perception of Bitcoin in mainstream-discussions and -media

[Botnake]

Why is it, that Bitcoin still seems to have low-interest, low-visiblity, low-trust and low-understanding in most parts of society.
Is this just my personal experience, am I way off?

We pay so much attention to what the public is saying, what they are hyping and what they want people to believe.
Low-interest? Yes that's because a lot of people thinks that they can't afford bitcoin anymore because of the price.
Low-visibility? I don't think so, bitcoin has been discussed many times on the media, what other visibility does it need?
Low-trust? Yes for people that are not into bitcoin, No for those who are into bitcoin. Why can't you trust what you have in your own custody?
Low-understanding? Of course, you don't invest in what you don't understand but it is better to seek understanding of it now than regret later.

Those who really hate the idea of bitcoin will always have negative narratives for bitcoin, bitcoin can't please everyone and we can't expect for the people to accept bitcoin just like how we have accepted the nature of bitcoin.

Some people can be a lot understanding and patient for bitcoin, while others can be more impatient and give negative critics because that's what they feel about bitcoin. And unfortunately, we can't change their bitcoin narratives, but that does not mean that changes are not possible in the future. Some negative critics have been showing positivity to bitcoin now.

[Alpha Marine]

In my opinion, people are willing to trust almost anything except a system that isn't controlled by the government. They fear that one day they will wake up looking foolish, and I think they are secretly waiting for the whole system to collapse.

I try to see things from their point of view sometimes. It's not like they trust the government or the centralised system, but it's something they're used to. It's something they understand. Bitcoin is a whole new thing, and that is why it's difficult for people to accept it. Even the ones that understand it and how it works just can't accept it because it's not what they are used to. Something about the devil you know and all.
They're just looking for an "I told you so" moment.
I knew somebody who trusted a Ponzi system, but was convinced crypto was a scam.

​Recent security hacks probably gave them a sense of satisfaction. It isn't that they lack knowledge, they simply lack faith in a decentralized system.

The satisfaction they have now is a trend. It will wear off very soon, but not that it matters. With time, all these will be forgotten. I've seen different social media posts of people using the ColdCard incident to score points as to why self custody sucks. They don't care about the actual problem, or what really happened, they just want to win the debate.

[Faisal2202]

You are probably too young to remember a time when digital currencies were illegal, but yes, when Bitcoin started, all digital currencies were effectively illegal, and if Bitcoin was not decentralized (say owned by a single legal entity) then it would have been shut down. That's the entire reason why Bitcoin is decentralized: because it wouldn't exist if it wasn't.

A few years later, and largely based on Bitcoin's popularity, digital currencies became effectively legal, which why (for instance) ETH was able to move to a Proof-of-Stake architecture.

Bitcoin was never a "scam", but that doesn't mean it fit into financial regulations.

Haha, I think I hit a nerve. Anyway, my age doesn't change the facts here because I don't think it started as something illegal. I might be young (according to you), but I can still read the history. I know what the sentiment was back then and how people viewed it.

You are clearly conflating a digital currency being illegal with businesses using it being subject to AML laws.

Regarding your claim about decentralization, I will agree with it to some extent, if it were centralized, it would probably be shut down. But don't you think that's a pretty obvious outcome that someone like Satoshi would have considered, whose idea was built around decentralization from the start?

I am not saying it can't be used for dirty work, but I am also saying that anything can be used for money laundering, the dollar, gold, etc.

[Obim34]

- if no, what could be the reasons and how to make a change? is just another decade needed? that's what I though about 7 years ago... now I'm not so sure anymore.[/i][/b]

I'm not a big fan of compelling people to do what they rejected from the onset. If they needed conviction to like Bitcoin, you will also need conviction to keep them when they start seeing something different from expectations, which is volatility that we cannot control.

The journey here is personal, all you need do is give them the chance to change on their own. A few people who don't see Bitcoin for what it is might need more time to convince themselves, sometimes it is difficult to accept the truth after denying oneself for a long time.

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

Why is it, that Bitcoin still seems to have low-interest, low-visiblity, low-trust and low-understanding in most parts of society.
Is this just my personal experience, am I way off?

The projection will always be negative because they understand the power that Bitcoin holds. They'll always claim like they accept the innovation but deep down they want it to fail because they understand the power that the currency holds. The government are doing all they can to paint Bitcoin bad and the elites are also involved in the scheme to decline Bitcoin. They're succeeding now but they won't last long that's all I can say. The media are involved in the propaganda but they won't succeed as we'll always find a way to make the society adopt  the currency and bringing in new adoptees to contribute to the growth of the industry. The mainstream can think whatever they want but they can't force the common man to ignore the opportunity they see in front of them, all their effort are just temporary as the community has the final say at the end of the day.

[Sanitough]

I don't think bitcoin remained low visibility in some communities because social media is everywhere, and bitcoin is all over the social media. So most likely, those who have been creating negative narratives of bitcoin have been seeing bitcoin promotions online, and since they don't align with it, and we have freedom of expression, therefore they can always leave negative comments for bitcoin.

But who cares? People can always hate bitcoin, they aren't relevant to bitcoin as well. Bitcoin continue to progress even without them, but they can always make money with bitcoin by having it as a content and raise high engagement from those lovers and haters of bitcoin.

[Rengga Jati]

Those who really hate the idea of bitcoin will always have negative narratives for bitcoin, bitcoin can't please everyone and we can't expect for the people to accept bitcoin just like how we have accepted the nature of bitcoin.

Always remember: "haters gonna hate."
This is different from people whose minds simply aren't open to Bitcoin yet. they could change if they eventually gain a logical understanding of it. However, the situation is different when someone has already decided to hate Bitcoin. regardless of the reason. They are going to hate it no matter what. So, just let it be. We don't need to dwell on what they say or spread. Because it only negatively affects market sentiment. We shouldn't let it harm us or become a burden on our minds.

[ColdLava40]

I try to see things from their point of view sometimes. It's not like they trust the government or the centralised system, but it's something they're used to. It's something they understand. Bitcoin is a whole new thing, and that is why it's difficult for people to accept it. Even the ones that understand it and how it works just can't accept it because it's not what they are used to. Something about the devil you know and all.
They're just looking for an "I told you so" moment.
I knew somebody who trusted a Ponzi system, but was convinced crypto was a scam.

True, that's another view, they choose to believe in what they know and not what they don't understand.
Its normally going to be difficult to put 100% trust on something new as Bitcoin buh bitcoin has stayed long enough to price itself worthy of being trusted.
 

The satisfaction they have now is a trend. It will wear off very soon, but not that it matters. With time, all these will be forgotten. I've seen different social media posts of people using the ColdCard incident to score points as to why self custody sucks. They don't care about the actual problem, or what really happened, they just want to win the debate.

They will point fingers just to find faults. Some are genuine while majority are just going to be in for the content, views and engagement on their socials. Things like this should not be used for jokes because it creates a wrong narrative in the mind of many.

[Natalim]

Why is it, that Bitcoin still seems to have low-interest, low-visiblity, low-trust and low-understanding in most parts of society.
Is this just my personal experience, am I way off?

The projection will always be negative because they understand the power that Bitcoin holds. They'll always claim like they accept the innovation but deep down they want it to fail because they understand the power that the currency holds. The government are doing all they can to paint Bitcoin bad and the elites are also involved in the scheme to decline Bitcoin. They're succeeding now but they won't last long that's all I can say. The media are involved in the propaganda but they won't succeed as we'll always find a way to make the society adopt  the currency and bringing in new adoptees to contribute to the growth of the industry. The mainstream can think whatever they want but they can't force the common man to ignore the opportunity they see in front of them, all their effort are just temporary as the community has the final say at the end of the day.

People will always have something good or bad to say about bitcoin. Let's face it, bitcoin is bad for those who are close-minded about knowing the real value and potentials of bitcoin, but bitcoin is a music to someone's ears if he believes that bitcoin will create vast of opportunities that are life-changing.

At the end of the day, its not the people that will decide the future of bitcoin, but its the successful achievements made by bitcoin that will determine whether bitcoin is a huge threat or a massive help for the people. Bitcoin is a currency and a store of value, and it will continue to grow of course with the help of its bitcoin community.

[Japinat]

Your perception and mine are practically the same.

But perhaps we differ in our reactions. I don't even care to ask "how to make a change?" It seems to me it's enough that Bitcoin is there on the sidelines waiting for anybody to finally mature and realize there's something terribly wrong with the system and they need a way out.

For me it's best for Bitcoin supporters to be passive. They could switch into active mode once somebody comes and asks questions. Outside of it, the change that we think is necessary might even sound ridiculous to somebody else, and so it's better not to kind of indoctrinate them or impose our own philosophies on them however logical they may seem.

And no matter how we try to stick with bitcoin logic, people will always have their final say so I think let's not pour too much effort on that. People will appreciate bitcoin when its time to, just like those bitcoin critics that are now supporting bitcoin that best way they can.

We should learn to accept the fact that we all have different philosophies with bitcoin, theirs are not wrong, they just see bitcoin the other way around.

[PrivacyG]

I realized a lot of people are almost like robots only echoing the 'right things to say' and the 'right way to think'.  And it happens around the Bitcoin subject too.  To a point where just like you, I some times wonder if our community is really as large as I thought it is.  Because when you do go out in the real World, you can see mostly only negative opinions they can not really argue.  Their only arguments are 'this is what I heard', 'this is what the News said' et cetera.

It would take a lot to finally get people to a point where they even CONSIDER learning about Bitcoin and the way it works.  But interestingly.  The same people who say Bitcoin is bad do not seem to have such a negative opinion when News talk about Micro Strategy, Bitcoin Bank adoption et cetera.  It is dubious.

All of this makes me very curious how real the 'Dead Internet Theory' is.  Because when you think about it.  We are replying to each other but many of the people around us on Bitcoin Talk are actually one single person, bots, Artificial Intelligence replies et cetera.  I would say even the negative comments you mentioned in these Bitcoin articles are also probably bots.  But maybe I am only too paranoid.

As long as people do not stop echoing the 'right things' and finally start thinking for them selves, this is how the World will look.  We do live in some kind of 'bubble'.  Or.  Maybe the rest of the World actually does.

[stadus]

I don't pay too much attention on that front either, but my past experience didn't seem that different from yours. It's a waste of time trying to discuss it against someone with a strong prejudice either. I only follow what's the new law updates and whatnot to see how the market actually evolves. Probably won't change anytime soon though.

Funny thing is, I see crypto being mentioned here and there on various TV dramas in Asia. Sometimes on the negatives, sometimes on the neutral side of it, and so on. I can only say the exposure does it increase.

And with the increased exposure of bitcoin these days, people become more open what bitcoin is all about. The good thing is, some really end up with thorough research so they can clearly understand the nature and purpose of bitcoin.

Those who say negative to bitcoin, that's also their own perception, because that's probably the effect of bitcoin to them. But we don't have to stoop down to their level and justify bitcoin, that's only a waste of time and effort.

People will definitely be loving bitcoin if they are open to risk and future opportunities, but if they want at a safer option and stick with fiat, they will always end up doubting bitcoin.

[legiteum]

Haha, I think I hit a nerve. Anyway, my age doesn't change the facts here because I don't think it started as something illegal.

Bitcoin was not legal in the USA when it began. That's a fact, not an opinion.

I might be young (according to you), but I can still read the history. I know what the sentiment was back then and how people viewed it.

You are clearly conflating a digital currency being illegal with businesses using it being subject to AML laws.

If you think it was legal to trade in Bitcoin in the USA when it began, you are reading history incorrectly.

Bitcoin was not, until very recently, "officially" legal (see: the Genius Act et. al.), but it quickly became defacto legal in that the US and other governments declined to prosecute its use and declined to prosecute companies that made businesses out of it. Perhaps three years after it was introduced, virtually nobody had a reason to change their behavior based on Bitcoin's legal status, so it was effectively "legal" even though it technically was not.

Bitcoin itself is not subject to AML regulations, but businesses at the edges (trading BTC for sovereign currencies) are.

Regarding your claim about decentralization, I will agree with it to some extent, if it were centralized, it would probably be shut down. But don't you think that's a pretty obvious outcome that someone like Satoshi would have considered, whose idea was built around decentralization from the start?

I am not saying it can't be used for dirty work, but I am also saying that anything can be used for money laundering, the dollar, gold, etc.

Many things like Bitcoin came before it, and they were shut down. This is not theoretical. Satoshi specifically focused on the problem of the 51% attack which he solved using the proof-of-work scheme. Before Bitcoin, there were already many decentralized digital currency projects but they never lasted because of the 51% attack problem.

Many things can be used for money laundering, but all of those things are carefully regulated as well. When Bitcoin began, regulations hadn't caught up with it yet, and many in the community celebrated this, and used it for money laundering, tax evasion, and evasion of international sanctions (e.g. funding terrorists). This culture around Bitcoin is still quite pervasive, and I argue that this is highly detrimental to Bitcoin's brand. If somebody's response to Russia using Bitcoin so they can slaughter more children in Ukraine is, "oh good, Bitcoin is doing its job", then that's a bad look. You don't see gun companies advertising the number of innocent victims their weapons claim, even though it (unfortunately) happens. The Bitcoin community hasn't fully learned this yet.

[Rockstarguy]

- friends that are non-crypto related (from sports, other interests or just old-school folks I've known for over a decade) just don't care almost at all about crypto. I have been talking about it a lot with them when I was still new to it for a period of maybe two years, on and off, but after a while I just resigned and don't really care anymore if they care.

I draw my own conclusions from my circle:

• They don't want to bother with security 
• They don't want to take even a single cent of risk 
• They have their own stable way of making money 
• You don't seem like someone worth taking seriously
• Financially, they are several levels above you.

I would agree with your point. I think for me they just don't want to take the risk because they feel they are content with the amount they earn. They don't really care about their future, and their main concern is about the present. Some of these people know how to raise money for themselves, and they are surrounded by loan funding. It is not as if they don't understand Bitcoin; of course, they do.

If one doesn't have that investment mindset and the ability to accumulate from small investments, investing in Bitcoin won't be of any concern to them. Even if the world accepts Bitcoin, not everyone will still invest in or even buy Bitcoin, which I think is their own reason, best known to them.

[macson]

- friends that are non-crypto related (from sports, other interests or just old-school folks I've known for over a decade) just don't care almost at all about crypto. I have been talking about it a lot with them when I was still new to it for a period of maybe two years, on and off, but after a while I just resigned and don't really care anymore if they care.

That means they're simply not interested and don't see Bitcoin as something they need right now. If they were interested in it, they'd appreciate your efforts to introduce Bitcoin to them --- but since they don't know anything about it and aren't interested at all, they just think you're rambling.

Well, that shouldn't hurt your feelings. People just don't share the same interest when it comes to Bitcoin. After all, you haven't lost anything; they're the ones who are actually missing out by passing up the chance to gain free knowledge about Bitcoin.

[Kryptowerk]

- interestingly enough I know a lot of folks with great informatics, mathematics, general IT skills that have not only skepticism but a strong distaste and almost hate towards Bitcoin. filled with ridiculous prejudices, completely ignoring the real revolutionary concept of Bitcoin.

Most people are negatively influenced by a couple of associations:

First, the general idea that Bitcoin is a hyper-speculative asset. This comes above all from the crap that many crypto influencers communicate, that Bitcoin will "go to millions of dollars" and make you rich quick if you follow "my exact strategy". I think even people like Adam Back (who undoubtly has merits) are not helpful with their extreme predictions.

Then, the association with people like Elon Musk and Donald Trump, and Saylor with his "wonky" communication is also not really helping. These people are immensely unpopular in 90% of all countries.

And finally the general sentiment about the altcoin market with its scammers and ICO hypes. For people not knowing about the differences with Bitcoin it is difficult to separate both. They're all "crypto" ...

How to improve that? My recommendations would be:

- don't laugh about "nocoiners". That just looks cult-like. And nobody knows if Bitcoin will still make anybody rich who is investing now.
- unfollow all of these crap influencers and clarify to everybody that "they're not Bitcoin". (They're simply people who want to make money with low effort, and they would jump on every topic.)
- clarify that Trump is also just a politician who wants to use Bitcoin and crypto (trump coin) for his own benefit. Nobody can prevent that, but we can prevent voting them or giving them attention.
- if someone shows a minimum level of interest, take your time to explain that censorship resistance (Bitcoin's main solution to a real problem) is not only an advantage for criminals. It helps everybody against several threats, for example: authoritarian tendencies of the State, thieves and hackers (see the anti-KYC thread) and greedy companies who want your payment data to offer services like insurance.

You made some good points, some of which where already floating on my mind before.
There are just a bit too many stains, old and recent on Bitcoin.
Having Trump, with a majority of people (not votes!) not trusting him in the US alone and an even bigger opposition to his policies in most non-US countries, his crypto-endorsements really make it easy to increase the bad look.

And I almost forgot about the general perception of "crypto almost = Bitcoin". Which further increases the muddying of what Bitcoin actually is and makes it unique in contrast to thousands of random shitcoin-clones with mostly empty promises, pump-and-dump schemes, ICO-cash-grabs, fishy influencer ramblings etc.

Regarding your recommendations: generally good ones and a nice idea I would like to see more here in the thread.
Maybe at some point I'll write a summary with all the positive ideas on the issue.

I realized a lot of people are almost like robots only echoing the 'right things to say' and the 'right way to think'.  And it happens around the Bitcoin subject too.  To a point where just like you, I some times wonder if our community is really as large as I thought it is.  Because when you do go out in the real World, you can see mostly only negative opinions they can not really argue.  Their only arguments are 'this is what I heard', 'this is what the News said' et cetera.

It would take a lot to finally get people to a point where they even CONSIDER learning about Bitcoin and the way it works.  But interestingly.  The same people who say Bitcoin is bad do not seem to have such a negative opinion when News talk about Micro Strategy, Bitcoin Bank adoption et cetera.  It is dubious.

All of this makes me very curious how real the 'Dead Internet Theory' is.  Because when you think about it.  We are replying to each other but many of the people around us on Bitcoin Talk are actually one single person, bots, Artificial Intelligence replies et cetera.  I would say even the negative comments you mentioned in these Bitcoin articles are also probably bots.  But maybe I am only too paranoid.

As long as people do not stop echoing the 'right things' and finally start thinking for them selves, this is how the World will look.  We do live in some kind of 'bubble'.  Or.  Maybe the rest of the World actually does.

Regarding your bot-paranoia I believe it's not as bad as some dead-internet-maximalists  believe - most people are communicating online, a lot. The average time spent on the phone including social media is disgustingly high. But it's still great to be aware that A TON of manipulation, bot-spam-propaganda etc. is going on. Especially in comment sections these days.

And regarding your echoing comment, I fully agree - I see this happen a lot in topics that are complex (most are) and where people are just picking up random headlines etc. but are practicing a "bad discussion culture" (often times ego driven) where they don't want to admit that they just don't know or are generally lacking information. Instead they form an opinion on the spot or already have formed it by the minimal amount of random info digested before.

[Alphakilo]

- friends that are non-crypto related (from sports, other interests or just old-school folks I've known for over a decade) just don't care almost at all about crypto. I have been talking about it a lot with them when I was still new to it for a period of maybe two years, on and off, but after a while I just resigned and don't really care anymore if they care.

That means they're simply not interested and don't see Bitcoin as something they need right now. If they were interested in it, they'd appreciate your efforts to introduce Bitcoin to them --- but since they don't know anything about it and aren't interested at all, they just think you're rambling.

Well, that shouldn't hurt your feelings. People just don't share the same interest when it comes to Bitcoin. After all, you haven't lost anything; they're the ones who are actually missing out by passing up the chance to gain free knowledge about Bitcoin.

My perception about Bitcoin isn't skewed because I believe it is a risky investment that's worth a shot just like stocks or forex or even starting a business. It is only with proper understanding that this naysayers become convinced and join the band wagon of bitcoiners, perhaps it might even be too late at the time they come around, but that doesn't stop we the believers from doing our best and doing it right to gain the best out of it since we are already hooked in and are already part of the system.

I think think what most people lack is a proper understanding of how to hold or save money like digital currency, they think Bitcoin is less profitable when traded like other crypto currencies of which they are right , but the best returns comes from long term investment or holding plan of which so much is demanded to fulfill this.