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Author Topic: Wake up people, there are no bitcoins, Nakamoto fooled you  (Read 190 times)
Mariokb (OP)
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Today at 08:10:03 AM
 #1

Here is the article that nicely explains it: https://medium.com/@mario.kb99/bitcoins-do-not-exist-debunking-a-collective-delusion-f0afe8fb6568

"Bitcoins Do Not Exist: Debunking a Collective Delusion

Recently, a colleague proudly told me that he had bought “two whole bitcoins” for $120,000 and that he now owned a valuable asset.

I tried to explain that he had fallen victim to a collective delusion and that he had simply given his money away because there are no “bitcoins.”

He opened a crypto app on his phone and showed me a record reading “2 BTC,” insisting that it proved he owned two bitcoins. I pointed out that this proved nothing.

I picked up a pen, wrote “2 BTC” on a piece of paper, and said that I had just created exactly the same record. I explained to him that this did not mean that two units of something had miraculously appeared in my possession. There was nothing to analyze to determine whether it was an asset or whether it was valuable.

He responded that the creation of Satoshi Nakamoto, named “Bitcoin,” stores his bitcoins. Accepting this for the sake of argument, I suggested we look closely at that creation to see what we could actually find.

I pointed out that what we actually see is a network of computers storing a database of user addresses, each associated with a number. His address, for example, is associated with the number 2. We also see the network’s protocol, the software that implements it, and its rules. One of those rules limits the sum of all numbers associated with addresses to 21 million. But nowhere do we find two units that we could call ‘bitcoins’ and analyze. There are no two digital items, such as documents, photographs, or software programs; no two intangible items, such as patents or copyrights; and no two physical items, such as metal coins.

“At that point, my colleague changed the subject and brought up fiat currencies and stocks. He argued that when people hold dollars or shares of Apple stock, they also just have records such as ‘100 USD’ or ‘5 AAPL.’”

I responded, “This is not true. What they actually have are units of an existing thing. The record merely tells them how many of those units they hold.”

“In the case of Apple stock, that existing thing is a company. Because the company exists, we can analyze whether owning units of it provides any benefits. It does. The company can distribute profits, execute buybacks, or liquidate its assets. Those future benefits make the shares valuable to their holders and therefore an asset.

The same principle applies to dollars. In their case, the existing thing is debt. Because that debt exists, we can analyze whether holding units of it provides any benefits.”

My colleague interrupted, asking how that could be. He argued that, unlike Apple, the bank does not pay him profits or transfer its property simply because he holds cash or a bank balance.

I responded, “This is where many people get confused. It is not the bank that provides the benefits, but the bank’s debtors.

Commercial banks and the Fed create dollars as loans to businesses, individuals, or the state. That’s why dollars are units of an existing debt. Those debtors are legally required to repay their debts.”

“But they don’t owe me anything,” he objected. “They owe the bank. Why would they ever give me anything of value?”

“Because they must first obtain the dollars you hold to repay their loans,” I replied. “If you already hold dollars, the debtors must offer their goods, services, or labor on the market to obtain those dollars from you. The bank simply acts as the intermediary enforcing repayment.”

“And what if they refuse?” he asked.

“Then they default. The bank seizes their collateral, such as houses, cars, or land, and auctions it for dollars. As a holder of dollars, you can purchase that collateral. The bank keeps the dollars to extinguish the unpaid loan, while you receive the debtor’s property. Either way, the benefit to you comes from the debtor.”

My colleague responded that none of this applies to the state, which is the biggest debtor of all. The state doesn’t have to work for you, and there is no property seizure if it defaults.

“That’s true,” I replied, “but the state still provides a benefit to holders of dollars. Because it owes the central bank, it accepts your dollars in settlement of tax liabilities.”

I continued, “All of these benefits make dollars valuable to their holders. That is why they are assets.”

I went on, “Now let’s apply exactly the same reasoning to Bitcoin. When Nakamoto’s creation records ‘2 BTC,’ the record does not tell you that you hold two units of any existing thing, such as a debt, a company, a document, a photograph, a software program, a patent, or a metal coin. Consequently, there is nothing to analyze to determine whether it is valuable or whether it is an asset, just as there was nothing when I wrote ‘2 BTC’ on a piece of paper. So, you did not buy two bitcoins. You bought a digitally recorded number: 2.”

Unable to answer, my colleague pivoted, claiming he didn’t actually care because the market is massive and he was bound to make money anyway.

I pointed out that this is precisely the problem and the very core of the collective delusion in which he was participating. Millions of people are giving away assets just to hold a number, surrendering tangible future benefits for something anyone can create for free with a few strokes of a pen or taps on a keyboard.

I concluded, “Every collective delusion inevitably ends in a harsh awakening. When that happens, no one will be willing to give you assets anymore, and your money will be gone forever.”"
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Today at 08:50:09 AM
Last edit: Today at 09:07:42 AM by aoluain
 #2

This reads more like an advertisement for the FIAT system. The OP is himself part of the
collective delusion in the FIAT system!

The system where governments can create more and more at will and debase what they
have already created.

Quote
I picked up a pen, wrote “2 BTC” on a piece of paper, and said that I had just created exactly the same record. I explained to him that this did not mean that two units of something had miraculously appeared in my possession. There was nothing to analyze to determine whether it was an asset or whether it was valuable.

You just proved my point above, that 'paper never refuses ink'. But really you created nothing,
nobody else but yourself would hold any value to a piece of paper with your #2 written on it.

Quote
I pointed out that what we actually see is a network of computers

In this you are factually correct! That network of computers which remains unbreached is
creating a public digital ledger and is backed by energy, security and a public account of a
capped supply of Bitcoin. Of course its not physical, its digital. Unlike your beloved FIAT
'More' cannot be created.




Thank you for creating this post, anyone doubting Bitcoin will be set on the right path after
reading all the replies.

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Today at 10:54:53 AM
 #3

I got about a third of the way through the OP and stopped reading. What a load of crap, in the words of the great Satoshi Nakomoto himself, ‘If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.’


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Donneski
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Today at 11:24:05 AM
 #4

Op are you actually sharing this article you read in whatever site with us to be convinced that every crap captured their are true or we should convince you that they're not true?

This is BITCOINtalk, majority of the people here believes in the financial redemption Satoshi brought through Bitcoin. This kinda topic will be better appreciated in a platform where digital finance is greatly discouraged.

For most of us here, we've already seen the light Bitcoin brought, and if it means been fooled by Satoshi, we'll happily accept to be called fools forever.

Mariokb (OP)
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Today at 11:26:15 AM
 #5

This reads more like an advertisement for the FIAT system. The OP is himself part of the
collective delusion in the FIAT system!

The system where governments can create more and more at will and debase what they
have already created.

Quote
I picked up a pen, wrote “2 BTC” on a piece of paper, and said that I had just created exactly the same record. I explained to him that this did not mean that two units of something had miraculously appeared in my possession. There was nothing to analyze to determine whether it was an asset or whether it was valuable.

You just proved my point above, that 'paper never refuses ink'. But really you created nothing,
nobody else but yourself would hold any value to a piece of paper with your #2 written on it.

Quote
I pointed out that what we actually see is a network of computers

In this you are factually correct! That network of computers which remains unbreached is
creating a public digital ledger and is backed by energy, security and a public account of a
capped supply of Bitcoin. Of course its not physical, its digital. Unlike your beloved FIAT
'More' cannot be created.




Thank you for creating this post, anyone doubting Bitcoin will be set on the right path after
reading all the replies.
You completely missed the point.

I never denied the existence of a network of computers, a protocol, software, or rules. I explicitly described all of them.

You then replied by describing the network, the protocol, the software, and the rules. In other words, you repeated what I had already said.

What you never identified were the alleged "bitcoins."

Saying that the protocol contains a rule limiting the sum of the numbers associated with addresses does not establish the existence of anything of which those numbers are quantities. A rule governing numbers is not itself the thing those numbers supposedly count.

Likewise, saying the network consumes energy or remains secure does not answer the question. Energy secures the operation of the network. It does not bring two units of anything into existence.

So your reply never addresses my argument. It simply replaces my question with a different one and then answers that instead.
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Today at 11:28:38 AM
 #6

Many thing do not exist by this logic.

I've had my bank call me asking me to explain the purpose of sending *my* money to someone a number of times.

I've had my card frozen once and I couldn't use it until i visited the bank in the morning.

Among the things that don't exist, I will choose the one that doesn't exist the least.




And FWIW OP, I'm not downsizing the importance of the American economy and the US Dollar system for the world, but just FYI not everyone lives in the U.S. and hence could have their own, location specific reasons to own/use Bitcoin.


Op are you actually sharing this article you read in whatever site with us to be convinced that every crap captured their are true or we should convince you that they're not true?

Judging by the OP's nickname and the article author's nickname (they are the same), the OP has written it themselves.


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Mariokb (OP)
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Today at 11:41:36 AM
 #7

Many thing do not exist by this logic.

I've had my bank call me asking me to explain the purpose of sending *my* money to someone a number of times.

I've had my card frozen once and I couldn't use it until i visited the bank in the morning.

Among the things that don't exist, I will choose the one that doesn't exist the least.




And FWIW OP, I'm not downsizing the importance of the American economy and the US Dollar system for the world, but just FYI not everyone lives in the U.S. and hence could have their own, location specific reasons to own/use Bitcoin.


Op are you actually sharing this article you read in whatever site with us to be convinced that every crap captured their are true or we should convince you that they're not true?

Judging by the OP's nickname and the article author's nickname (they are the same), the OP has written it themselves.
Your reply has nothing to do with my argument.

Whether banks freeze accounts, whether the dollar has flaws, or whether someone outside the U.S. prefers Bitcoin is irrelevant to the point I made.

My argument is that before we can discuss value, ownership, or assets, there must first be something that exists. Your reply never addresses that. It simply assumes that "bitcoins" exist and then changes the subject to banking and monetary policy.

Criticizing banks does not establish the existence of "bitcoins" any more than criticizing postal services would establish the existence of unicorns.
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Today at 11:46:50 AM
 #8

You know it's kind of funny, we get these posts from time to time and the OP always leaves after a while and then we see a very similar post if not copy / paste post.

Makes you wonder if it's just one troll coming back around or if it's a group or just random people who for some reason show up at other peoples houses uninvited and shit on their lawn.

You don't show up on a  Corvette discussion board telling people why a Prius is a better car. But for some reason people do that exact same thing here.

-Dave

 
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Today at 11:50:53 AM
 #9

Here is the article that nicely explains it: https://medium.com/@mario.kb99/bitcoins-do-not-exist-debunking-a-collective-delusion-f0afe8fb6568

"Bitcoins Do Not Exist: Debunking a Collective Delusion

Recently, a colleague proudly told me that he had bought “two whole bitcoins” for $120,000 and that he now owned a valuable asset.

I tried to explain that he had fallen victim to a collective delusion and that he had simply given his money away because there are no “bitcoins.”

He opened a crypto app on his phone and showed me a record reading “2 BTC,” insisting that it proved he owned two bitcoins. I pointed out that this proved nothing.

I picked up a pen, wrote “2 BTC” on a piece of paper, and said that I had just created exactly the same record. I explained to him that this did not mean that two units of something had miraculously appeared in my possession. There was nothing to analyze to determine whether it was an asset or whether it was valuable.
Why can't you guys understand that not everything has to be a physical item to be valuable? We live in the 21st century where things are becoming virtual. Your example is also a bad example. You wrote 2 BTC on a piece of paper but what can you do with that writing and piece of paper? Nothing but your friend can actually send his Bitcoin to an exchange and get the equivalent dollars in his bank account, which he can later withdraw via ATM and you'll see a real cash in his hand if physical thing is what you really want to see.

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Today at 11:51:28 AM
Merited by DaveF (1)
 #10

You know it's kind of funny, we get these posts from time to time and the OP always leaves after a while and then we see a very similar post if not copy / paste post.

Makes you wonder if it's just one troll coming back around or if it's a group or just random people who for some reason show up at other peoples houses uninvited and shit on their lawn.

You don't show up on a  Corvette discussion board telling people why a Prius is a better car. But for some reason people do that exact same thing here.

-Dave

Yep, exactly!  But for anyone still wasting time trying to convince this hopeless troll, save your energy.  He almost certainly is just another alt account run by the same notoriously known spammer that keep crawling back into the forum.  You all know him; Antithesis, Antivark, Fxsurfer, Snowshow, niwrad... and who ever else can be added to the list.  He has been on this sad, self-righteous crusade for years trying to "save" us all from our collective delusion.

The irony though is, every single time reality slaps his garbage in the face and refutes him every single time.  Yet he just keeps coming back for more.  Dont feed the troll!

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Donneski
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Today at 11:53:51 AM
 #11

Your reply has nothing to do with my argument.
Nobody seems to say anything that resonates, including the legendary member that's been on the forum since 2017 and judging by your level of conviction of the "inexistence" of Bitcoin, I'm very confident that you'll struggle to get the reply that'll buttress your point

My argument is that before we can discuss value, ownership, or assets, there must first be something that exists. Your reply never addresses that. It simply assumes that "bitcoins" exist and then changes the subject to banking and monetary policy.
So how do we come in? Maybe you already have a template of how you'll want us to respond, I advise you teach is how best to use your response templates  Grin

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Today at 12:15:59 PM
 #12

Many thing do not exist by this logic.

I've had my bank call me asking me to explain the purpose of sending *my* money to someone a number of times.

I've had my card frozen once and I couldn't use it until i visited the bank in the morning.

Among the things that don't exist, I will choose the one that doesn't exist the least.




And FWIW OP, I'm not downsizing the importance of the American economy and the US Dollar system for the world, but just FYI not everyone lives in the U.S. and hence could have their own, location specific reasons to own/use Bitcoin.


Op are you actually sharing this article you read in whatever site with us to be convinced that every crap captured their are true or we should convince you that they're not true?

Judging by the OP's nickname and the article author's nickname (they are the same), the OP has written it themselves.
Your reply has nothing to do with my argument.

Whether banks freeze accounts, whether the dollar has flaws, or whether someone outside the U.S. prefers Bitcoin is irrelevant to the point I made.

My argument is that before we can discuss value, ownership, or assets, there must first be something that exists. Your reply never addresses that. It simply assumes that "bitcoins" exist and then changes the subject to banking and monetary policy.

Criticizing banks does not establish the existence of "bitcoins" any more than criticizing postal services would establish the existence of unicorns.

Hmm... Weird that you didn't get my point, but I'll give you the credit and assume it's me who wasn't clear enough. Although given the lenght of your post, you may expect one's post to be simiarly long to have a ''point'' (which is not happening), I will try to articulate it further.

By your logic, you cannot be sure that any of the things are real. What if the people you see on the screen, whether it's your favourite yotuber, a rockstart or a president, are just AI generated images? What if the ''money'' you referred to doesn't exist i.e. not enough actual value to back it - whether it's labour, productivity, services, goods, doesn't matter. What if we are not real either - what if we are in a simulation? Those questions are all legitimate concerns and more so than yours.

Bitcoin obviously exists at least as much as the other presumably real things in the world AND it has value because the market decided so. You cannot just mint or download it. You can only acquire it by either providing value - energy and computing power or fiat money or whatever you negotiate to provide to a Bitcoin holder in real life via a P2P deal.

There is a valid argument that Bitcoin is even more ''real'' than fiat money and my initial message cited it (although you will find more complete discussions and arguments in other threads of this forum) but I suppose you don't care about this aspect of the Bitcoin movement for now.


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aoluain
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Today at 12:31:04 PM
 #13

This reads more like an advertisement for the FIAT system. The OP is himself part of the
collective delusion in the FIAT system!

The system where governments can create more and more at will and debase what they
have already created.

Quote
I picked up a pen, wrote “2 BTC” on a piece of paper, and said that I had just created exactly the same record. I explained to him that this did not mean that two units of something had miraculously appeared in my possession. There was nothing to analyze to determine whether it was an asset or whether it was valuable.

You just proved my point above, that 'paper never refuses ink'. But really you created nothing,
nobody else but yourself would hold any value to a piece of paper with your #2 written on it.

Quote
I pointed out that what we actually see is a network of computers

In this you are factually correct! That network of computers which remains unbreached is
creating a public digital ledger and is backed by energy, security and a public account of a
capped supply of Bitcoin. Of course its not physical, its digital. Unlike your beloved FIAT
'More' cannot be created.




Thank you for creating this post, anyone doubting Bitcoin will be set on the right path after
reading all the replies.
You completely missed the point.

I never denied the existence of a network of computers, a protocol, software, or rules. I explicitly described all of them.

You then replied by describing the network, the protocol, the software, and the rules. In other words, you repeated what I had already said.

What you never identified were the alleged "bitcoins."


I did, as did you.... as LFC pointed out - you just dont get it

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Pumpsta
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Today at 12:33:14 PM
 #14

I'm sorry but btc is a lot more than just scribbling some units on a piece of paper. I stopped reading there, your take is so off, it's bullshit not worth reading. Learn before writing an essay about it man, u just look stupid Cheesy
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Today at 12:48:40 PM
 #15

"Bitcoins Do Not Exist: Debunking a Collective Delusion
I'm  surprised in 2026 we still have people like this who come out and to be so confident to prove a point by being so ignorant. I was expecting by now even if their are people who never buy bitcoin but atleast to have little understanding. Their are easy ways to make research to get understanding.
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Today at 01:15:38 PM
 #16

Here is the article that nicely explains it: https://medium.com/@mario.kb99/bitcoins-do-not-exist-debunking-a-collective-delusion-f0afe8fb6568

"Bitcoins Do Not Exist: Debunking a Collective Delusion

Recently, a colleague proudly told me that he had bought “two whole bitcoins” for $120,000 and that he now owned a valuable asset.

I tried to explain that he had fallen victim to a collective delusion and that he had simply given his money away because there are no “bitcoins.”

He opened a crypto app on his phone and showed me a record reading “2 BTC,” insisting that it proved he owned two bitcoins. I pointed out that this proved nothing.

I picked up a pen, wrote “2 BTC” on a piece of paper, and said that I had just created exactly the same record. I explained to him that this did not mean that two units of something had miraculously appeared in my possession. There was nothing to analyze to determine whether it was an asset or whether it was valuable.
Why can't you guys understand that not everything has to be a physical item to be valuable? We live in the 21st century where things are becoming virtual. Your example is also a bad example. You wrote 2 BTC on a piece of paper but what can you do with that writing and piece of paper? Nothing but your friend can actually send his Bitcoin to an exchange and get the equivalent dollars in his bank account, which he can later withdraw via ATM and you'll see a real cash in his hand if physical thing is what you really want to see.
You are arguing against something I never claimed. I never argued that only physical things can exist or be valuable. In fact, my article explicitly mentions intangible things such as patents and copyrights, as well as digital ones such as photographs, documents, and software programs. Your reply simply assumes that "bitcoins" exist and then argues that they are valuable because people are willing to pay to have numbers associated with their addresses. But that is precisely the point in dispute. My argument is that there are no "bitcoins." There is nothing corresponding to those numbers that can be analyzed to determine whether it is valuable or whether it is an asset. Pointing out that people currently pay for those numbers does not establish the existence of anything they supposedly represent.
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Today at 01:16:22 PM
 #17

Just because you can touch a dollar bill, does that make it a real form of value? And what is value anyway and where is it derived from?
Many people on this debate will deny labour originates from labour and will rather argue that it's not subjective but rather objective. But how would that make sense. Without labour, what kind of value would exist on this earth?

The value ascribed to money and even gold could be collectively abandoned in 1 single day. The value ascribed to gold held in vaults is 0 compared to the objective value a gold plated cable or circuit can provide. Yet we need only a tiny fraction of gold production for circuits and tangible things. So in the end anyone saying value is objective is disconnected from our world's reality. Monetary value is a manufactured value both for BTC as well as at FIAT money. But for both being compared on the same scale each has its benefits and disadvantages so for certain people indeed FIAT might be more valuable because utility in everyday payments could actually mean more value.


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Mariokb (OP)
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Today at 01:26:17 PM
 #18

Many thing do not exist by this logic.

I've had my bank call me asking me to explain the purpose of sending *my* money to someone a number of times.

I've had my card frozen once and I couldn't use it until i visited the bank in the morning.

Among the things that don't exist, I will choose the one that doesn't exist the least.




And FWIW OP, I'm not downsizing the importance of the American economy and the US Dollar system for the world, but just FYI not everyone lives in the U.S. and hence could have their own, location specific reasons to own/use Bitcoin.


Op are you actually sharing this article you read in whatever site with us to be convinced that every crap captured their are true or we should convince you that they're not true?

Judging by the OP's nickname and the article author's nickname (they are the same), the OP has written it themselves.
Your reply has nothing to do with my argument.

Whether banks freeze accounts, whether the dollar has flaws, or whether someone outside the U.S. prefers Bitcoin is irrelevant to the point I made.

My argument is that before we can discuss value, ownership, or assets, there must first be something that exists. Your reply never addresses that. It simply assumes that "bitcoins" exist and then changes the subject to banking and monetary policy.

Criticizing banks does not establish the existence of "bitcoins" any more than criticizing postal services would establish the existence of unicorns.

Hmm... Weird that you didn't get my point, but I'll give you the credit and assume it's me who wasn't clear enough. Although given the lenght of your post, you may expect one's post to be simiarly long to have a ''point'' (which is not happening), I will try to articulate it further.

By your logic, you cannot be sure that any of the things are real. What if the people you see on the screen, whether it's your favourite yotuber, a rockstart or a president, are just AI generated images? What if the ''money'' you referred to doesn't exist i.e. not enough actual value to back it - whether it's labour, productivity, services, goods, doesn't matter. What if we are not real either - what if we are in a simulation? Those questions are all legitimate concerns and more so than yours.

Bitcoin obviously exists at least as much as the other presumably real things in the world AND it has value because the market decided so. You cannot just mint or download it. You can only acquire it by either providing value - energy and computing power or fiat money or whatever you negotiate to provide to a Bitcoin holder in real life via a P2P deal.

There is a valid argument that Bitcoin is even more ''real'' than fiat money and my initial message cited it (although you will find more complete discussions and arguments in other threads of this forum) but I suppose you don't care about this aspect of the Bitcoin movement for now.
You still haven't addressed my argument. Instead, you've replaced it with a completely different one. My article is not about radical skepticism. I am not questioning whether computers, people, companies, debts, photographs, software, patents, or networks exist. Those things can all be identified and analyzed. You simply assert that Bitcoin obviously exists, but you never identify what it is that exists. You immediately move on to discussing markets, mining, energy, and exchange. None of that establishes the existence of "bitcoins." It only describes how the network operates and how people exchange numbers. Likewise, saying that you cannot mint or download them misses the point entirely. Limit on the sum of numbers, consensus rules, or market demand do not bring two units of something into existence. They merely govern the numbers recorded by the network.

So your reply assumes the very point my article disputes instead of arguing for it.
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Today at 01:36:15 PM
 #19

Just because you can touch a dollar bill, does that make it a real form of value? And what is value anyway and where is it derived from?
Many people on this debate will deny labour originates from labour and will rather argue that it's not subjective but rather objective. But how would that make sense. Without labour, what kind of value would exist on this earth?

The value ascribed to money and even gold could be collectively abandoned in 1 single day. The value ascribed to gold held in vaults is 0 compared to the objective value a gold plated cable or circuit can provide. Yet we need only a tiny fraction of gold production for circuits and tangible things. So in the end anyone saying value is objective is disconnected from our world's reality. Monetary value is a manufactured value both for BTC as well as at FIAT money. But for both being compared on the same scale each has its benefits and disadvantages so for certain people indeed FIAT might be more valuable because utility in everyday payments could actually mean more value.
You've skipped the very first step of my argument. My article is not about whether value is subjective or objective. It is not about whether fiat, gold, or bitcoin is ultimately more valuable.
Before we can debate value, there must first be something that exists to evaluate. You begin by talking about the value of money, gold, and bitcoin as though bitcoins exist and are comparable to existing things such as units of debt(fiat money) or pieces of metal (gold ). That is precisely what my article disputes. There are no "bitcoins" in the first place, there are no units of something, only recorded numbers associated with addresses. If that argument is wrong, then explain where the "bitcoins" are. Simply discussing value assumes the very point under dispute.
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Today at 01:52:09 PM
 #20

Just because you can touch a dollar bill, does that make it a real form of value? And what is value anyway and where is it derived from?
Many people on this debate will deny labour originates from labour and will rather argue that it's not subjective but rather objective. But how would that make sense. Without labour, what kind of value would exist on this earth?

The value ascribed to money and even gold could be collectively abandoned in 1 single day. The value ascribed to gold held in vaults is 0 compared to the objective value a gold plated cable or circuit can provide. Yet we need only a tiny fraction of gold production for circuits and tangible things. So in the end anyone saying value is objective is disconnected from our world's reality. Monetary value is a manufactured value both for BTC as well as at FIAT money. But for both being compared on the same scale each has its benefits and disadvantages so for certain people indeed FIAT might be more valuable because utility in everyday payments could actually mean more value.
You've skipped the very first step of my argument. My article is not about whether value is subjective or objective. It is not about whether fiat, gold, or bitcoin is ultimately more valuable.
Before we can debate value, there must first be something that exists to evaluate. You begin by talking about the value of money, gold, and bitcoin as though bitcoins exist and are comparable to existing things such as units of debt(fiat money) or pieces of metal (gold ). That is precisely what my article disputes. There are no "bitcoins" in the first place, there are no units of something, only recorded numbers associated with addresses. If that argument is wrong, then explain where the "bitcoins" are. Simply discussing value assumes the very point under dispute.

If you see bitcoin is just a recorded number then you have no idea how bitcoin networks operates and how blockchain network thing works, etc. Fiat is physical so it has value is what your argument, but it has no value which is just a printed paper unless the central bank of every country says that it has value so the whole system works on the trust and what if one day everyone wakes up with a news like all the governments decided to abolish paper money so it will not have any value anymore?

But that thing will not happen with bitcoin, gold or anything else.

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..PLAY NOW..
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