Upcoming Bitcoin Hard Fork, which chain will you stay on?

[dim_mak5]

Hello,

I was tomorrow Saturday the bitcoin chain will split because the miners will not signal for the BIP-110 soft fork. BIP-110 users saying if miners don't support them then they are gonna brick their mining rigs and make bitcoin into POS Proof of Stake not POW Proof of Work.

So this will be like 2017 where it was Bitcoin Vs Bitcoin Cash?

So what do we call these 2 chains in the upcoming split?:

- BTCF Bitcoin Filtered for BIP-110 Or

- BTCU Bitcoin Unfiltered for the bitcoin now. Bitcoin unfiltered sounds more decentralized but BIP-110 users say BIP-110 bitcoin filters out junk & spam & csam and prevents bitcoin being used as a upload cloud storage for junk files that bloats the blockchain that requires a lot of hard drive space to download transactions and they want btc for monetary transactions only not as a forever cloud storage. But Bitcoin core argument to this is bitcoin is decentralized free for anyone to use the btc blockchain on how they like kinda like free speech so if a btc user wants to upload dodgy content to it then there's nothing stopping them that truly proves decentralization but BIP-110 users say they don't want to risk downloading this junk on their computers that takes up their hard drive space and go jail.

There's 10000s of other altcoins out there, so if a user wants to upload a picture of a taproot wizard NFT then cant they simply use Ethereum or Solana for this instead of Bitcoin

What was the true intention behind the TapRoot softfork back in 2021. Bitcoiners were sold that Taproot bought all these great updates like improved security, privacy and such however since the taproot update Bitcoin became like Ethereum with these Wizard NFTs and such.

Was it Taproot Wizards themselves were behind the Taproot update back in 2021?

So which chain will you choose and which chain will you sell your duplicate coins on?

[NotFuzzyWarm]

BTCU? No, the original, unfiltered non-BIP remains BTC (BTC). A new coin forking off does not change the originals name.

It is up to backers of the new coin to find a new name for theirs. No one here cares what Luke's doomed crapcoin will be named as it will become an altcoin.

[Iranus]

So this will be like 2017 where it was Bitcoin Vs Bitcoin Cash?

I wouldn't call it an exact repeat of Bitcoin vs Bitcoin Cash.

BCH was a hard fork and a new chain was created with different consensus rule. In the case of BIP-110, the proposed change is a contentious soft fork. Here, enforcing nodes can reject some old valid block and transaction. So both the mechanism and activation politics are different.

So if there is a split, someone can give name like BTCF or BTCU as per their convenience, but these will not be official Bitcoin chain name. And there is no rule that just because two chain are created, both will have same value.

[dim_mak5]

How about BTCL Bitcoin Light? Light version of the blockchain without all the spam and junk?

BTCT Bitcoin Taproot for the current bitcoin for those who like pics of wizards on their chain? Or BTCS Bitcoin Storage, free cloud storage for everyone, upload whatever you want to it. Is it free or what are the fees to upload a picture of a wizard to it?

[legiteum]

So what do we call these 2 chains in the upcoming split?:
[...]

Who is "we"? What I call it and you call it doesn't matter. The initial deciders will be the major holders of BTC like Michael Saylor, and major brokers like CoinBase and Binance. If there's a dispute--as in, who is legally allowed to use the trademark, "Bitcoin" and the BTC symbol, the ultimate decider may well be the US government since they will allow one side to use the Bitcoin trademark and prosecute the other side for fraud if they try to call their fork that.

So now that we know that no poster's opinion here has any relevance to this answer, does anybody have any idea where the major players who will actually decide stand on this issue?

[pooya87]

not signal for the BIP-110 soft fork.

That's right, it is a soft fork not a hard fork as your title says. It is causing a chain split (or more accurately: they are going to fork off) because it has very little to no support.

BIP-110 users saying if miners don't support them then they are gonna brick their mining rigs and make bitcoin into POS Proof of Stake not POW Proof of Work.

If these people had any mining rigs, they would have signaled for it and the hashrate supporting this malicious fork would have had higher percentage support.

So this will be like 2017 where it was Bitcoin Vs Bitcoin Cash?

Yes, but it is somewhere between bcash and BIP-148 both of which were malicious since they broke one of the most important Bitcoin Principles which was consensus.

So what do we call these 2 chains in the upcoming split?:
- BTCF Bitcoin Filtered for BIP-110 Or
- BTCU Bitcoin Unfiltered for the bitcoin now.

Bitcoin is Bitcoin, there is no need to come up with a new name. Anything that forks off is a shitcoin and it is best if we categorize all of them with the same name: shitcoin or copycoin.
I also don't like using "filtered/unfiltered" terms since they are misleading and to some extent wrong. Maliciousness of BIP-110 is NOT because it is trying to introduce a so called "filter", it is because it is trying to force it on the network without reaching consensus (the >90%-95% support), exactly why I've always called BIP-148 a malicious attempt even though it was pushing SegWit.

But Bitcoin core argument to this is bitcoin is decentralized free for anyone to use the btc blockchain on how they like kinda like free speech so if a btc user wants to upload dodgy content to it then there's nothing stopping them that truly proves decentralization but BIP-110 users say they don't want to risk downloading this junk on their computers that takes up their hard drive space and go jail.

That's bullshit arguments and if we go down that path then it is very easy to make the same arguments about bitcoin core and it performing heavy "censorship" since core rejects a lot of transactions as non-standard...

So which chain will you choose and which chain will you sell your duplicate coins on?

Isn't it obvious? A malicious fork that only has 2% support is not something to even think about. It may not even come to existence.

[Abiky]

How about BTCL Bitcoin Light? Light version of the blockchain without all the spam and junk?

BTCT Bitcoin Taproot for the current bitcoin for those who like pics of wizards on their chain? Or BTCS Bitcoin Storage, free cloud storage for everyone, upload whatever you want to it. Is it free or what are the fees to upload a picture of a wizard to it?

Nah, it should be more like "Bitcoin Censored". Because it promises to censor Ordinals and other "unecessary" transactions on the Blockchain. Keeping BTC strictly for financial purposes, harms innovation. The network needs variety to become bigger and stronger than ever.

I understand purists want to make the Blockchain leaner and more efficient. But censorship is not the answer. Fortunately, the upcoming upgrade is a soft fork, so there's little chance of a chain split in the future. This is not like the BCH/BSV era. Those days are nothing but over.

[collardelay]

Hello,

I was tomorrow Saturday the bitcoin chain will split because the miners will not signal for the BIP-110 soft fork. BIP-110 users saying if miners don't support them then they are gonna brick their mining rigs and make bitcoin into POS Proof of Stake not POW Proof of Work.

So this will be like 2017 where it was Bitcoin Vs Bitcoin Cash?

So what do we call these 2 chains in the upcoming split?:

- BTCF Bitcoin Filtered for BIP-110 Or

- BTCU Bitcoin Unfiltered for the bitcoin now. Bitcoin unfiltered sounds more decentralized but BIP-110 users say BIP-110 bitcoin filters out junk & spam & csam and prevents bitcoin being used as a upload cloud storage for junk files that bloats the blockchain that requires a lot of hard drive space to download transactions and they want btc for monetary transactions only not as a forever cloud storage. But Bitcoin core argument to this is bitcoin is decentralized free for anyone to use the btc blockchain on how they like kinda like free speech so if a btc user wants to upload dodgy content to it then there's nothing stopping them that truly proves decentralization but BIP-110 users say they don't want to risk downloading this junk on their computers that takes up their hard drive space and go jail.

There's 10000s of other altcoins out there, so if a user wants to upload a picture of a taproot wizard NFT then cant they simply use Ethereum or Solana for this instead of Bitcoin

What was the true intention behind the TapRoot softfork back in 2021. Bitcoiners were sold that Taproot bought all these great updates like improved security, privacy and such however since the taproot update Bitcoin became like Ethereum with these Wizard NFTs and such.

Was it Taproot Wizards themselves were behind the Taproot update back in 2021?

So which chain will you choose and which chain will you sell your duplicate coins on?

Correct me but isn't BIP-110 intended to be temporary for a year or so? I don't think it's right for the proponents to bring about all this confusion about a new chain, after all Bitcoin is all about consensus. They should just drop the entire thing if the majority are against the new changes.

[BlackBoss_]

I was tomorrow Saturday the bitcoin chain will split because the miners will not signal for the BIP-110 soft fork. BIP-110 users saying if miners don't support them then they are gonna brick their mining rigs and make bitcoin into POS Proof of Stake not POW Proof of Work.

Proof of Work to stay, not Proof of Stake to go with.
Proof of Work with Bitcoin blockchain is a strong, secure and decentralized one so there is no solid reason for moving from PoW to Proof of Stake, that will be either less decentralized to more centralized, and likely more easily be attacked.

So this will be like 2017 where it was Bitcoin Vs Bitcoin Cash?

BCash failed, and many Bforks failed because they're shitcoins.
How many Bitcoin forks are there? You will be surprised.
I believe that any future forks from Bitcoin will be next failures.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

So which chain will you choose and which chain will you sell your duplicate coins on?

I don't think this requires rocket science to figure out. Since its inception, there is only one chain that has remained carrying the Bitcoin name. The rest are just shitcoins that don't survive/lose popularity as time goes on

You damn well know which chain most of us are going to stay on if a hard fork ever even happened 

[legiteum]

So which chain will you choose and which chain will you sell your duplicate coins on?

I don't think this requires rocket science to figure out. Since its inception, there is only one chain that has remained carrying the Bitcoin name. The rest are just shitcoins that don't survive/lose popularity as time goes on

You damn well know which chain most of us are going to stay on if a hard fork ever even happened 

Sure, there has always been one chain that the major brokers, wallets and whales have chosen--and one chain that the US government allows to still be called "Bitcoin" without being prosecuted for trademark violations.

But which one will they choose this time? Do you know? I don't...

[athanred]

Correct me but isn't BIP-110 intended to be temporary for a year or so?

It is "declared" to be "temporary". The code says, that non-signalling blocks are invalid on BIP-110 chain. And the signalled vs non-signalled blocks can tell you, what will be the speed of each chain. Which means, that soon, many wallets will start using different locktimes, when they will check the current block height, and when different versions of the same transaction will be confirmed on different chains, it will be exponentially harder and harder to bring them back. Which means, that when BIP-110 rules will expire 52,416 blocks later (which could take more than one year on BIP-110 chain, depending on their difficulty adjustments), then conflicting transactions will make it hard to reach the same UTXO set again (because even if BIP-110 will expire, then a transaction violating these rules can be already confirmed on the non-BIP-110 chain, so it wouldn't matter for already spent coins at all).

But which one will they choose this time? Do you know? I don't...

It should be obvious, if you count signalling vs non-signalling blocks. But well, each user can pick its own client, and there is nobody to blame, if the majority is using something else. Using altcoins is not a crime.

[Charles-Tim]

So which chain will you choose and which chain will you sell your duplicate coins on?

I think users will have same amount of coins on both chain if there is a hard fork. Is this one different? Different or not different, I know that I can not support BIP 110. It will become to next altcoins that forked from bitcoin. The more coins that forked from bitcoin, the more they are becoming useless after some pump, they dump.

[Danish Ali]

I was tomorrow Saturday the bitcoin chain will split because the miners will not signal for the BIP-110 soft fork. BIP-110 users saying if miners don't support them then they are gonna brick their mining rigs and make bitcoin into POS Proof of Stake not POW Proof of Work.

That is not correct. PoW will not change to PoS. The BIP-110 issue is about data restrictions and consensus rules. And according to the current report miner signaling was less than 1%.

So this will be like 2017 where it was Bitcoin Vs Bitcoin Cash?

Don't you think it is too early to say that this will be equal to the 2017 Bitcoin Cash split? In 2017 there was an actual hard fork dispute. BIP-110 is a soft fork proposal which changes the rules for upgraded nodes. And yes there can be a risk of a split if incompatible groups follow different chains, but this is not automatically BTC vs Bitcoin Cash 2.0.

In Bitcoin miners are important but nodes also enforce the consensus rules. So this is the interesting part of BIP-110, that enforcing nodes can follow their rules even if miner support is low.

So which chain will you choose and which chain will you sell your duplicate coins on?

If a split happens, I will wait and see where users and miners shift and which chain they support.

[legiteum]

If a split happens, I will wait and see where users and miners shift and which chain they support.

Exactly what I have been saying. I think many would say the same thing (others would look to major industry players like Saylor and CoinBase and Trump).

Bitcoin isn't actually decentralized, folks  . It's actually an industry consortium run by perhaps 10-15 large entities...

[LFC_Bitcoin]

There’s no evidence of an imminent hard fork, BIP-110 is a soft fork and they have less than 2% hash power so it’s nothing we need to even think about yet.

It’s nothing like the situation we had in 2017.

[SensitiveEyes]

So which chain will you choose and which chain will you sell your duplicate coins on?

Isn't it obvious? A malicious fork that only has 2% support is not something to even think about. It may not even come to existence.

2% support is a joke. They must have more than 2% support to shift support away from bitcoin. If the fork comes to existence how can I extract the new coins from my wallet? Which name is the latest fork called. I will dump them if I can extract them. Which exchanges are recommended to dump the malicious coins?

[athanred]

If the fork comes to existence how can I extract the new coins from my wallet?

You can just use anything, which BIP-110 relay will block, or include already splitted coins into your transaction. For example:

Address: bc1qa9l42j75l46jzuu9pjcua5x0ndl3ecqsrt59sl

non-BIP-110 coins: https://mempool.space/tx/4b9b6cdfbd9dd6e14f593f014b6bfe4a823089d90a01ed212b82999c65e63919

Code:

createrawtransaction '[{"txid":"4b9b6cdfbd9dd6e14f593f014b6bfe4a823089d90a01ed212b82999c65e63919","vout":0}]' '[{"bc1q7vcl9f88rxryzr2cw9kdcja29kmh9t88ajjvzq":0.00364000}]' 0 true 2
02000000011939e6659c99822b21ed010ad98930824afe6b4b013f594fe1d69dbddf6c9b4b0000000000fdffffff01e08d050000000000160014f331f2a4e71986410d58716cdc4baa2db772ace700000000
signrawtransactionwithwallet "02000000011939e6659c99822b21ed010ad98930824afe6b4b013f594fe1d69dbddf6c9b4b0000000000fdffffff01e08d050000000000160014f331f2a4e71986410d58716cdc4baa2db772ace700000000" '[{"txid":"4b9b6cdfbd9dd6e14f593f014b6bfe4a823089d90a01ed212b82999c65e63919","vout":0,"scriptPubKey":"0014e97f554bd4fd752173850cb1ced0cf9b7f1ce010","amount":0.00364000}]' "SINGLE|ANYONECANPAY"
{
  "hex": "020000000001011939e6659c99822b21ed010ad98930824afe6b4b013f594fe1d69dbddf6c9b4b0000000000fdffffff01e08d050000000000160014f331f2a4e71986410d58716cdc4baa2db772ace7024730440220774391e4eba583893ad6d87f48417ab9ec4d137f262d5eaf2bd75626c43550cd02206b24f478c88b7016641d60ca4fad6626e7f55f488eb569bd8080d05e437e379a832102c551349ae6688aad6ac3001931c591002ae4765dbb04aeaf97d5ac2e3b9ed06900000000",
  "complete": true
}
decoderawtransaction 020000000001011939e6659c99822b21ed010ad98930824afe6b4b013f594fe1d69dbddf6c9b4b0000000000fdffffff01e08d050000000000160014f331f2a4e71986410d58716cdc4baa2db772ace7024730440220774391e4eba583893ad6d87f48417ab9ec4d137f262d5eaf2bd75626c43550cd02206b24f478c88b7016641d60ca4fad6626e7f55f488eb569bd8080d05e437e379a832102c551349ae6688aad6ac3001931c591002ae4765dbb04aeaf97d5ac2e3b9ed06900000000
{
  "txid": "edf444a13fef2bcf59314499f77d159ea88c1b3389eb551f70625cedb12db6ae",
  "hash": "bf6e4eb0cabae5e7682476aeb2a19430cd11e15810c2cff49f8ff9af193abc76",
  "version": 2,
  "size": 191,
  "vsize": 110,
  "weight": 437,
  "locktime": 0,
  "vin": [
    {
      "txid": "4b9b6cdfbd9dd6e14f593f014b6bfe4a823089d90a01ed212b82999c65e63919",
      "vout": 0,
      "scriptSig": {
        "asm": "",
        "hex": ""
      },
      "txinwitness": [
        "30440220774391e4eba583893ad6d87f48417ab9ec4d137f262d5eaf2bd75626c43550cd02206b24f478c88b7016641d60ca4fad6626e7f55f488eb569bd8080d05e437e379a83",
        "02c551349ae6688aad6ac3001931c591002ae4765dbb04aeaf97d5ac2e3b9ed069"
      ],
      "sequence": 4294967293
    }
  ],
  "vout": [
    {
      "value": 0.00364000,
      "n": 0,
      "scriptPubKey": {
        "asm": "0 f331f2a4e71986410d58716cdc4baa2db772ace7",
        "desc": "addr(bc1q7vcl9f88rxryzr2cw9kdcja29kmh9t88ajjvzq)#0kfqanev",
        "hex": "0014f331f2a4e71986410d58716cdc4baa2db772ace7",
        "address": "bc1q7vcl9f88rxryzr2cw9kdcja29kmh9t88ajjvzq",
        "type": "witness_v0_keyhash"
      }
    }
  ]
}

BIP-110 coins: https://mempool.kilombino.com/tx/f0693758e229ba82d3ece2e419714f60617b77c5148c8fda7c382cbf8931cf48

Code:

createrawtransaction '[{"txid":"f0693758e229ba82d3ece2e419714f60617b77c5148c8fda7c382cbf8931cf48","vout":0}]' '[{"bc1q7vcl9f88rxryzr2cw9kdcja29kmh9t88ajjvzq":0.00364000}]' 0 true 2
020000000148cf3189bf2c387cda8f8c14c5777b61604f7119e4e2ecd382ba29e2583769f00000000000fdffffff01e08d050000000000160014f331f2a4e71986410d58716cdc4baa2db772ace700000000
signrawtransactionwithwallet "020000000148cf3189bf2c387cda8f8c14c5777b61604f7119e4e2ecd382ba29e2583769f00000000000fdffffff01e08d050000000000160014f331f2a4e71986410d58716cdc4baa2db772ace700000000" '[{"txid":"f0693758e229ba82d3ece2e419714f60617b77c5148c8fda7c382cbf8931cf48","vout":0,"scriptPubKey":"0014e97f554bd4fd752173850cb1ced0cf9b7f1ce010","amount":0.00364000}]' "SINGLE|ANYONECANPAY"
{
  "hex": "0200000000010148cf3189bf2c387cda8f8c14c5777b61604f7119e4e2ecd382ba29e2583769f00000000000fdffffff01e08d050000000000160014f331f2a4e71986410d58716cdc4baa2db772ace70247304402202e0d1af4e3ce7b3fd14343a35e15ae3235323604971abfbf02aecfcbf400faaa0220787f833bf3a4f2e7df2398797069e45ba5d35914b63e7fcd54058c7d0909f567832102c551349ae6688aad6ac3001931c591002ae4765dbb04aeaf97d5ac2e3b9ed06900000000",
  "complete": true
}
decoderawtransaction 0200000000010148cf3189bf2c387cda8f8c14c5777b61604f7119e4e2ecd382ba29e2583769f00000000000fdffffff01e08d050000000000160014f331f2a4e71986410d58716cdc4baa2db772ace70247304402202e0d1af4e3ce7b3fd14343a35e15ae3235323604971abfbf02aecfcbf400faaa0220787f833bf3a4f2e7df2398797069e45ba5d35914b63e7fcd54058c7d0909f567832102c551349ae6688aad6ac3001931c591002ae4765dbb04aeaf97d5ac2e3b9ed06900000000
{
  "txid": "ba6b48cca6407a6e7b9a3dbe1499d700455c3c9accae52f1e4683871cf10abbd",
  "hash": "d1dfa4c27a81cb7ee2931b2521aea23201bd3011e82fbb0188848e409c3661be",
  "version": 2,
  "size": 191,
  "vsize": 110,
  "weight": 437,
  "locktime": 0,
  "vin": [
    {
      "txid": "f0693758e229ba82d3ece2e419714f60617b77c5148c8fda7c382cbf8931cf48",
      "vout": 0,
      "scriptSig": {
        "asm": "",
        "hex": ""
      },
      "txinwitness": [
        "304402202e0d1af4e3ce7b3fd14343a35e15ae3235323604971abfbf02aecfcbf400faaa0220787f833bf3a4f2e7df2398797069e45ba5d35914b63e7fcd54058c7d0909f56783",
        "02c551349ae6688aad6ac3001931c591002ae4765dbb04aeaf97d5ac2e3b9ed069"
      ],
      "sequence": 4294967293
    }
  ],
  "vout": [
    {
      "value": 0.00364000,
      "n": 0,
      "scriptPubKey": {
        "asm": "0 f331f2a4e71986410d58716cdc4baa2db772ace7",
        "desc": "addr(bc1q7vcl9f88rxryzr2cw9kdcja29kmh9t88ajjvzq)#0kfqanev",
        "hex": "0014f331f2a4e71986410d58716cdc4baa2db772ace7",
        "address": "bc1q7vcl9f88rxryzr2cw9kdcja29kmh9t88ajjvzq",
        "type": "witness_v0_keyhash"
      }
    }
  ]
}

Just make any transaction with version 2, locktime 0, and pick any inputs and outputs. I just prepared self-transfer with zero fees, so your output amounts will decide, what will be the fee of the whole transaction. Good luck with splitting them. Or use OP_RETURN, P2PK, or anything else, if you don't trust me.

Which exchanges are recommended to dump the malicious coins?

At the time of writing, we are not there yet. I splitted my coins in the second BIP-110 block. But you can trade in a peer to peer way, like it was in the old times.

For broadcasting it, you need just some block explorer with some API:

non-BIP-110:

Code:

curl -X POST -sSLd "020000000001011939e6659c99822b21ed010ad98930824afe6b4b013f594fe1d69dbddf6c9b4b0000000000fdffffff01e08d050000000000160014f331f2a4e71986410d58716cdc4baa2db772ace7024730440220774391e4eba583893ad6d87f48417ab9ec4d137f262d5eaf2bd75626c43550cd02206b24f478c88b7016641d60ca4fad6626e7f55f488eb569bd8080d05e437e379a832102c551349ae6688aad6ac3001931c591002ae4765dbb04aeaf97d5ac2e3b9ed06900000000" "https://mempool.space/api/tx"

BIP-110:

Code:

curl -X POST -sSLd "0200000000010148cf3189bf2c387cda8f8c14c5777b61604f7119e4e2ecd382ba29e2583769f00000000000fdffffff01e08d050000000000160014f331f2a4e71986410d58716cdc4baa2db772ace70247304402202e0d1af4e3ce7b3fd14343a35e15ae3235323604971abfbf02aecfcbf400faaa0220787f833bf3a4f2e7df2398797069e45ba5d35914b63e7fcd54058c7d0909f567832102c551349ae6688aad6ac3001931c591002ae4765dbb04aeaf97d5ac2e3b9ed06900000000" "https://mempool.guide/api/tx"

Also, signing can be done with Core or Knots client offline, even if you don't have a chain. I guess more user-friendly tools will come later, if there will be enough demand for that. Good luck, and have fun!

[dim_mak5]

I don't care what happens, as long bitcoin is decentralized as in no entity can freeze your bitcoin in your cold hardware wallet and the 21 million cap isn't removed. What if governments and blackrock and wall street tells regulated miners to censor btc transaction or risk losing their mining license though? Once that happens then bitcoin value becomes $0 correct?

BIP-110 people say it is the Nodes that represent the true decentralization of btc not the miners and they say nodes need to be spam/junk free resulting in less hard drive space in GB requires meaning cheaper to run a node because you don't need to spend money on a large hard drive meaning people in poverty countries can afford to run bitcoin nodes meaning more nodes meaning more decentralized otherwise it be rich people who can afford to run a node meaning less nodes more centralized correct?

But don't we have Ethereum & Solana for NFTs though? Why the sudden urge for wizard nfts on bitcoin. Is bitcoin trying to take over ethereum & solana in nfts? Bitcoin is trying to become everything on the base chain not just money? Wont this introduce more risk to the btc network?

Or...

Cant they be a separate layer2 for Nfts on bitcoin so it doesn't clog up the main base layer 1 or something

[NotATether]

Don't care, all I want to do is redeem my BIP-110 fork coins. Hopefully they have some value in them.

Anyone want to point me to some exchanges supporting both?