BIP-110 Split

[philipma1957]

Do they also change maximum block size and block time?

They changed the block size from 4 MB to 800 kB. Which means, that if blocks had around 1.5 MB in practice, filled with regular transactions, then they will have around 300 kB now.

But in theory, it could be possible to push 800 kB of data, in a BIP-110 compatible way. Which gives yet another way to split the coins: if you make for example 1 MB non-standard transaction on BTC, then it won't be replayed on their BIP-110 chain.

That website shows block mined less than 10 minutes

I guess they picked some starting difficulty, and it was not yet adjusted. Time will tell, how fast their chain will move in the long-term. Anyway: by having lower difficulty than the real one, early adopters can mine more coins, than they should. Maybe it is a way to compensate for 8 blocks, where they burned 25 BTC worth of mining power, or more, to make them?

It's so confusing when latest Bitcoin Knots binary/version released 3 weeks ago.

I don't know, why people expect any honest launch in the altcoin world. Today, even testnets have a "de-facto premine", by being included into Bitcoin Core, when the chain is already alive, and have thousands of blocks. BTC in 2009 was released in a completely different conditions, where there were no altcoins, and it was possible to launch it honestly. For almost the whole 2009, everything was mineable on a CPU, the world back then was completely different. Today, I wouldn't expect any honestly launched altcoin, when many creators care mainly about making something, and just extracting BTCs or dollars out of their creation.

Also, if the whole coin is based on trusting only the block explorer, and people are okay with that, then what would you expect? That website can tell you tomorrow, that you have 22 million coins, because why not. They hard-forked, so they can do anything, and run any rules they want. Who knows if they still have halvings or not? If you don't have the same client, as they are using, then you won't be able to verify it.

dude the first 10000 btc blocks were basically a premine.  and they are worth

500,000 x 78,000=3.9×10¹⁰  usd as I type

or 39,000,000,000

[pooya87]

dude the first 10000 btc blocks were basically a premine.

Premine is a process where NOBODY except the centralized entity behind the coin is capable of mining a certain number of blocks. That has never been the case with Bitcoin. From block #1 ANYBODY could have mined ANY block they wished to. Just because others didn't bother to, doesn't mean it was a premine.
People even had 6 days to prepare to mine block #1 since block #0 was mined on ‎2009-01-03 and #1 on ‎2009-01-09.

The only thing that comes close to being a premine in bitcoin is block #0 aka the Genesis Block since nobody else could have mined it; but since its reward is not spendable, we can't even call that a premine!

[athanred]

dude the first 10000 btc blocks were basically a premine

Look at block timestamps. If the initial difficulty would be too low, then it would raise instantly. Instead, for almost the whole 2009, it was set to the minimal value, and only started to slowly raise later. If you think the first miners were greedy, then why the time between blocks were closer to 15 minutes, and not 10, as designed?

In today's altcoins, it is very hard to see the difficulty on the minimum level, being there for almost a year. Instead, creators pick some low value, and miners are instantly pushing it upwards, because it is profitable to mine first coins instantly, and sell them later, when the first exchange will list it.

That world in 2009 was completely different. Miners at that time were mining everything only on CPUs, and some of them were worried, that their hardware can be broken, because the concept of "mining" was unknown yet, and they were using old PCs with Windows XP, or ran their clients on some Linux through Wine, because there was no Linux version yet.

After a few days, bitcoin was running pretty stably, so I left it running. Those were the days when difficulty was 1, and you could find blocks with a CPU, not even a GPU. I mined several blocks over the next days. But I turned it off because it made my computer run hot, and the fan noise bothered me. In retrospect, I wish I had kept it up longer, but on the other hand I was extraordinarily lucky to be there at the beginning. It's one of those glass half full half empty things.

See? Which altcoiners are afraid of mining today?

A long time after I obtained my first Bitcoin.  Like a lot of early participants my first Bitcoin was mined.   When I first started the software there was only a windows version, so I ran it in wine and pretty much instantly forgot about it.  Like RPOW there were no users and so it wasn't that exciting-- though I became aware of it pretty early, I'd missed the white paper until the end of 2010 and so I had kind of assumed it was a less secure distributed version of RPOW-- an exciting novelty, but not likely to be world changing.

See? People were running it under Wine, probably even without much optimizations for mining.

[bitbollo]

Only a few skilled users have get in touch with bitcoin at early time. it was a kind of gentleman agreement to use only cpu for mining. this is also related to the first btc transaction - yes the pizza

Nowadays we are giving as completely reasonable to be greedy but there was a great sense of risk to spend time in bitcoin mining and having all set properly. If you consider that this was considered by some folks as a kind of side project...

It seems there are the first valuations for this fork. 1% from the main net but there is still few liquidity (and only one exchange)

[tromp]

Instead, creators pick some low value, and miners are instantly pushing it upwards, because it is profitable to mine first coins instantly, and sell them later, when the first exchange will list it.

Not all creators. Grin picked an insanely high value, so that block #1 took 96 block intervals to mine. As difficulty also adjusted after every block, the difficulty dropped steadily, but the next 10 blocks still averaged 5 block intervals each.

Are there any other examples of a PoW coin launching with a very high difficulty value, leaving the creators unable to grab any blocks for themselves?

[athanred]

Debating if it's worth splitting my coins to sell or not.

Well, I finally sold my BIP-110 coins. But I can tell it was probably not worth the effort, because this exchange has 50k satoshis withdrawal limit for BTCs. And if you have less BIP-110 coins to dump, then you would need to put more BTCs in, to see 1k sats deducted by the exchange, and get your coins back.

Example amounts, describing what happened:

Sold: 0.20 BIP-110 coins for 0.00030000 BTC
Deposited: 0.00030000 BTC
Withdrawn: 0.00059000 BTC (0.00001000 BTC withdrawal fee)

Was it worth it? Probably not, if you consider, that you need to cross 0.00050000 BTC limit, just to get anything. If you have less than that, then it makes no sense, unless you are confident, that your trading skills will allow you to make that much somehow.

[gmaxwell]

Are there any other examples of a PoW coin launching with a very high difficulty value, leaving the creators unable to grab any blocks for themselves?

Presumably not an example of your question, but Bitcoin struggled to meet difficulty 1 the first year and under-produced.

Doing nothing special worked for bitcoin because it was so new-- but in today's world that isn't sufficient or acceptable, something ought to be done to stabilize the initialization.

I think it would be better if things had an initial reward of  ~0. then phased in the reward based on some metric of hashrate stability, e.g. don't increase the reward while hashrate is increasing.  That would have been especially workable for BJr since there was an existing coin supply, they wouldn't need subsidy to have coins to spend.

Given the launch of a fork is a one time event with special stability considerations, I think it would be totally reasonable to have some kind of hack to prevent a circus.

In any case the ludicrous situation with 119 blocks being mined an hour instead of 6 and the resulting instamine was easily predictable, predicted, and could have been avoided. -- same thing happened with BCH.

It seems there are the first valuations for this fork. 1% from the main net but there is still few liquidity (and only one exchange)

Doesn't really seem to be a functional market-- with a spread many times the best bid--, and it looks like of the very limited actual trade was more like 0.1% than 1%.  They also banned the exchange from their discord and are now being delisted, you can't deposit anymore.

If any long time forum regulars need help splitting coins for this thing, feel free to reach out to me 1:1, I can supply already split dust on the BJr side.

[satscraper]

Debating if it's worth splitting my coins to sell or not.

Well, I finally sold my BIP-110 coins. But I can tell it was probably not worth the effort, because this exchange has 50k satoshis withdrawal limit for BTCs. And if you have less BIP-110 coins to dump, then you would need to put more BTCs in, to see 1k sats deducted by the exchange, and get your coins back.

Example amounts, describing what happened:

Sold: 0.20 BIP-110 coins for 0.00030000 BTC
Deposited: 0.00030000 BTC
Withdrawn: 0.00059000 BTC (0.00001000 BTC withdrawal fee)

Was it worth it? Probably not, if you consider, that you need to cross 0.00050000 BTC limit, just to get anything. If you have less than that, then it makes no sense, unless you are confident, that your trading skills will allow you to make that much somehow.

I am new to this shit. As I understand it, one needs the wallet especially focused on BIP-110 coins. What wallet did you use?

Besides, to populate your addresses with BIP-110 coins, you or someone else needs to send them  standard BTC transaction, which should be mined on the main and split blockchains. Is this correct?

[athanred]

What wallet did you use?

Bitcoin Core. To do transactions on all forks.

one needs the wallet especially focused on BIP-110 coins

No, you just need to use anything, that BIP-110 blocks. For example P2PK, 84 bytes of OP_RETURN, or anything else, that they blocked in that way, or another. Or, you can even include any already splitted coins, for example by adding these inputs.

you or someone else needs to send them  standard BTC transaction, which should be mined on the main and split blockchains. Is this correct?

1. Send some BTCs to yourself in a way, that is blocked by BIP-110, and get enough confirmations.
2. Send some BIP-110 coins in any way you want, because it would be invalid on BTC.

Splitting between BTC and BIP-110 is easy. It is harder to do it between BIP-110 and Bitcoin Purity. And even if you want to get eCash, then you can sign it from Bitcoin Core directly, so you don't need any other wallet. It can sign any UTXO you want, in any way you want. And you can use block explorers, to push your transactions to altcoins, you don't have to run their nodes, if you care only about getting BTCs out of it.

[marrcelo]

Is there currently any reliable wallet that can see and spend Blake2b chain coins?

BlueWallet and normal Bitcoin Core don't show them.

[athanred]

Is there currently any reliable wallet that can see and spend Blake2b chain coins?

You don't need any other wallet than Bitcoin Core, to make transactions on all forks. It is all about making them compatible in one network, and incompatible in another, if you want to split your coins.

BlueWallet and normal Bitcoin Core don't show them.

Why should they show any coins they consider to be altcoins? All old nodes and wallets will follow the BTC rules, with unchanged consensus. Which is probably good enough, if you consider, how many BIP-110 coins you need to have, to sell them successfully.

[satscraper]

Is there currently any reliable wallet that can see and spend Blake2b chain coins?

This is Shrike, which is unofficial fork of Sparrow.

I didn't test this wallet. I can't see any point in wasting time on something that currently has zero value ^{current price ~ $0.000002939}.

Tell them hit stride and then it just depends.

[marrcelo]

I didn't test this wallet. I can't see any point in wasting time on something that currently has zero value ^{current price ~ $0.000002939}.

Tell them hit stride and then it just depends.

Shrike can be a good option.
As the current price is practically zero, i dont have hurry; im just trying to understand the options.