Bitcoin Forum
August 30, 2026, 11:55:35 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 31.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 [5]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: BIP-110 Split  (Read 1383 times)
Wind_FURY
Legendary
*
Offline

Activity: 3752
Merit: 2221



View Profile
Today at 02:02:37 PM
Merited by stwenhao (1)
 #81

Between their release candidate 2 and release candidate 3 they cut the block size limit to 1/5th (so 800kwu maximum, typical block sizes of around 400kbytes), without any meaningful disclosure until after their HF chain was under way as far as I can tell.  Doesn't appear that there is any published source control history for these changes either.

Luke apparently believed no disclosure or discussion was necessary because a blocksize max for block creation of 300kb has been the default in knots for a long time.  Or maybe no human even knew that change was made: the whole project is vibe coded.  Grin

...and then there is the fact that they announced their POW fork chain would begin September 1st, but began it two days early with hardly any notice and a completely dysfunctional network that already reorged out the first mined blocks because the only people who can participate are ones who join the discord and ask for compatible peers to addnode, or they'll be islanded because their fork doesn't implement any peer discovery of compatible peers.


He always was saying in the past that Bitcoin's blocks needed to be smaller to 300kb, no? Now he truly got to make that happen.

Plus one of my Bitcoin friends told me that he "stepped down" as CEO of Ocean Mining, and that he's not affiliated with the company anymore. Was he thrown out?

██████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
██████████████████████
.SHUFFLE.COM..███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
█████████████████████
████████████████████
██████████████████████
████████████████████
██████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
.
...Next Generation Crypto Casino...
internetional
Legendary
*
Offline

Activity: 2282
Merit: 3499



View Profile
Today at 02:15:45 PM
Merited by stwenhao (1)
 #82

What happened to the forked chain? Where did all these new blocks come from? They could barely mine the first ten blocks for almost a month, and now suddenly it's pumping out up to two blocks a minute at times. Where did they get that much computing power?



Or did they decide to go for a full-on hard fork and switch to a different mining algorithm?

 
 b1exch.to 
  ETH      DAI   
  BTC      LTC   
  USDT     XMR    
.███████████▄▀▄▀
█████████▄█▄▀
███████████
███████▄█▀
█▀█
▄▄▀░░██▄▄
▄▀██▄▀█████▄
██▄▀░▄██████
███████░█████
█░████░█████████
█░█░█░████░█████
█░█░█░██░█████
▀▀▀▄█▄████▀▀▀
athanred
Member
**
Offline

Activity: 115
Merit: 179


View Profile
Today at 02:47:39 PM
Last edit: Today at 03:16:17 PM by athanred
 #83

Quote
What happened to the forked chain?
They just hard-forked silently, to have everything ready for September, and avoid another failure, if anything would go wrong.

Also, your post is yet another proof, that most users care only about block explorers, and there are not that many node runners, or even SPV clients, because otherwise you would still see the same SHA-256 chain, as all unupgraded clients can see.

Quote
He always was saying in the past that Bitcoin's blocks needed to be smaller to 300kb, no?
If we would have proper second layers, transaction batching, and cut-through automatically enforced on protocol level, then maybe even 100 kB would be more than enough. But instead, we are still in this early stage, where each user needs several UTXOs on the first layer, so instead Bitcoin is scaling through centralized exchanges, and other custodians, just because it doesn't scale on the protocol level to billions of users.

Imagine billions of users using a chain with 4 MB per block, in the way it is used today, where each user has one or more UTXOs. It would instantly explode to gigabytes of waiting transactions. However, note that if you have the same coin, passed millions of times, then you only need to know, where it starts, and where it ends, and all in-between traffic can be kept only by interested parties; the network can only validate it, and then prune it, by keeping only the minimal information, like "who owned it previously, and who owns it now".

Also, if you have billions of users, then you no longer have one user per UTXO. You have a huge multisig on both sides instead. Then, there is one 1000-of-1000 multisig on one side, and another huge multisig on another side, and the whole transaction can take less than a kilobyte, because it has the same form, as a single user, sending coins to a single recipient. Then, a single Schnorr signature can handle thousands of users. And now you have a choice: to help making it possible in a decentralized way, or to wait for exchanges, and other third parties, to handle exactly the same thing, but in a custodial way.

Note that when Satoshi wrote about scaling in the whitepaper, he only counted 80 byte block headers. Everything else he wanted to prune in that way or another, to let the network scale.

Quote
Was he thrown out?
Is it surprising? He wrote a code, that forked from the original chain for no reason, while everyone told him months in advance, how the minority chain would behave. And later, more and more people started developing solutions, which would achieve the same or even better spam resistance, without any forks at all: https://sambitcoin.github.io/BitcoinMonetaryNode/

And now, not only he competes with altcoins, using the same mining algorithm, which he hard-forked into, but he also created an unnecessary competition, by not using SHA-256, which is why all of that hashrate he convinced to signal for BIP-110, will be now redirected into mining BTC, or Bitcoin Purity, or other SHA-256 forks.

But well, if you believe, that miners will signal, just because you wish them to, then you have to face the consequences later, if they don't.
NotATether
Legendary
*
Offline

Activity: 2436
Merit: 10251


┻┻ ︵㇏(°□°㇏)


View Profile WWW
Today at 02:49:57 PM
 #84

Quote
What happened to the forked chain?
They just hard-forked silently, to have everything ready for September, and avoid another failure, if anything would go wrong.

Also, your post is yet another proof, that most users care only about block explorers, and there are not that many node runners, or even SPV clients, because otherwise you would still see the same SHA-256 chain, as all unupgraded clients can see.

And also, while I don't expect forked BTC to be valuable by any means, the coins likely cannot even be claimed safely on the BIP110 chain, because the exact same transaction can be replayed for your BTC itself.

It's another nail in the coffin for BIP110.

 
 b1exch.to 
  ETH      DAI   
  BTC      LTC   
  USDT     XMR    
.███████████▄▀▄▀
█████████▄█▄▀
███████████
███████▄█▀
█▀█
▄▄▀░░██▄▄
▄▀██▄▀█████▄
██▄▀░▄██████
███████░█████
█░████░█████████
█░█░█░████░█████
█░█░█░██░█████
▀▀▀▄█▄████▀▀▀
athanred
Member
**
Offline

Activity: 115
Merit: 179


View Profile
Today at 03:00:18 PM
Merited by internetional (2)
 #85

Quote
the coins likely cannot even be claimed safely on the BIP110 chain
They can be, if you know, what is blocked by BIP-110, and what is not. Just make a self-transfer, and then you can split your coins, for example by using P2PK, or 84 bytes in OP_RETURN, or using anything else they blocked in their BIP.

Also, I don't know how many times I have to link to my splitted coins, to show people, that it is possible: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5590674.msg67025339#msg67025339

If you think I did it incorrectly, then go on, and unsplit my coins, by replaying my transactions.
DaveF
Legendary
*
Offline

Activity: 4312
Merit: 7486


✅ NO KYC


View Profile WWW
Today at 03:18:21 PM
Merited by stwenhao (1)
 #86

.....
Plus one of my Bitcoin friends told me that he "stepped down" as CEO of Ocean Mining, and that he's not affiliated with the company anymore. Was he thrown out?


https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/joint-statement-of-ocean-and-luke-dashjr-302864347.html?tc=eml_cleartime


After swearing I was going to drop paying attention to all this 110 crap for a few days I pop in and see all of what happened.
Ah well, back outside to enjoy the weather.

-Dave

 
 b1exch.to 
  ETH      DAI   
  BTC      LTC   
  USDT     XMR    
.███████████▄▀▄▀
█████████▄█▄▀
███████████
███████▄█▀
█▀█
▄▄▀░░██▄▄
▄▀██▄▀█████▄
██▄▀░▄██████
███████░█████
█░████░█████████
█░█░█░████░█████
█░█░█░██░█████
▀▀▀▄█▄████▀▀▀
stompix
Legendary
*
Offline

Activity: 3724
Merit: 7317



View Profile WWW
Today at 08:14:21 PM
 #87

...and then there is the fact that they announced their POW fork chain would begin September 1st, but began it two days early with hardly any notice and a completely dysfunctional network that already reorged out the first mined blocks because the only people who can participate are ones who join the discord and ask for compatible peers to addnode, or they'll be islanded because their fork doesn't implement any peer discovery of compatible peers.

Wait, wait, wait...I missed all the drama and the launch and the fireworks?
Now only I'm demoralized about missing all this, but I'm also annoyed by this since it does mean that Luke&Co took advantage of this to mine early on their chain with no competition, which goes against my previous assumption that he just went crazy and he was not doing it for financial reasons. But then again...why did he do it, cause mimicking Tywin Lannister here, 1,10 or 1000, the answer on how much they are worth is the same.

Anyhow, the change adjustment happened at block 961640, 14 hours later we're at 961880, that gives him about 17 blocks per hour, so 3 times the average, if a lot of "plebs" missed this it will just go up, so a new adjustment will happen in just 3-4 days.
Maybe he will pocket himself 500 blocks of rewards, 1500 lukecoins....two pizzas?

Can anyone translate the difficulty they are mining at in asic power spent? I think I'm using the wrong equivalent in hahsrate as my assumption doesn't look credible at all....






▄▄████████████████████▄▄
▄███████▀▀██████▀▀███████▄
████████████████████████
████████▄▄██████▄▄██████

████████████████████████
██▄▄█████████████▄▄██████
██▀▀██████████████████▄▄██
██████▀▀██████████████▀▀██
██████████████████████████
██████▀▀██████▀▀████████
████████████████████████
▀███████▄▄██████▄▄███████▀
▀▀████████████████████▀▀
 
 DΞX.fo 
▄▄██████
█████████
██████████
█████████
██████████
█████████
▀▀██████

▄███████
▄██████████
████████████
█████████████
█████████████
|
▄▄█
▄████▀
▄███▀
▄██▀▄██
█████▀▀
███████
████████
▀██▄████
▄████▄▄
▄█████▀███
▄█████▀████
█████▀███████
▀██▀█████████
|  BTC     XMR  
  DAI     LTC  
   Fees  0.8%    
Kshot
Newbie
*
Offline

Activity: 1
Merit: 0


View Profile
Today at 08:18:15 PM
 #88

Why not introduce a fork going to a true CPU or GPU algo? Blake2b already has Asic miners. That would be a free, everyone in the world can contribute especially with CPUs Blockchain. Maybe  Autolykos (GPU) or RandomX (CPU)
gmaxwell
Moderator
Legendary
*
expert
Offline

Activity: 4844
Merit: 11485



View Profile WWW
Today at 11:21:39 PM
 #89

Why not introduce a fork going to a true CPU or GPU algo? Blake2b already has Asic miners. That would be a free, everyone in the world can contribute especially with CPUs Blockchain. Maybe  Autolykos (GPU) or RandomX (CPU)
Because Luke decided that ASIC resistance is impossible.  (... you can imagine him making this edict while sitting atop a couple blake2b miners he got for free in exchange for working on their firmware... Tongue )

Of all his random beliefs and edicts it's not one of his least well founded...  An AMD cpu is also an "asic miner" -- but you can't compete with the couple big makers without huge funding and some solution to a helluva patent thicket.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 [5]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!