Passphrase: What is it & when to use it (or not to)

[_act_]

I’ve seen some Bitcoin security experts, such as Jameson Lopp, recommend against using passphrases because they are easy to forget or lose, which leaves you unable to access your Bitcoin.

I have never felt comfortable with that kind of advice and use a long, complex passphrase anyways. If the Coldcard users had done the same, the hackers would not have been able to steal over $100 million so easily. It might not be the perfect setup, but I would rather not take any chances and rely solely on the entropy generated by my hardware wallet.

And some people will be believing him. There are some things I can never believe. If anyone can lose his wallet passphrase, definitely the person can lose his wallet seed phrase.

Passphrase is not what is memorized, but the best is to have the passphrase backup just like you have the seed phrase backup. There is nothing bad about that at all.

Or you can memorize both as the third backup after two offline backup stored in two different locations.

[hugeblack]

It should be noted that some HW device wallets have limits in Passphrase, and that if a Passphrase is created with strong entropy, it is better than a Passphrase with long word characters, as the probability of forgetting it or writing one of the characters incorrectly is high, and then you will not be able to know which character is incorrect since there is no checksum.

[arwin100]

It should be noted that some HW device wallets have limits in Passphrase, and that if a Passphrase is created with strong entropy, it is better than a Passphrase with long word characters, as the probability of forgetting it or writing one of the characters incorrectly is high, and then you will not be able to know which character is incorrect since there is no checksum.

The strength of passphrase is not all about the length, but yeah on actual entropy which you have said behinds it. Also we can add up its usability.

A strong passphrase  which realistically hard to recall might really became a huge risk for them, because they might really have a problem remembering that details.

So best to consider that use reliable passphrase which they can easy to maintain, then match it with ideal operational habits like doing good verification, pay much attention on securing their back ups and avoid those complicated set ups which can possibly give them an issue.

Strong security will only became effective if the user consistently executes those good action to maintain their wallets.

[Emjay24]

Passphrases offer a risk mitigation for such situations. It's only your responsibility to level up to a seed that's even tougher to reach. That way, when somebody gets access to your seed phrase, your Bitcoin's still intact in the strong hidden pocket of the same seed.

You've covered a good topic on importance of passphrase, I also want to mention that it is of equal importance that you safeguard the device you use in generating the wallet which has both a seed and a passphrase. It is best you include a very strong password upon creation of the wallet and the reason is to protect the wallet if the device gets into the hands of a third party.

Some of us may think it is safe to just create and delete the wallet without adding passwords, but we should know that deleted items on drives are recoverable and if your wallet file is recovered and it is without password, then it is an easy access to both your seed phrase and your passphrase. It is better that you use a strong password even though you'll delete it, in that case, even if it is recovered, the third party cannot have access to the wallet without its password.

[Sticky Bomb]

the probability of forgetting it or writing one of the characters incorrectly is high, and then you will not be able to know which character is incorrect since there is no checksum.

This is why it is very important to reimport your wallet in another window and compare the addresses that it generates and if there is any difference, you correct the mistake in documentation while it is still early and reimport again until you get it right. If you don't confirm before storing the credentials, then it means you cannot access your funds in the future if you loose the wallet in the device used in generating the seeds and passphrase.

[Coyster]

I’ve seen some Bitcoin security experts, such as Jameson Lopp, recommend against using passphrases because they are easy to forget or lose, which leaves you unable to access your Bitcoin.

The case is true for people who try to memorize their passphrase, rather than back it up. I know that an extra level of security can be complicating for certain people and there could be a risk of losing their bitcoins because they locked themselves out of it.

Nevertheless, i think the pros of a passphrase, outweigh its cons, because other than protecting your funds if your seed phrase is ever compromised, it could also protect you from physical attacks, what we call a $5 wrench attack in the community.

[Sticky Bomb]

The attacks, actually, gather more information and log it; they don't just act immediately once they've collected it. I think they use a script to automate everything, sweeping all the seed they stole and moving it to one address. I don't think they have perfect time for me; they have a specific time or free time for doing it.

The much I've read use scripts and where it becomes very crazy is the emergence of zero click exploits where your device can be compromised without requiring any action from you, so every caution must be taken, there is no harm in being too careful right?

If you're using an air gap or offline/cold storage device, then you've already prevented someone from seeing what you're doing; no one could see your seed except in physical attacks or possible CCTV. If you do have it in your house, it's better to turn off all your CCTV first before generating an offline wallet.

You need to shut all doors and close your windows with a dark curtain as well, you never can tell who is watching or peeping when your back is turned.

[dkbit98]

I would not recommend everyone to use passphrase before first understanding they could lose everything if they lose or don't check and backup this passphrase.
This adds additional protection but it also adds a bit more complexity for bitcoin newbies.
There are people who lost access to their coins because they made mistake writting passphrase, and they didn't verify it first.

[SeriouslyGiveaway]

I would not recommend everyone to use passphrase before first understanding they could lose everything if they lose or don't check and backup this passphrase.
This adds additional protection but it also adds a bit more complexity for bitcoin newbies.
There are people who lost access to their coins because they made mistake writting passphrase, and they didn't verify it first.

Newbies can start with custodial wallets on exchanges, then non custodial wallets with single signature. When they practice enough, and already master these things, they can consider to use either multisig wallets or add passphrase to their wallet seed phrase.

With either single signature, multi signature wallets without passphrase, or a wallet with passphrase, they must do similar steps: back up a wallet (includes wallet seed, passphrase depending on their wallet type), test their wallet backup, use it for recovery and compare the original wallet and a wallet from recovery, if things are accurately, they can use that wallet.

Don't test and verify their backup is a very terrible practice. Backups are only actual backups if they are accurately made and can be used for recovering a same original wallet.

How to back up a wallet?

.
Seed Backup Threat Model

We already know why we are creating seed backups - to protect against loss of whatever devices (if any) we are storing the keys on for regular use. But what do we need to worry about protecting the backups themselves against?

    Loss due to destruction
    Loss due to complexity / not being able to restore from backup
    Loss to an attacker

Test Your Backup

Regardless of which backup scheme you choose, if you don't actually do a test run of restoring a wallet from it, you can't be confident that it will work when you actually need it.

How should you go about testing your backup?

    Create a new wallet.
    Create your seed phrase backups.
    Deposit a small amount of funds into the wallet, like $10 or $20 worth.
    If possible, create a new wallet with a different name, otherwise delete your current wallet.
    Initialize the new wallet using your seed phrase backup, make sure the funds appear in the wallet, and that you can spend them.

[avp2306]

I would not recommend everyone to use passphrase before first understanding they could lose everything if they lose or don't check and backup this passphrase.
This adds additional protection but it also adds a bit more complexity for bitcoin newbies.
There are people who lost access to their coins because they made mistake writting passphrase, and they didn't verify it first.

Great warning for people think that they are 100% safe if they used passphrase. Since this is somehow an advance security layer of their wallet and not actually default security for newbies.

More ideal things need to learn by newbies is the basic ones like try to do back up, then do recovery testing, also they should know how to verify.

Once they know the basics, then it make sense to start adding passphrase, this is like they adding extra barrier on their wallet. Also this is powerful option if they just know how to properly handle it, but also it can be dangerous if they have less knowledge and lose it.

[Antotena]

the probability of forgetting it or writing one of the characters incorrectly is high, and then you will not be able to know which character is incorrect since there is no checksum.

This is why it is very important to reimport your wallet in another window and compare the addresses that it generates and if there is any difference, you correct the mistake in documentation while it is still early and reimport again until you get it right. If you don't confirm before storing the credentials, then it means you cannot access your funds in the future if you loose the wallet in the device used in generating the seeds and passphrase.

This process is good but it's a poor practice for safe wallet. If you are going to back test your seed phrase, it's not good to import directly on a window except if you are using a hot wallet. If the seed phrase is generated with a hot wallet, it will make sense if you use another hot wallet to see if it's the right wallet and seed phrase you back but if you use a cold wallet, don't use a hot wallet to test, use the same cold wallet to test if it's the right wallet seed phrase.

Wallet protection is easy to handle from user end, if your wallet did not generate a wrong seed phrase with bad random number, you don't even need a passphrase. However, with the recent Coldcard exploit, use it even though your wallet seed phrase is having no problem. It will make more sense going forward if the hardware wallet are going to make an option for people to roll dice and create their wallet instead of depending on one from the hardware wallet.

[Franklyn-wood]

When we buy Bitcoin, we buy self sovereignty. We're responsible for whatever mistake we end up making and its level of security depends on what we do & how we treat our coins.

What you've said here's very factual.
When you buys bitcoin, you owns monetary freedom that it's security, risks and controls is rest on you while the bitcoin network is already decentralized and given every user's right to custody their coins..
Because custody is being a right is the reason why learned user's who can afford hardware wallet spends extra money to buy just to store private keys offline to strengthen the security.
Some also goes beyond engraving their seed phrases of metal objects to prevent natural disasterous threats like fire and water.

The security of a one investment is very important at all levels and can't be over emphasize at all.
Passphrase is a set of words or text used to secure a device that works like password, it is more secure than using password in a device because is it hard to imagine or guess by intruders. It is a good way to secure the device with Fatal information.
When to use passphrase is when there is need for higher security of certain data and information that are crucial to us in a Device.

[Coyster]

Wallet protection is easy to handle from user end, if your wallet did not generate a wrong seed phrase with bad random number, you don't even need a passphrase.

I don't think so, a passphrase does more than protect users from critical vulnerabilities on the part of the wallet's developers, such as the Coldcard firmware bug. A passphrase offers protection from remote attackers, say someone finds where you stored your seed phrase in your house, they'd be unable to steal your funds, except you have a weak passphrase that can be bruteforced. Like i already said, it also offers protection from a $5 wrench attack.

[DYOR+BTC]

The use of seed phase is a well developed means of providing adequate security for our asset, many prefers a very lengthy seed phase while others use a very sensitive characters that will be very difficult to predict by intruders. Although between lengthy and an unimaginable characters are of the same function with just remembrance issues.  At time the use of lengthy letter can make one forget his seed phase but that doesn't write it off as a good option but all depends on the individual involved in it.

[DPHOR]

You actually made a good post here and to those who doesn't care about their security, security is the only problem that could affect your investment and if your security is tight then there could be difficulty for people to brute force themselves into your wallet because your security level is actually strong, to have more additional security guides people should learn to remove all their seedphrase and private keys online, what I meant by online is that they should not store it on their mobile device such as phone and PC. With this that they could likely have access to their private information.

[PostQuantumBTC]

I don't think so, a passphrase does more than protect users from critical vulnerabilities on the part of the wallet's developers, such as the Coldcard firmware bug. A passphrase offers protection from remote attackers, say someone finds where you stored your seed phrase in your house, they'd be unable to steal your funds, except you have a weak passphrase that can be bruteforced. Like i already said, it also offers protection from a $5 wrench attack.

This is the main reason I started using passphrase, not knowing it can help in situations like Coldcard. I am not comfortable having only seed phrase which I know someone can see and have access to my bitcoin, so I started using passphrase to create any wallet that I want to create.

At time the use of lengthy letter can make one forget his seed phase but that doesn't write it off as a good option but all depends on the individual involved in it.

At times the use of lengthy letter can make one forget his seed phase or passphrase? If you mean passphrase, it is better you back up the passphrase somewhere like 2 places than relying on memory.

[Sticky Bomb]

the probability of forgetting it or writing one of the characters incorrectly is high, and then you will not be able to know which character is incorrect since there is no checksum.

This is why it is very important to reimport your wallet in another window and compare the addresses that it generates and if there is any difference, you correct the mistake in documentation while it is still early and reimport again until you get it right. If you don't confirm before storing the credentials, then it means you cannot access your funds in the future if you loose the wallet in the device used in generating the seeds and passphrase.

This process is good but it's a poor practice for safe wallet. If you are going to back test your seed phrase, it's not good to import directly on a window except if you are using a hot wallet. If the seed phrase is generated with a hot wallet, it will make sense if you use another hot wallet to see if it's the right wallet and seed phrase you back but if you use a cold wallet, don't use a hot wallet to test, use the same cold wallet to test if it's the right wallet seed phrase.

Let's get things straight here, I'm neither talking about hot wallets nor am I talking about testing on another device.  I'm referring to the same cold storage setup, still in the same device.

When you open another instance of the same Electrum wallet in file>new, it's called a new window. That's where you should reimport the seed phrase and the passphrase you've just written down after you created the wallet and place the two instances (the parent wallet and the new one you just reimported your credentials into) side by side to confirmr addresses are same. This is more applicable if you're using a computer.

[Pumpsta]

I would not recommend everyone to use passphrase before first understanding they could lose everything if they lose or don't check and backup this passphrase.
This adds additional protection but it also adds a bit more complexity for bitcoin newbies.
There are people who lost access to their coins because they made mistake writting passphrase, and they didn't verify it first.

Can't they easily crack a mistype tho? They're told it's like a password & using it creates a hidden wallet, it should be obvious that they'd lose access without it, no?

[m2017]

What are the risks?

The main risk of having a passphrase involves forgetfulness or loss.

As if these risks didn't apply to standard 12\24-word seed-phrases.

If you can find the 12/24 word seed phrase but can't figure out what the passphrase was, you're out of luck - your Bitcoin is gone.

Therefore, it is best to write down the passphrase alongside the 12\24-word seed-phrase. Of course, this creates an additional risk: if someone discovers your seed-phrase, they could gain full access. But let’s be honest, with a high degree of probability, a user is far more likely to lose access to the wallet (by forgetting the passphrase) than to have its contents stolen by someone discovering both the seed-phrase + passphrase.

Since both are required to access your BTC & it's recommended to store them separately, the chance of screwing up increases.

So, don't store them separately. It’s as if offline malefactors were "hunting" down every single bitcoiner.

How do we store it?

We store it in a safe place, of course. But a passphrase needs a place separate from your seed so even if anyone finds the seed, they can do nothing with it unless they find the passphrase too. Avoid paper & other materials that quickly degrade/combust, or places with high traffic.

In all likelihood, that "anyone" will turn out to be the user themselves.

That way, when somebody gets access to your seed phrase, your Bitcoin's still intact in the strong hidden pocket of the same seed.

Of course, unless they crack your passphrase using a brute-force attack.

[Pumpsta]

I get where you're coming from man, but I don't agree. If the goal's an extra security layer against coldcard-like situations though, then why not also take the opportunity to protect it physically yea the chance's low but what if...? It's really just 2 things to hide instead of 1, not like 100, it's not such a big deal imo