

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQdmsL147j0
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZU3wfjtIJY
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP2V_np2c0
5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpAMbpQ8J7g

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Hi all,

A friend introduced me to Bitcoin the other day and it sparked my interest. Is this the real thing? Should I treat it as more of an investment or will it actually be useful to my everyday life? What would cause Bitcoin to lose much of its value? Can governments actually stop it/regulate it? What's the best way for me to understand the concept?

I'm a soon to be college graduate with about 15k in debt that I need to pay off (should be able to do it within a year), should I stay away from Bitcoin for now? Also, I plan on traveling around the world for a while after my debts are paid off, will Bitcoin be used for this?

Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?

Thanks!

Once, when I was a kid, I asked my mother to help me with my homework because I was having trouble hunting down the answers. She wasn't versed in the subject, nor knew what chapter of the book we were currently studying in school.

She looked at the question, then I saw her go to the index of the book and hunt down a keyword in the first question, whereupon she arrived at the chapter I was currently studying in school, and pointed out the answer. I saw her do this a second time, whereupon I stopped her halfway through the process, informing her I can take it from there, for all the answers would be within only 3-4 pages, and with the help of the index I could narrow it down further sans rereading the entire chapter.

In today's day and age, we have Google, of which the answers to all your basic questions can me found, unless the college you went to taught that it's best to have others hunt down answers for you, in which case you're...

Trust me, I'm not trying to be cynical or an ass, and we all love to have you aboard, but clearly it seems to me you didn't do any research on the subject prior to coming here, opting to take the easy route and have the info hand-spooned to you while you may be playing video games, coming back later to read the answers.

Hope I'm wrong, bud.

~Bruno Kucinskas

[jonald_fyookball]

Hi all,

A friend introduced me to Bitcoin the other day and it sparked my interest. Is this the real thing? Should I treat it as more of an investment or will it actually be useful to my everyday life? What would cause Bitcoin to lose much of its value? Can governments actually stop it/regulate it? What's the best way for me to understand the concept?

I'm a soon to be college graduate with about 15k in debt that I need to pay off (should be able to do it within a year), should I stay away from Bitcoin for now? Also, I plan on traveling around the world for a while after my debts are paid off, will Bitcoin be used for this?

Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?

Thanks!

Once, when I was a kid, I asked my mother to help me with my homework because I was having trouble hunting down the answers. She wasn't versed in the subject, nor knew what chapter of the book we were currently studying in school.

She looked at the question, then I saw her go to the index of the book and hunt down a keyword in the first question, whereupon she arrived at the chapter I was currently studying in school, and pointed out the answer. I saw her do this a second time, whereupon I stopped her halfway through the process, informing her I can take it from there, for all the answers would be within only 3-4 pages, and with the help of the index I could narrow it down further sans rereading the entire chapter.

In today's day and age, we have Google, of which the answers to all your basic questions can me found, unless the college you went to taught that it's best to have others hunt down answers for you, in which case you're...

Trust me, I'm not trying to be cynical or an ass, and we all love to have you aboard, but clearly it seems to me you didn't do any research on the subject prior to coming here, opting to take the easy route and have the info hand-spooned to you while you may be playing video games, coming back later to read the answers.

Hope I'm wrong, bud.

~Bruno Kucinskas

Good post.  One problem though is there is a lot of MISinformation out there.  I wouldnt trust google to give this kid the truth about bitcoin.

[ensarwyckven]

Start off with an amount of Bitcoin in USD that you can easily afford to put aside for a long term investment and then hope for the best. If Bitcoin starts to go up, you can decide whether it's going to keep going in that direction and trend, and buy some more Bitcoin for further investing.

[Bit_Happy]

Start off with an amount of Bitcoin in USD that you can easily afford to put aside for a long term investment and then hope for the best. If Bitcoin starts to go up, you can decide whether it's going to keep going in that direction and trend, and buy some more Bitcoin for further investing.

Good advice to "Start off with an amount of Bitcoin in USD that you can easily afford"
If it goes down, buy even more.