Upcoming Bitcoin Hard Fork, which chain will you stay on?

[dansus021]

There is no actual split or viable alternative chain to choose. What happened over the weekend with BIP-110 (the "Reduced Data Temporary Softfork") was not a balanced 2017-style Blocksize War like Bitcoin vs. Bitcoin Cash. It was a marginal minority node fork that immediately stalled out due to lack of miner and economic consensus.

the last hard fork didn't last well I mean bitcoin cash, satoshi vision, bitcoin gold and other they do work and have the price but can follow the original bitcoin. Im going to choose where the majority choose and for You don't need to choose a chain or split your funds. The main Bitcoin chain (BTC) remains intact with 99.85%+ consensus, mining blocks every 10 minutes as normal. BIP-110 served as a real-time demonstration that Bitcoin governance is governed by market consensus, node sovereignty, and economic incentives not unilateral soft forks.

[Itty Bitty]

Well if 110 is going to hard fork to a new hash function and separate completely from bitcoin, I'd like to buy a few extra coins (to the one's key holders are getting-or are we not getting any?) as well as Paul's sidechain/drivechain fork.
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I think they will be opposite of BCH, they will start slowly and pick up hash rate and developers and price in time.

I think bitcoin twitter is a bit distorted and has a suspiciously high percentage of jpgers and ordinalers and stampers amongst them, a higher percentage then the public at large.

I think in time these forks have a decent chance to bite bitcoin in the glutius maximus a bit even if bitcoin twitter scoffs at the notion, and I give these hard forks a pretty good chance to dig into bitcoins price. They are doing things many people want, i.e. creating a money culture ONLY from the 110-ers, and sidechains with additional fees paid by drivechains, which I think people will gravitate to in time.

The main question is how the public will react to having benevolent dictators as heads of these forks, so unbitcoin like, but what they will be offering is desired by not an insignificant amount of users. Can this dictatorship creepiness be overcome? I think few believe so now, so I'd like to get more coins now in case benevolent dictators will become a thing, or something that can be overcome. So bottom line let's get a market out there asap for these coins.

[athanred]

I'd like to buy a few extra coins

Oh, that's surprising, because so far, nobody wanted to buy any BIP-110 coins, even for a single non-BIP-110 satoshi. Do you want to get some of them? My BIP-110 coins already reached a single confirmation, so I can use them to split any coins properly, and move them independently on each chain. Of course, it will be up to you, to get them confirmed on BIP-110 chain properly.

or are we not getting any?

If you have pre-BIP-110 coins, then you also have post-BIP-110 coins, as long as you didn't move them yet.

as well as Paul's sidechain/drivechain fork

For these coins, you need to have non-BIP-110 coins, because he will fork from the heaviest chain.

they will start slowly and pick up hash rate and developers and price in time

For some reason, I doubt they are technically competent to make things tick, because previously, they rejected valid technical concerns, which led them to the stuck BIP-110 chain, because they believed, that miners will flip a bit, just because they want them to do so, and because of some magic fairy dust, they will suddenly support it.

creating a money culture ONLY

It was proven to be ineffective, people are ready to put Ordinals, NFTs, JPEGs, and a lot of protocols in a BIP-110 compatible ways. If anything, it will be just like a "hackme site", but with blockchain instead, where a lot of programmers will treat it as a challenge, to test, how censorship can be prevented, if some other party is trying to actively block your transactions, by deploying next BIPs.

sidechains with additional fees paid by drivechains, which I think people will gravitate to in time

They already ignored a suggestion, that sidechains should be launched with Merged Mining. They want to convince new people, to use Merged Mining for their sidechains, built on top of e-cash, but for some reason, they don't want to launch e-cash as a Merged Mining chain, where people could mine BTC and e-cash with the same mining power. It is like saying: "Hey, developers, use that great feature, but I am not going to touch it!".

Also, if they would want to launch sidechains, which could be directly connected with BTCs, and not use Merged Mining, then they would use things like Proof of Work inside Script. In this way, attacking their network would require attacking BTC at the same time, so it would be much harder to justify. Also, in this case, their chain would use real BTCs instead.

what they will be offering is desired by not an insignificant amount of users

If people would want spamless nodes, and sidechains, then they would use existing solutions, or work on improving them, without trying to fork to another chain. The fact, that they are forking, where there is no reason to do so, clearly shows their technical incompetence.

let's get a market out there asap for these coins

If you want to get BIP-110 coins "ASAP", then I can sign a transaction, which will move coins only on that chain, here and now. It is up to you, how do you want to get it confirmed on BIP-110 side. If you agree, you would be the first buyer, because literally nobody wants to buy these coins now.

[Itty Bitty]

Hey there athanred, thanks for the reply.

I'm no longer talking about the now defunct BP 110 chain split using the same Sha-256 hash function bitcoin does. I am talking about the yet to be announced FORK of the former BIP-110 to a new coin with a different (and for now unknown) hashing algorithm. But I am not interested in transacting with individuals at the moment, I want to see the new market price for this (fomerly) 110 coin, as I believe it will be an underlay to its true value. This hardly means I will be correct and profit. I am thinking more for insurance if it does take off more than expected.

In fact with all three coins (BTC, formerly 110, and drivechain), two headed by very technically respected individuals, this new bitcoin "environment" could be a more valuable one, and it could be if bitcoin alone is $65k, the three together could be worth 68 or 70k or more in aggregate, rising tide lifts all ships kind of thing, the new coins don't necessarily have to take value away from bitcoin.

But again, thanks for your offer, but maybe review what is actually happening here with forks and hash functions and what not.

[dim_mak5]

BIP110 guys say they might change the POW algo to BLAKE2b.

SC Siacoin uses BLAKE2b and a few others.

Let them fork I guess and we review their chain after a year and see if spam/junk/csam still end up on their chain and if does then BIP110 BTC is dead finished otherwise its Wall St Bitcoin versus Node Runners Plebs Bitcoin.

Bitcoin Plebs say they want bitcoin for humanity as decentralized money and dont care about number going up. 90% of bitcoiners just care about number going up so they want institutional money pouring into bitcoin and that means Wall st getting in. If Bitcoin BIP110 win then the institutional Wall St like Blackrock will pull out of bitcoin and delist their bitcoin ETFs.

Why the hell Wall St want to put money into something that is controlled by plebs ordinary people

[gmaxwell]

Siacoin doesn't use blake2b, it originally did, but it hardforked later to blake2b-sia.  It's different hardware.

Blake2b-sia wasn't even in the list of options for the farcical "fair" selection using testnet.
 

[joker_josue]

Let them fork I guess and we review their chain after a year and see if spam/junk/csam still end up on their chain and if does then BIP110 BTC is dead finished otherwise its Wall St Bitcoin versus Node Runners Plebs Bitcoin.

The point is that this network will be clean, because it will be a network that nobody uses. You're not going to prove anything, you're just continuing to create speculation.

It's true that something needs to be done to minimize the impact of spam on the network, but the way I wanted to do this BIP isn't the most appropriate.

[DaveF]

Siacoin doesn't use blake2b, it originally did, but it hardforked later to blake2b-sia.  It's different hardware.

Blake2b-sia wasn't even in the list of options for the farcical "fair" selection using testnet.
 

So they were buying all the old blake2b miners so they can control their chain?
Wonder how long till it gets attacked by people who are just so irritate with luke and have BTC to burn to buy or rest hash just to screw with him.

Now that they are going to fork off to an alt I really don't think it's worth discussing here, it can all be dumped into the altcoin sections.

Probably going to need a full time moderator just to move all the threads that they are going to be making to prove it's the real coin.

-Dave

[alastantiger]

My heart is with Satoshi, who I'm sure didn't imagine his wonderful gift to the world would be partially hijacked by those wanting to  forever encode non-financial data simultaneously on tens of thousands of nodes, mostly non-financial and not time sensitive, which is what bitcoin as money was designed for.

Anyone here should take the side of Satoshi as it is always going to be the is be right decision to make, I have read about many hard forks that have happened in the past and so far the main Bitcoin Blockchain has always been the one to succeed and that is not going to change now. We have to support the main chain and allow the other chain to die a natural death,  I remember Bitcoin cash that was birthed because Bitcoin had a hard fork some years back  but it's now trading way below the market value of Bitcoin and those who supported that chain are full of regret and that is going to be what will happen to the new hard fork coin that will be produced. This is the reason why it is better we support the main Bitcoin Blockchain as you will not win if you decide not to support it.

[dim_mak5]

The Bip110 hard fork this upcoming September is dead out of the box if it someone discovers that Junk/Spam/Csam has made its way on the BIP110 chain. However... if their chain is clean as a whistle no junk no spam even after 1 year September 2027 review then they may have a chance to go up against Wall st Bitcoin aka legacy BTC but for BIP110 chain to overtake and win over legacy BTC they have to make their new Hard Fork BIP110 Quantum Resistant ready straight away out of the box when the hard fork happens, only then BIP110 btc chain has a chance against Wall st legacy bitcoin.

Like with all religions that had a founder/prophet, Bitcoin is no different because if you take Christianity for example, you have chain splits in the religion, like protestant Christian, catholic Christian, orthodox Christian. Bitcoin is like a religion so it is expected there be different sects of Bitcoin in the future. But the sad thing is Bitcoin is based on Mathematics, Satoshi was a mathematician and mathematics is the only undisputed universal subject that we all agree on. We never see 2 mathematicians debating whether 2+2=4. but in every other subject, science, history and such there debates and opposing views. For example scientists say universe caused by big bang and there's scientists say No that's not true.

Every subject has chain splits apart from mathematics, is bitcoin based on maths (pure value) or code (representing values)? I say this because representation can be viewed different by people who will have different views.

Codes can be manipulated, hacked but true value of mathematics cannot be.

[OgNasty]

The longest chain is Bitcoin.

I see no issue with supporting an alternative chain that gives you free coins though.  Bitcoin and I have an open relationship.  It doesn't take away from our love.

[athanred]

if it someone discovers that Junk/Spam/Csam has made its way on the BIP110 chain

Too late, data can be pushed even inside private keys, if it will be necessary: https://www.bitmex.com/blog/the-unstoppable-jpg-in-private-keys

if their chain is clean as a whistle

It already is, because it can produce single blocks per day. No blocks means no spam, actually unlocking the chain will make it more spammy, than it currently is.

they have to make their new Hard Fork BIP110 Quantum Resistant ready straight away out of the box when the hard fork happens

It would be funny to see them, trying to deploy huge, quantum-resistant signatures on a chain, where large data pushes are blocked. Where "large" means "more than 34 bytes" in some contexts.

you have chain splits in the religion

Yes, and Luke is also in a minority here. Well, at least it is consistent. Actually, I thought he would insist on making all fixes on top of BIP-110 to be soft-forks, so I am quite surprised, that he considers any hard-forks at all.

But the sad thing is Bitcoin is based on Mathematics

It is not a sad thing. It is one of the reasons, why you can build a lot of interesting things on top of it. For example: you can express the value of "pi" as a private key. And it can be left untouched for years, if people wouldn't have enough skills to know, how exactly you computed it.

is bitcoin based on maths (pure value) or code (representing values)?

It is based on code, and some of that code uses some math, and some cryptography, to make things tick.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Don't care, all I want to do is redeem my BIP-110 fork coins. Hopefully they have some value in them.

Someone make a tutorial for it. Is it going to $1M USD? Let me know LOL

[athanred]

Someone make a tutorial for it.

I already did, in this very topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5590674.msg67025339#msg67025339

If you include any already splitted coin into your transaction, then your coins will also split. If you don't understand it, or don't trust me, then you can wait more time, when more user-friendly tools will be written, if enough people will need them, and someone will make it.

Is it going to $1M USD?

Any coin is worth as much, as both sides will agree on. For example: moving coins from bc1qss67lljllhph4wnmzn7f8qpc3wh6q48hlpfpznt9sz2lntw963nssn6kzm is worth more BTCs, than the whole chain produced since 2009, because it would prove, that both secp256k1 and SHA-256 are unsafe.

[dim_mak5]

Which CEX exchanges will support the new BIP110 BTC coins? If no CEX is listing this coin then that's good news for BIP110 as if CEX do not list it then that means hodlers cannot dump it on CEX to crash its price right?

Another curious question is BIP110 bitcoiners say the miners have been captured compromised by Wall st meaning mining is centralized not decentralized? The question is even if mining pools are decentralized then what CEX's that are 100% pure centralized meaning they can influence a coin by delisting it from their exchanges.

What if the governments tell all CEX's to delist legacy bitcoin? That means nobody can/buy sell it right meaning btc will just become a niche small market like pokemon cards not global money 

[pooya87]

Which CEX exchanges will support the new BIP110 BTC coins? If no CEX is listing this coin then that's good news for BIP110 as if CEX do not list it then that means hodlers cannot dump it on CEX to crash its price right?

If it is not listed on any exchanges then it also has no value, that also means there is no incentive for anyone to bother mining this altcoin.
And logically exchanges are not interested in listing a dead chain (2-4 blocks in 7-8 days => 1000+ blocks behind).

Another curious question is BIP110 bitcoiners say the miners have been captured compromised by Wall st meaning mining is centralized not decentralized?

From a decentralization perspective the mining situation with distribution of hashrate and the mining pools may not be perfect but it is not even close to being centralized. Saying otherwise is FUD.

What if the governments tell all CEX's to delist legacy bitcoin? That means nobody can/buy sell it right meaning btc will just become a niche small market like pokemon cards not global money 

Not exactly.
First of all there is no "global government" that can order all CEXes to do something. Any government that issues such "orders" is doing it in its own jurisdiction not globally. That means CEX can move its HQ, or its competitor already located in another jurisdiction will grow.
There is also other ways of trading bitcoin that don't need CEX, it doesn't have to be a pokemon card silly market to be traded!

[MoparMiningLLC]

is there replay protection? as far as i understand if you spend on the one chain and then the txn is broadcast on the other you can then lose your Bitcoins

[athanred]

is there replay protection?

Only if you start from a transaction, which is invalid from BIP-110 perspective. Then, it can be confirmed on non-BIP-110 chain, and blocked on relay level on BIP-110 side. And then, you can split your coins properly.

Or, you can include any already splitted coins, and then it will split everything properly. This is also why I signed my coins with proper sighashes, so they can be used by others to split coins, if anyone needs that.

[ABCbits]

they have to make their new Hard Fork BIP110 Quantum Resistant ready straight away out of the box when the hard fork happens

It would be funny to see them, trying to deploy huge, quantum-resistant signatures on a chain, where large data pushes are blocked. Where "large" means "more than 34 bytes" in some contexts.

The "OP_PUSHDATA* payloads ... exceeding 256 bytes" also limit the option, since some QC resistant cryptography have signature size above it.

What if the governments tell all CEX's to delist legacy bitcoin? That means nobody can/buy sell it right meaning btc will just become a niche small market like pokemon cards not global money 

CEX isn't the only way to buy/sell Bitcoin. There are other option such as DEX, P2P marketplace, OTC or atomic swap. Small or private CEX that doesn't mention it's country origin also unlikely follow government statement or law.

[MoparMiningLLC]

well according to LukeDashJr - his BIP110 is the "real" Bitcoin not "corecoin" or "spamcoin" as he calls the real Bitcoin.

100% bonafide nut job