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Author Topic: BIP-110 Split  (Read 2755 times)
gmaxwell
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September 10, 2026, 09:02:08 PM
Merited by stwenhao (1)
 #141

seems he wants to cut out economically motivated participants.  If successful his chain will consist only of cultists and byzantine attackers.  Right now it's expensive to attack because of the huge mass of miners happy to just make money and not cause any trouble, and those are exactly the people he wants to eliminate-- pretty obviously because they're harshing his instamine.  As a 'bonus'-- making the system vulnerable will help keep him relevant and important, since what purpose is there for him if the network is secured by decentralized self interest and economics?  A secure system has no need for constant "salvation" by a petty dictator with a pushing people around fetish.

In the upcoming battle between the cultists and the byzantines...

I do not know who will win.

I've got a pretty good guess at who will have more fun.
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September 11, 2026, 04:17:11 AM
Merited by stwenhao (1)
 #142

This is starting to look like one of those cartoons where the character tries to fix something but ruins it, then tries to clean up the mess but creates and even bigger mess. In fact whenever I read the mess Lukecoin is making these days I keep hearing the soundtrack of this very old Czechoslovakian cartoon from the 70's called Pat & Mat:

https://audio.com/ivan-glavina/audio/pat-a-mat-soundtrack-a-je-to-1979-1985
Grin

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September 11, 2026, 07:20:47 AM
Merited by stwenhao (1)
 #143

However, will miners agree to earn less, than they currently can get, and activate this soft-fork?

They will just push it and ignore a fork, simple as that, don't ask for logic.
Either way guida almost went full nuts and proposed 26280 blocks so 6 months freeze now down to 45 days
https://github.com/bitcoinknots/bitcoin/pull/403

Probably why the dump yesterday night

If he would cut it completely, then the promise of 21 million coins would be broken, because it would be less than that, depending on how many he would decide to burn. But again: burning coins is also doable by a soft-fork. And again, miners will have an incentive to not activate it, because they will get less rewards. No matter if coins will be burned or locked, miners would have an incentive to do a workaround over such rules, and claim these coins as fees instead.

They don't care, they will "fire" those miners again!
The only thing that matters now is for Convoy to make some cash but it seems like they miscalculated everything!
I always thought that it was the paranoia and the bitterness driving Luke, but I was also wrong, it was about the money.

seems he wants to cut out economically motivated participants.  If successful his chain will consist only of cultists and byzantine attackers.  Right now it's expensive to attack because of the huge mass of miners happy to just make money and not cause any trouble, and those are exactly the people he wants to eliminate-- pretty obviously because they're harshing his instamine.

Miners keep mining because it's profitable; if the coin goes down as it has so from $1800 to $150 now and to $15 there will be less incentive to mine so they will leave and let Luke mine his own coins himself, too bad that by that time it won't be profitable for him either.

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September 11, 2026, 08:01:08 AM
 #144

However, will miners agree to earn less, than they currently can get, and activate this soft-fork?

They will just push it and ignore a fork, simple as that, don't ask for logic.

As reminder, it happened recently when their Blake2b hard-fork activated earlier than initial claim. Newer Bitcoin Knots version that support hard-fork also only released few days after the hard-fork, so there wasnt actual consensus/agreement.

He has lost the plot completely, at this point, I don't think there is a single person on this planet he doesn't see as an enemy!
'I lost my Bitcoin so Bitcoin may now as well die' is the way he thinks.  He is a Bitcoin nihilist.  Is there any term for that?  If not then there should be one.  Bithilist?

I would say "I lost my Bitcoin, so nobody should continue benefit from Bitcoin". His behavior is somewhat similar with scorched earth strategy.

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September 11, 2026, 10:30:39 AM
Merited by pooya87 (4), athanred (1)
 #145

This is starting to look like one of those cartoons where the character tries to fix something but ruins it, then tries to clean up the mess but creates and even bigger mess. In fact whenever I read the mess Lukecoin is making these days I keep hearing the soundtrack of this very old Czechoslovakian cartoon from the 70's called Pat & Mat:

https://audio.com/ivan-glavina/audio/pat-a-mat-soundtrack-a-je-to-1979-1985
Grin
IMO the more helpful way to think about all of this is that this is what happens when you rush a HF and release an untested codebase, fix one bug, release two others. It's what happens when you skip the basics: replay protection, coordinate with exchanges, etc. That way when the inevitable happens, you're not scrambling to fix mistakes that should never have made it into production.
Nothing about what's going on with Bitcoin/BIP110 is unusual, it's the Bitcoin/BIP110 Saga in a sense but in terms of technical difficulties its really just an example not of "this project is uniquely cursed," but of what skipping the boring parts of a fork always looks like.
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September 11, 2026, 10:54:54 AM
 #146

Quote
replay protection, coordinate with exchanges, etc.
They wouldn't need it, if they wouldn't fork. Rejecting the spam is possible without any forks. They just decided to implement it differently, so it is their choice. As well as ignoring miner's signalling, which was quite low for months in advance, so everyone could see, how fast will be the minority chain.

If the theory about miners switching "at the last moment" would be correct, then signalling months in advance would be pointless. And then, everything could be simplified into "let's fork at this block number" instead.
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September 11, 2026, 11:13:38 AM
Merited by stwenhao (1)
 #147

I would say "I lost my Bitcoin, so nobody should continue benefit from Bitcoin". His behavior is somewhat similar with scorched earth strategy.

But, now it looks like he managed to get a bunch of it back from people buying the 110 chain.
Even now from what I can see some old school people sitting on a few hundred BTC from back in the day could split their coins and drop the value of 110 to ~ $100


I've got a pretty good guess at who will have more fun.


Us watching the show?

This is starting to look like one of those cartoons where the character tries to fix something but ruins it, then tries to clean up the mess but creates and even bigger mess. In fact whenever I read the mess Lukecoin is making these days I keep hearing the soundtrack of this very old Czechoslovakian cartoon from the 70's called Pat & Mat:

https://audio.com/ivan-glavina/audio/pat-a-mat-soundtrack-a-je-to-1979-1985
Grin

More Benny Hill
https://youtu.be/nKXngU_kRjw?t=34


Or since miners are evil they can just switch to PoS and only approved stakers can stake so he can have complete control.
Yeah that's it.

-Dave

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Satofan44
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September 11, 2026, 11:59:27 AM
 #148

In the upcoming battle between the cultists and the byzantines...
Their side is completely out of control. It is sad that many people have actually fallen for his idiocy, including "notable" members on this forum.

Quote
replay protection, coordinate with exchanges, etc.
They wouldn't need it, if they wouldn't fork. Rejecting the spam is possible without any forks. They just decided to implement it differently, so it is their choice. As well as ignoring miner's signalling, which was quite low for months in advance, so everyone could see, how fast will be the minority chain.

If the theory about miners switching "at the last moment" would be correct, then signalling months in advance would be pointless. And then, everything could be simplified into "let's fork at this block number" instead.
Incompetency leads to wrong choices, luke-jr and his CSAM obsessed idiots were considered much more reputable and competent than they deserved. It is a side affect of many individual's uncontrollable thirst for authorities. Things will heal, and I look forward to them being gone.

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September 11, 2026, 04:07:19 PM
 #149

there is irony in his (Luke Dash Jr) obsession with CSAM - considering he considers a 15 year old to no longer be a child but instead is a "Young Adult" - He has also stated that a 12 year old was "nearly" a "Young Adult" so by his logic children stop being "children" at between 13-15 years old.

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September 12, 2026, 05:15:09 PM
Merited by ABCbits (2), vapourminer (1)
 #150

Or since miners are evil they can just switch to PoS and only approved stakers can stake so he can have complete control.

Evil miners, as in miners that manage to get too far ahead in the game before Convoy could get their coins.
Seems like Alphapool has had its fill of them and resorted to trolling Luke :
https://mempool.guide/mining/pool/ceooflukecoin

It amazes me how the ones thinking they are fixing Bitcoin aren't aware os simple stuff
-They think of banning miners that don't comply with them, how, in the name of god can you identify a miner?
-They think that a pool running datum is decentralized and good, ofor god sake, Mara could run 100 pools, splitting their hardware into 1000 workers, and it would look ok while they could have 80% of the hahsrate
-Limiting the hashrate of a pool...how do you plan on doing that dorks?
-How do you even call your coin being about the money, then you lunge with a knife at the throat of the guys using it as money?
-Permissionless mining? Never heard of it!
-Confiscating coins? Yeah, much freedom, comrade!



I've seen my share of toxic communities, from altcoins to gaming to reddit subs and so on, but this one....this is on another level!

This will be a lesson on how not to do a fork and how to not run a cult!

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September 12, 2026, 08:38:57 PM
 #151

Every day I see something new about this dumpster fire, I just feel thankful that I dumped it at a good price.

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September 13, 2026, 02:53:40 AM
 #152

@stompix

could not agree with you more. total insanity.

@NotATether - definitely a dumpster fire.

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September 13, 2026, 12:12:46 PM
 #153

What is also kind of funny IMO is the fact that they are all hung up on DATUM so they can form their own blocks.
OK, fine. But....their mempool is so empty that more or less they are just taking all the TX except for some fringe ones and emptying the mempool in every block anyway.

Enjoy your custom block that is every TX in the mempool. It's going to be totally different then my custom block would be with every TX in the mempool.

-Dave

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September 13, 2026, 06:27:02 PM
Merited by DaveF (2), vapourminer (1)
 #154

What is also kind of funny IMO is the fact that they are all hung up on DATUM so they can form their own blocks.
OK, fine. But....their mempool is so empty that more or less they are just taking all the TX except for some fringe ones and emptying the mempool in every block anyway.

Enjoy your custom block that is every TX in the mempool. It's going to be totally different then my custom block would be with every TX in the mempool.

-Dave

datum also lets one pool have all the hash rate without looking like they do. because datum will show each miner separately

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September 14, 2026, 10:44:06 AM
Merited by DaveF (1)
 #155

OK, fine. But....their mempool is so empty that more or less they are just taking all the TX except for some fringe ones and emptying the mempool in every block anyway.

But you need to police something on a fork that ... wait a minute, wasn't this fork supposed to keep evil transactions at bay?
It's going to be quite funny, them going all the way criticizing big pools for censoring transactions, now giving everyone the opportunity to censor them.

The only thing I'm annoyed in all this is that it takes a bit of time for all outputs on the Bitcoin chain to become invalid on their blaketard chain, so they still get enough to delude themselves the chain is used, but probably one two more weeks of mixing coins will end this dream.

 



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September 14, 2026, 02:24:33 PM
 #156

OK, fine. But....their mempool is so empty that more or less they are just taking all the TX except for some fringe ones and emptying the mempool in every block anyway.

But you need to police something on a fork that ... wait a minute, wasn't this fork supposed to keep evil transactions at bay?
It's going to be quite funny, them going all the way criticizing big pools for censoring transactions, now giving everyone the opportunity to censor them.

The only thing I'm annoyed in all this is that it takes a bit of time for all outputs on the Bitcoin chain to become invalid on their blaketard chain, so they still get enough to delude themselves the chain is used, but probably one two more weeks of mixing coins will end this dream.

Looks like they are firm to go from anywhere from 45 days to 1 year for coinbase to mature

https://x.com/cguida6/status/2099283884244431134

Makes you wonder how many people would drop off at that point if they don't have to money not to get paid for mining for an extended period.

-Dave

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September 14, 2026, 03:23:22 PM
Merited by athanred (1)
 #157

there is irony in his (Luke Dash Jr) obsession with CSAM - considering he considers a 15 year old to no longer be a child but instead is a "Young Adult" - He has also stated that a 12 year old was "nearly" a "Young Adult" so by his logic children stop being "children" at between 13-15 years old.
Those that irrationally obsessed over a specific issue like this one tend to have either mental issues or they are hiding/projecting something. If anything, he is among the most likely publicly known Bitcoin users to have content that he should not have.

Looks like they are firm to go from anywhere from 45 days to 1 year for coinbase to mature

https://x.com/cguida6/status/2099283884244431134

Makes you wonder how many people would drop off at that point if they don't have to money not to get paid for mining for an extended period.

-Dave

When the situation is as dire as it is in their case, they do not have that many good options on the table. Since they are trying to do everything possible to make this into a thing, going deeper into their cultism, their actions will continue to get more desperate.

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September 14, 2026, 08:15:03 PM
Last edit: September 15, 2026, 06:39:37 AM by athanred
 #158

Quote
they do not have that many good options on the table
There are many good options, which they simply don't want to use.

1. They didn't have to fork, to remove the spam. If they would process only monetary transactions, and skip everything else, then they would land on the same chain, and would have a faster node. Processing a subset of the mainnet traffic is not a sin, this is one of many reasons, why we have Merkle Trees.
2. There was no need to skip the failing state, and enforce new rules, regardless of the hashrate. If you activate a soft-fork, while having 2.5% hashrate, then you have 40 times slower chain. It is simple math, no matter if you think about BIP-110, or any other proposal. To successfully build on top of a minority chain, you really need a lot of other protections. If you don't have them, then you risk 51% attacks, or a halted chain, when your supporters will give up, because of burning electricity on mining, and getting unspendable coins.
3. When they reached their own minority chain, they didn't have to change the Proof of Work. Having even 2.5% of the network is still in a scale of many EH/s. That's a lot of mining power. If you change it, then you basically encourage all miners, who supported you in the past, to switch to mining different chains. Because firing the miners obviously means, that they won't stop mining: they will be your competitors instead.
4. If you decide to enable Merged Mining, then make sure, to trace the global difficulty, and require that, to reach 51% attacks. If you have your own, local difficulty, enforced and traced locally, then someone can have 1% on a stronger coin, and 60% on your coin, without any costs.

You have one piece of work.  If you solve it, it will solve a block from both Bitcoin and BitDNS.  In concept, they're tied together by a Merkle Tree.  To hand it in to Bitcoin, you break off the BitDNS branch, and to hand it in to BitDNS, you break off the Bitcoin branch.

In practice, to retrofit it for Bitcoin, the BitDNS side would have to have maybe ~200 extra bytes, but that's not a big deal.  You've been talking about 50 domains per block, which would dwarf that little 200 bytes per block for backward compatibility.  We could potentially schedule a far in future block when Bitcoin would upgrade to a modernised arrangement with the Merkle Tree on top, if we care enough about saving a few bytes.

Note that the chains are below this new Merkle Tree.  That is, each of Bitcoin and BitDNS have their own chain links inside their blocks.  This is inverted from the common timestamp server arrangement, where the chain is on top and then the Merkle Tree, because that creates one common master chain.  This is two timestamp servers not sharing a chain.
Read it, piece by piece, and compare it with naive implementation of Merged Mining, used by NameCoin, and copy-pasted almost everywhere else. Can you see anywhere, that each chain should have its own difficulty? Can you see a global difficulty, splitted between many chains, and "tied together by a Merkle Tree", or many difficulties, and separate, loosely connected networks, where stronger chains can attack weaker ones?

Instead of fragmentation, networks share and augment each other's total CPU power.  This would solve the problem that if there are multiple networks, they are a danger to each other if the available CPU power gangs up on one.  Instead, all networks in the world would share combined CPU power, increasing the total strength.  It would make it easier for small networks to get started by tapping into a ready base of miners.
Which means, that to attack a smaller network successfully, you need to have 51% of the global hashrate, not the local one, coming from one of the subnetworks. And how it is implemented almost everywhere? Well, you have one difficulty for Blake chain, one difficulty for Sia network, one difficulty for that chain, another difficulty for another one. And the end result is that you can attack smaller ones, without having 51% globally. And then, it is easy to spread FUD about "Merged Mining being bad", when people just keep copy-pasting the same buggy implementation to each altcoin, hoping that this time, miners from one stronger chain somehow won't attack weaker ones, even though consensus rules, coming from these weaker chains, give them a lot of incentive to do that without any costs.

Also, Luke should know exactly, why naively implemented Merged Mining can be harmful, because he killed CoiledCoin in this way. So, it is something, known for decades, and he should be aware of the risk of using some mining algorithm, which is used by others, and enabling a naive Merged Mining implementation on top of it. Hmm, what could go wrong?

Quote
Since they are trying to do everything possible to make this into a thing, going deeper into their cultism, their actions will continue to get more desperate.
We live in times, where access to the information is easier than ever. If you are wrong, then there is no need to go deeper, and make more mistakes. It is always possible to come back, think it through, and write a better code. Satoshi spent months, even years, working on things from 2007 to 2009, and constantly improving everything, until it was good enough to be released.

Releasing next patches, without planning everything carefully in advance, will turn it into a testnet. Or even worse: a warnet, where everyone would have a lot of incentive to prove, that your network is unsafe.
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September 16, 2026, 09:39:56 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #159

4. If you decide to enable Merged Mining, then make sure, to trace the global difficulty, and require that, to reach 51% attacks. If you have your own, local difficulty, enforced and traced locally, then someone can have 1% on a stronger coin, and 60% on your coin, without any costs.

All true, and important points. Especially, you need bitcoin miners to use merged mining with your altcoin. That's an aspect that can't be solved with technical prowess, as merged mining on the part of bitcoin miners is a voluntary action (as is participation in a minority chain in general, since verifying/broadcasting transactions isn't literally zero-effort).

On the other hand, it's not just global-hashrate-proportional difficulty being available to altcoins (and thereby giving a chance of protection from selfish-mining attacks) but actually implemented properly. The local vs. global difficulty bug I mentioned that made projects like CoiledCoin vulnerable to destruction via merged mining is still copy-pasted throughout merged-mining altcoin code as far as I can tell.

Instead of fragmentation, networks share and augment each other's total CPU power. This would solve the problem that if there are multiple networks, they are a danger to each other if the available CPU power gangs up on one.

I thought we were past "fix the difficulty model" being seen as a solution. The problem isn't theoretical attack vectors. It's that nobody with actual hashrate has any reason to opt-in to it.

AuxPow worked for Namecoin because there were adequate incentives for BTC miners to merge-mine (fees if they ran a NC-compatible pool, ideological interest, etc.). This proposed fork has ~$0 value, isn't supported by exchanges, and is hostile to the BTC userbase. There is little-to-no incentive for them to go out of their way and take even a minimal effort to merge-mine it. BIP-110/BJr isn't going to fix that.
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