Soon to be college grad in need of advice- what's the deal with Bitcoin?

[Zooey]

An excellent tip for when you first start hanging around here (and out there), and inevitably have to sniff your own way through what's true and and what's BULLSHIT:  

You can safely ignore anything ever said again by anyone who suggests Bitcoin is a PONZI or PYRAMID scheme; IT IS NOT.  

But don't take my word for it; you can determine this yourself by googling the terms Ponzi and Pyramid + scheme and see quite obviously these investment fraud cons have no similarity to the thing that is 'Bitcoin' - in any fucking way possible - to anyone who bothers to just find this out.  It is because of this that you can be very sure speakers of these claims are lying (I've come to be pretty sure almost all such offenders are shills rather than brain-dead).

Now... have at me pyramidfags.

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[ensarwyckven]

It's one thing to buy Bitcoins for investment and or to use them to buy things on the internet. But after the recent troubles with altcoin exchanges, what altcoin exchanges do you recommend to store our Bitcoins in ?

[Bit_Happy]

Bitcoin (which is not a Ponzi) has some amazing similarities to a Ponzi scheme and anyone who says otherwise is obviously wrong.

[jonald_fyookball]

Bitcoin (which is not a Ponzi) has some amazing similarities to a Ponzi scheme and anyone who says otherwise is obviously wrong.

Like what

[iluvpie60]

Hi all,

A friend introduced me to Bitcoin the other day and it sparked my interest. Is this the real thing? Should I treat it as more of an investment or will it actually be useful to my everyday life? What would cause Bitcoin to lose much of its value? Can governments actually stop it/regulate it? What's the best way for me to understand the concept?

I'm a soon to be college graduate with about 15k in debt that I need to pay off (should be able to do it within a year), should I stay away from Bitcoin for now? Also, I plan on traveling around the world for a while after my debts are paid off, will Bitcoin be used for this?

Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?

Thanks!

Almost everyone on here will tell you its good but "don't risk more than you can lose" Because you are going to lose money on this guaranteed. Thats why they say it.

[jonald_fyookball]

Hi all,

A friend introduced me to Bitcoin the other day and it sparked my interest. Is this the real thing? Should I treat it as more of an investment or will it actually be useful to my everyday life? What would cause Bitcoin to lose much of its value? Can governments actually stop it/regulate it? What's the best way for me to understand the concept?

I'm a soon to be college graduate with about 15k in debt that I need to pay off (should be able to do it within a year), should I stay away from Bitcoin for now? Also, I plan on traveling around the world for a while after my debts are paid off, will Bitcoin be used for this?

Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?

Thanks!

Almost everyone on here will tell you its good but "don't risk more than you can lose" Because you are going to lose money on this guaranteed. Thats why they say it.

Nope.  I made money on bitcoin.

[Bit_Happy]

Bitcoin (which is not a Ponzi) has some amazing similarities to a Ponzi scheme and anyone who says otherwise is obviously wrong.

Like what

People talking about new money needing to come in, is a major similarity between BTC and a real Ponzi scheme.
Having "mega-rich early whales", and others wondering if they got in too late ("I'm left holding the bag") is another.

I have an older post giving at least 4 similarities, those are the 2 which come to mind right now.

[serenitys]

Re New money coming in ponzi scheme

I don't think bitcoin was ever created to be the next hot speculative stock so if you're only capable of seeing bitcoin as a stock, then obviously the statement "needs new money coming in" makes you think "ponzi scheme."

In reality, bitcoin was never designed for that. Its value comes when more people find it useful and prefer to use it in trade. At this time, however, it requires an exchange to acquire bitcoin if you're not mining for it. Most people then have to use their fiat currency, hence "more money coming in" but only as far as the exchange goes.

From there, the point of bitcoin is to be used in dynamic transaction, using it to buy stuff, pay for stuff AS a dominant currency. That it's being used and spent in its own marketplace, as long as the products and services it can be traded for have a usefulness to the ones trading it, and that even though the security factor needs careful vigilance, nobody can put demands on what you do with it, nobody can tax it (internally), nobody can find out what you spend it on or use it for, nobody can take it from you or devalue it (either in worth or utility)...and it's 100% safe from all that, then people will easily recognize its value and its worth, and easily continue to use it.

The more they use it, make room to accommodate using it, the more stuff they use it for, the higher its value.

The btc doesn't HAVE to come from fiat currency. It was designed to be created from the computer's mining operations and putting it into its internal market. If everybody mined for it, all the bitcoin ever to be created would get created regardless of fiat currency. If nobody put anymore fiat into it to "buy" bitcoin, it's not at all going to suddenly devalue bitcoin to 0 worth.

Fiat is not required.

That's just an easier, faster way to acquire it (as opposed to creating it) because not everyone has the skillset, time or interest, and it still has to be useful for real world transactions. So as long as fiat currency has ANY value, the trading of it is a viable place to increase btc holdings. It's just as easy to lose fiat currency in the process but the difference is, the POINT of bitcoin was not to be used as a get rich quick vehicle to make more fiat but to be used to create a stable economy and a secure currency free from greedy corrupt political agendas.


That's what you seem to not be understanding.

If you throw in x amount of fiat currency, then you and you alone are agreeing that the value of fiat is low enough to trade it for a currency that has a better value. You throw fiat into it and lose it because you want to use bitcoin's value to get more fiat. If the value of bitcoin does drop, you think it's bitcoin's fault...and it's a ponzi scheme because your agenda all along was to play poker and a poker game can't sustain unless people keep putting up the ante. If you lose your ass (fiat ass) that's your own fault and nobody else's...same as if you race cars at 160mph and slam into a wall, don't blame the car...that's not what it was built for. Just because it can got 160, and you found a loophole to indulge your need for speed, you got nobody to blame but yourself for losses incurred abusing its purpose.


If you lose your fiat ass gambling on bitcoin's market price like a stock share, that's just you doing bitcoin wrong.

How about buy bitcoin and then go spend it on stuff. Buy the gyft card with bitcoin and buy groceries or household goods with it at Target or whatever other store. There are a growing number of places starting to trade their products and services for bitcoin - real business - who wouldn't do that if they thought it was a scam or a ponzi scheme...their livelihoods rest on the value of bitcoin...and the value lies in people using it for THAT reason, not whether or not they can pipe in $1000 fiat and cash out $10000 fiat.

[Bit_Happy]

Fiat is not required.

Unlike a traditional Ponzi "Fiat is not required" to obtain BTC.
Like a Ponzi, many people enter hoping/expecting to exit with a large profit (Yes, Facebook IPO is also similar to a Ponzi in some ways)
Note: Speculators have helped BTC, without them the all-time high would probably still be below $5.

Denying the similarities (between BTC and a Ponzi) is pointless, since they are so obvious.*
*If there wasn't obvious similarities between BTC and a Ponzi, then there would not be so many people "all over the web" claiming BTC is a Ponzi (just think about it, before trying to debate)

Instead spend the time and effort to point out why BTC is better.

[jonald_fyookball]

Bitcoin (which is not a Ponzi) has some amazing similarities to a Ponzi scheme and anyone who says otherwise is obviously wrong.

Like what

People talking about new money needing to come in, is a major similarity between BTC and a real Ponzi scheme.
Having "mega-rich early whales", and others wondering if they got in too late ("I'm left holding the bag") is another.

I have an older post giving at least 4 similarities, those are the 2 which come to mind right now.

Sorry but I'm not buying that argument.  Given your reasoning, I could say the same thing about early adopters of, say Microsoft stock, apple stock, or any speculative investment.  Prices always rise and fall due to supply and demand.  Price is based on the dynamics of the marketplace.  You can call bitcoin a bubble if you want ( although I wouldn't say that's true either), but that's more accurate way to describe the dynamics.  A Ponzi scheme involves a central person literally paying out early adopters from later adopters' funds, and this is NOT the same thing as people trading an financial instrument in the marketplace.

[Bit_Happy]

Bitcoin (which is not a Ponzi) has some amazing similarities to a Ponzi scheme and anyone who says otherwise is obviously wrong.

Like what

People talking about new money needing to come in, is a major similarity between BTC and a real Ponzi scheme.
Having "mega-rich early whales", and others wondering if they got in too late ("I'm left holding the bag") is another.

I have an older post giving at least 4 similarities, those are the 2 which come to mind right now.

Sorry but I'm not buying that argument.  Given your reasoning, I could say the same thing about early adopters of, say Microsoft stock, apple stock, or any speculative investment.  Prices always rise and fall due to supply and demand.  Price is based on the dynamics of the marketplace.  You can call bitcoin a bubble if you want ( although I wouldn't say that's true either), but that's more accurate way to describe the dynamics.  A Ponzi scheme involves a central person literally paying out early adopters from later adopters' funds, and this is NOT the same thing as people trading an financial instrument in the marketplace.

I said "similarities"
...also Microsoft stock holders do not say "we need fresh money coming in" they are much more likely to say "I hope the profit estimates are accurate."

Bitcoin has similarities with a Ponzi, if you don't see that then perhaps you need glasses?

[twiifm]

Bitcoin (which is not a Ponzi) has some amazing similarities to a Ponzi scheme and anyone who says otherwise is obviously wrong.

Like what

People talking about new money needing to come in, is a major similarity between BTC and a real Ponzi scheme.
Having "mega-rich early whales", and others wondering if they got in too late ("I'm left holding the bag") is another.

I have an older post giving at least 4 similarities, those are the 2 which come to mind right now.

Sorry but I'm not buying that argument.  Given your reasoning, I could say the same thing about early adopters of, say Microsoft stock, apple stock, or any speculative investment.  Prices always rise and fall due to supply and demand.  Price is based on the dynamics of the marketplace.  You can call bitcoin a bubble if you want ( although I wouldn't say that's true either), but that's more accurate way to describe the dynamics.  A Ponzi scheme involves a central person literally paying out early adopters from later adopters' funds, and this is NOT the same thing as people trading an financial instrument in the marketplace.

I agree that BTC is not a ponzi.  Its a pyramid or pump and dump

But its nothing like stock.   Stock is equity. 

[Beliathon]

Bitcoin will be $1 million in a very short time

Subtract the hyperbole: "Bitcoin will be exchanging for one million plus dollars within three to six years."

If you want to understand why, study the birth of the internet, a decentralized network. See how quickly this decentralized model overwhelmed and transcended the decades old centralized telecom network.

"Since the mid-1990s, the Internet has had a revolutionary impact on culture and commerce, including the rise of near-instant communication by electronic mail, instant messaging, voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) telephone calls, two-way interactive video calls, and the World Wide Web with its discussion forums, blogs, social networking, and online shopping sites. The research and education community continues to develop and use advanced networks such as NSF's very high speed Backbone Network Service (vBNS), Internet2, and National LambdaRail. Increasing amounts of data are transmitted at higher and higher speeds over fiber optic networks operating at 1-Gbit/s, 10-Gbit/s, or more.

The Internet's takeover of the global communication landscape was almost instant in historical terms: it only communicated 1% of the information flowing through two-way telecommunications networks in the year 1993, already 51% by 2000, and more than 97% of the telecommunicated information by 2007.[1] Today the Internet continues to grow, driven by ever greater amounts of online information, commerce, entertainment, and social networking"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet

1% to 99.9% in 14 short years. Expect a slightly shorter time horizon for the adoption of cryptocurrency. Remember, our technological progress is accelerating exponentially, not linearly.

With each passing year, our pace increases...

[profall]

Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?

If you make paper wallets then it's just a matter of physical security.

[Beliathon]

Also, how secure is it if someone tried to steal my money?

If you make paper wallets then it's just a matter of physical security.

There is also the Brain Wallet

There's a how-to guide here: http://www.buybitcoinswiki.com/how-to-setup-a-bitcoin-brain-wallet/

Be EXTREMELY careful in passphrase selection. Never choose anything written anywhere previously. Be 100% original.

[californiaquail]

I read a lot before posting on these forums, as far as i can understand, bitcoin can't be forked if people actively mine it, but i also read on some forums that today, quite a lot of miners / pools don't find it attractive enough so they turn mercenaries and fork coins, i mean, if people  already think like that... btc is not even 6 years old it can't be good for its future ?
what will happen in a decade or even 5 years if people just stop mining it and switch to whatever can make them money ?

[jonald_fyookball]

Bitcoin (which is not a Ponzi) has some amazing similarities to a Ponzi scheme and anyone who says otherwise is obviously wrong.

Like what

People talking about new money needing to come in, is a major similarity between BTC and a real Ponzi scheme.
Having "mega-rich early whales", and others wondering if they got in too late ("I'm left holding the bag") is another.

I have an older post giving at least 4 similarities, those are the 2 which come to mind right now.

Sorry but I'm not buying that argument.  Given your reasoning, I could say the same thing about early adopters of, say Microsoft stock, apple stock, or any speculative investment.  Prices always rise and fall due to supply and demand.  Price is based on the dynamics of the marketplace.  You can call bitcoin a bubble if you want ( although I wouldn't say that's true either), but that's more accurate way to describe the dynamics.  A Ponzi scheme involves a central person literally paying out early adopters from later adopters' funds, and this is NOT the same thing as people trading an financial instrument in the marketplace.

I said "similarities"
...also Microsoft stock holders do not say "we need fresh money coming in" they are much more likely to say "I hope the profit estimates are accurate."

Bitcoin has similarities with a Ponzi, if you don't see that then perhaps you need glasses?

The important difference is that a Ponzi scheme is based on deception and fraud.

[bryant.coleman]

There is also the Brain Wallet

Brainwallets are the least secure of all. Never go for it. I am seeing too many threads here in Bitcointalk about Brainwallets being hacked in to, and the Bitcoins in them stolen by the hackers.

[jonald_fyookball]

There is also the Brain Wallet

Brainwallets are the least secure of all. Never go for it. I am seeing too many threads here in Bitcointalk about Brainwallets being hacked in to, and the Bitcoins in them stolen by the hackers.

Really?  How do you hack a brain wallet?  What thread

[Beliathon]

Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaPgfErzeu0
And this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs6F91dFYCs
And this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQdmsL147j0
And this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e__m-w4N7NI

And read this: https://medium.com/what-i-learned-today/1a812f8fa7cd
And this: https://medium.com/what-i-learned-today/ab461d4ee1b7