Wake up people, there are no bitcoins, Nakamoto fooled you

[ArabBTC]

The fact something exists only virtually, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Otherwise, we must also claim this forum doesn't exist, so do your posts, your account and your arguments.

The simplest and most direct proof that Bitcoin exists I have is the fact I used it to exchange for local currency, having a practical impact over my personal finances.

You can disagree with people who see BTC as a valuable asset, but you can't deny its existence.

Very correct, not every asset must be seen physically, however once majority of persons choose to place value on something it automatically becomes an asset, take money for example it is just paper yet humans choose to accept it as a means of exchange and automatically money became a legal tender and a valuable asset, same way miners of Bitcoin was able to convince investors about bitcoin and it has today turned a great store of value. At OP it’s not until we touch bitcoin physically that we should believe that it is real, i receive alerts from my bank in my phone and believe the values they show me electronically so why won’t i believe bitcoin?

[OsaiEmma]

Well, I love this type of argument. Now to be clear, if I want to give a conclusion to your article, you're basically saying Bitcoin have no backing, those records are not real because there is nothing giving it value, right? (Correct me and articulate it better if I'm wrong)

Op, first of all, why didn't you address the post I quoted below? Since you're defending fiat so much, this post just highlighted the underlying structure and flaw of fiat just as you did with Bitcoin.

It's not a bad thing to have that kind of anti-Bitcoin post here every once in a while. You don’t see them very often, and yet there are people who think that way. The main flaw in the argument is that Bitcoins are mined, and you access them with your private keys. They’re a real thing in the digital world. And if the OP doesn’t believe in that to begin with, they shouldn’t believe in fiat money either, which is created out of thin air. A bank gives you a loan, and depending on where you live, it might have a reserve ratio of 0; if it’s not 0, it’s maybe 2%. In other words, they’re creating money out of thin air at that very moment. This used to be more of a problem when people spent a lot of cash—in bills and coins—and there was a greater risk of bank runs. But nowadays? Banks have it easy; they can keep creating fiat trash with less and less fear that a crowd of people will show up at the door demanding their deposits back in cash.

Now lemme borrow this logic. Just as you stated in the OP, the dollar bills are backed by debt, and it is a note, proof of ownership, or record of owning a part of that debt, right? Same with Bitcoin, Bitcoin is a tool used to transfer value, just as the dollar bill is used to transfer value, Bitcoin is used to transfer values of any kind ranging from debt to services and even the so called dollar bill.

Its backing is in the utility it provides: Just like the dollar bill, Bitcoin provides value in like manner. The reason why it is valued so high is because of its mechanism which is the deflationary feature: since Bitcoin is treated as money, because it satisfies every definition of money, so it can both be inflated and deflated.

Money is any item or verifiable record that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts, such as taxes, in a particular country or socio-economic context.[1] The primary functions which distinguish money are: medium of exchange, a unit of account, a store of value and sometimes, a standard of deferred payment.

If you want to argue how Bitcoin is money, well here it is:

- Bitcoin is used as a means of exchange for goods and services (value exchange).
- Bitcoin can be used to price goods and services because you can clearly see the price of every unit of Bitcoin.
- Bitcoin is used as a store of value: over time, its value increases.
- Bitcoin is accepted as a form of irreversible and final debt settlement between two conceptual parties.

These are the core features of money, and Bitcoin satisfies them all.

Well, if Bitcoin is seen as money, is there any reason to say it doesn't exist? Money is a concept that has to do largely with acceptance and nothing more. If a socio-economy (borrowing from wiki), group of people, a set of society etc accept it as money, then it can be seen and used that way by them thus having the backing of being a valuable asset called money.

Well, let's take a look at the white paper (I'm not quoting cause this is no news and I'm sure we all know this as well), Bitcoin was trying to solve a fundamental problem when it comes to "Commerce of the internet", because there is too much trust in the system: trusting a system that can reverse your transactions, confiscate them, and do all manner of thing to your money leaving you powerless, there was a need to create a trustless-based system that can serve as money while eliminating the issues the trust system comes with. This is just the gist of the whole thing.

So if you will condemn Bitcoin with the false existential claim, then you should do the same with the existing fiat system too.

In conclusion
Since your core argument is about the false existence of Bitcoin due to no real backing, then the same claim should be directed to the dollar and fiat system because Bitcoin's core mechanism is structured exactly like money which is the same with the dollar and fiat mechanism.

[348Judah]

You have seen a lot of people talk about so many contrary opinions regarding Bitcoin and even the founder, so all these are no longer new to us because no one can claim to be the inventor, and we can't expect Satoshi to come out in claiming this either because you will always remain anonymous to the public, what we are after is Bitcoin and not in claiming for ownership or founder because a lot of people who have attempted to doing so without having any verdict that claims their responsibility in creating Bitcoin.

[DaveF]

Just so everyone knows, the OP was banned again. So for now just let this thread fade away till they pop up again.
Not sure why the mods don't lock it or delete it.
I know I am giving it a small bump by posting but at this point the OP got to come back with another account and stir his shit for a week so lets just let it go.

-Dave

[DiMarxist]

Here is the article that nicely explains it: https://medium.com/@mario.kb99/bitcoins-do-not-exist-debunking-a-collective-delusion-f0afe8fb6568

"Bitcoins Do Not Exist: Debunking a Collective Delusion

Recently, a colleague proudly told me that he had bought “two whole bitcoins” for $120,000 and that he now owned a valuable asset.

I tried to explain that he had fallen victim to a collective delusion and that he had simply given his money away because there are no “bitcoins.”

He opened a crypto app on his phone and showed me a record reading “2 BTC,” insisting that it proved he owned two bitcoins. I pointed out that this proved nothing.

I picked up a pen, wrote “2 BTC” on a piece of paper, and said that I had just created exactly the same record. I explained to him that this did not mean that two units of something had miraculously appeared in my possession. There was nothing to analyze to determine whether it was an asset or whether it was valuable.

He responded that the creation of Satoshi Nakamoto, named “Bitcoin,” stores his bitcoins. Accepting this for the sake of argument, I suggested we look closely at that creation to see what we could actually find.

I pointed out that what we actually see is a network of computers storing a database of user addresses, each associated with a number. His address, for example, is associated with the number 2. We also see the network’s protocol, the software that implements it, and its rules. One of those rules limits the sum of all numbers associated with addresses to 21 million. But nowhere do we find two units that we could call ‘bitcoins’ and analyze. There are no two digital items, such as documents, photographs, or software programs; no two intangible items, such as patents or copyrights; and no two physical items, such as metal coins.

“At that point, my colleague changed the subject and brought up fiat currencies and stocks. He argued that when people hold dollars or shares of Apple stock, they also just have records such as ‘100 USD’ or ‘5 AAPL.’”

I responded, “This is not true. What they actually have are units of an existing thing. The record merely tells them how many of those units they hold.”

“In the case of Apple stock, that existing thing is a company. Because the company exists, we can analyze whether owning units of it provides any benefits. It does. The company can distribute profits, execute buybacks, or liquidate its assets. Those future benefits make the shares valuable to their holders and therefore an asset.

The same principle applies to dollars. In their case, the existing thing is debt. Because that debt exists, we can analyze whether holding units of it provides any benefits.”

My colleague interrupted, asking how that could be. He argued that, unlike Apple, the bank does not pay him profits or transfer its property simply because he holds cash or a bank balance.

I responded, “This is where many people get confused. It is not the bank that provides the benefits, but the bank’s debtors.

Commercial banks and the Fed create dollars as loans to businesses, individuals, or the state. That’s why dollars are units of an existing debt. Those debtors are legally required to repay their debts.

OP if Bitcoin don't actually exist what are you doing in a forum like this that, is dedicated to promoting Bitcoin and creating awareness about Bitcoin, just for you and anyone still doubtful of Bitcoin to know. Bitcoin has grown so successful that we don't need anyone approval to believe that Bitcoin don't exist and that it's actually an illusion.

This is unbelievable reading your thread which to me is copy and past from the article that you put the link , it obvious that the so called person who was trying to discourage his friends doesn't understand what he was saying. Because even your bank account balance what you see when you open your bank app is just figures, which will let you know that you have such amount of money in your account.

Bitcoin doesn't need any one to prove that it doesn't exist or not. The Foot print of Bitcoin is everywhere and is enough for anyone still doubtful to see. For your information Bitcoin is here to stay and nothing is changing that we don't need your approval.