The Unintended Effects of Having Too Many Restrictions on the Forum

[Comeacross]

I will emphasise on the beginners and help board. I have said this before that it's almost impossible not to have a repetitive discussion in the beginner and several other boards. The forum has been in existence for more than a decade now, most important and genuine questions have been asked and answered several times. Not everyone was here that time. Both genuine and fake newbies find it hard to locate threads that address some of these issues. Some don't even put in effort to search the forum before rushing to create a thread.

The truth is there is basically no much to discuss like before. There's more posts almost every day but with just little to learn from them. How new accounts are popping out from nowhere is also insane. I made a thread about it some months back but it seems the idea was not welcomed by majority. This is the thread Bitcointalk attention scarcity. Can Bitcointalk adjust difficulty?

It's ridiculous how we complain about the noise in the forum but frown when measures are being taken to curb the noise. 

[Hatchy]

Now all newbies from Nigeria are starting their "work experience" in the politics section in order to gain activity. Another section is the gambling section, again, to get statistics on future company signatures.
Therefore, OP, once again, all your "new" people are visible in the politics section, in the buy-sell topic and, of course, in the local section. Explain to them the importance of reading, not expressing your opinion, and creating topics (recurring regularly) that are not new, not once.

I'm not sure I've interacted directly with you before on the forum because I don't really see any reasons to. I dislike when people acts like racist when the obvious is in front of them.
Why are you bringing up my local board on this? Is there any where I specified that on this post? Look if you all use your racist shit on others, I'm different so save yourself the stress. The thread was never about my local board, so why bring them up? I already know that the likes of you dislikes people from the Nigerian local board because of how they chose to display on the forum but please don't bring up unnecessary things in discussions where there aren't necessary.. besides if you read through my reply to the mod on beginners and help board, you will see that I had no issues with locking those repetitive threads, i was only talking about the numerous locked thread on the different pages of the board.

[Mia Chloe]

Understood. I can see the point you're trying to make. I think Mia Chloe made the same point about the moved topics I left behind in the past. It is a bit sad right now, but it will slowly fade to the background, since I really don't want to move the topics that got locked because of the new general thread. The warnings were good to have and Google will index them in B&H and not in Archival (IIRC).
All we need now are newbies asking real questions.

I think what Hatchy could be intending to point out is topics get locked too quickly. He has a point but then again if a thread has served it's purpose it's not a necessity to lock it. It only becomes necessary if more people are making repetitive Comments that really doesn't add any extra value to the discussion. Aside from this it's fine to leave it open.

That aside there's no need moving all locked posts to archival if that's where you are driving. A post serving it's purpose and eventually getting locked to prevent spam doesn't automatically make it off topic or unfit for it's original board.

[Bitcoin-Forever]

I want you both to read this and understand more better, this forum is to serve it purpose and not to also be too strict for newbies in other that they feel being restricted from some certain things they could do or contribute in the forum.

What is most considerable here is to completely avoid those that will mess up the entire platform with spam post or any other scam related offers or intentions, good people are everywhere and the same you can discover bad people anywhere.

the forum's mission to be as free as possible.
~
Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. ~ When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc.

LoyceV quoted the same on another thread and this caught my attention as being made applicable same on what you both are discussing.

[TokenTikas]

If the OP has got his answer, is there any need of keeping the thread open for users to repeat what’s been said before?

Whether it is a new or old user, if they create a thread to know something and the original poster gets the right answer there, then there is no problem if they lock it. Now, if a topic has been asked for and a proper (answers or discussions) has been given on that topic, it is better for the moderator or the original poster to lock it.

However, the moderators are very active and keep those posts open as they are informative or discussed, but it is better to lock those that have been answered correctly and no new informative (answers or discussions) can be expected.

[IjawMan]

I will emphasise on the beginners and help board. I have said this before that it's almost impossible not to have a repetitive discussion in the beginner and several other boards. The forum has been in existence for more than a decade now, most important and genuine questions have been asked and answered several times. Not everyone was here that time. Both genuine and fake newbies find it hard to locate threads that address some of these issues. Some don't even put in effort to search the forum before rushing to create a thread.

May be the older we get in the forum the closer we get in forgetting why that board of the forum is called Beginners and Help.

The sooner the title is accepted that beginners behaviours will never cease to be repeated in that section the more peaceful and less angered any older user who have understood the forum will be about the repetitive questions from newbies there.  I'm not sure how others will process this but it is the genuine truth.

The repetitive topics may never be over so long the forum is open to new members. But while If a smart newbie come into the forum and getting awareness of how long the forum has been existing he then decides to do his research about questions he wants to ask, just to know they have been discussed or not dew to the age of the forum.

Now, on doing his search and learning that every question he wished to ask has been asked by newbies before him, and for that decides to work his way around the forum as a normal user and getting involved in discussions newbies are gauge to not supposed to be familiar with, but dew to the smartness, the newbie already knows it. 

Another problem. This smart types of newbies gets attacked and suspected of not being real newbies. But the forum laments when a newbie shows the signs of what the  forum expects newbies to manifest.

[alegotardo]

~~~

I see two points in all of this:

The first is that a large part of this forum's traffic is really going to the Gambling section and as someone who posts a lot there, I can safely say: there is sooo many posts with low quality  or posts that do not add any real opinion or useful info to threads.

The other point is that sign-campaigns are still what "motivate" a lot part of the users to keep posting here and keep the forum active instead to moving the discussion to other more user-friendly platforms like Reddit, for example. And this pressure on sign-campaigns could make marketing of these companies more difficult, drive them away from this forum and consequently affect overall activity.

Maybe this would not be a bad thing... maybe we really need "a cleanup" to rethink the purpose of Bitcointalk and think more about the quality and purpose of each post without having a financial return behind it.

The question that really remains is: would that actually be the right path? I do not know!

[BlackBoss_]

The first is that a large part of this forum's traffic is really going to the Gambling section and as someone who posts a lot there, I can safely say: there is sooo many posts with low quality  or posts that do not add any real opinion or useful info to threads.

They post badly because they recognized that it's easiest to post in Gambling discussion board so they only post there or mostly post there for their weekly quota. If a campaign requires 20 posts a week but only 10 posts in that board, if they are aware of their possible spam effects, they can self-limit themselves with only 10 posts in Gambling discussion board, then the remaining 10 posts in other boards.

It would be a best post distributions over different boards but of course, they should not diversify their posts in boards they have zero knowledge about like Technical boards. There are already reports against spammers in Technical boards but I guess reasons are not posting there for weekly quota but for merit.

It does not automatically mean if they post in different boards, they don't spam the forum as the most important thing belongs to their post quality.

[MisFoxie]

The first many pages of the Beginners & Help board are filled with locked threads, many of which did not even have the opportunity to develop into meaningful discussions.

I think we will be able to understand whether there is any harm only after knowing why the threads were Lock. According to the picture you provided most of the threads are duplicates and already answered. I think locking a thread where that topics useful answers have already been given helps keep the board much more clean and useful. We cannot say whether the moderation is excessive just by looking at the number of threads locked here.

When people constantly feel restricted or attacked in a place they believe should allow open discussion, they may simply stop participating and move on.

It is possible but I think it is still a prediction, not that it actually happened. Because of the moderation we may see a positive effect. New user who come will be quite impressed by the forum when they see that there is no repetitive and low quality content they will learn from it as well. I think we need to pay attention to actual user engagement and content quality before assuming that strict moderation will drive valuable users away.

[lovesmayfamilis]

Now all newbies from Nigeria are starting their "work experience" in the politics section in order to gain activity. Another section is the gambling section, again, to get statistics on future company signatures.
Therefore, OP, once again, all your "new" people are visible in the politics section, in the buy-sell topic and, of course, in the local section. Explain to them the importance of reading, not expressing your opinion, and creating topics (recurring regularly) that are not new, not once.

I'm not sure I've interacted directly with you before on the forum because I don't really see any reasons to. I dislike when people acts like racist when the obvious is in front of them.
Why are you bringing up my local board on this? Is there any where I specified that on this post? Look if you all use your racist shit on others, I'm different so save yourself the stress. The thread was never about my local board, so why bring them up? I already know that the likes of you dislikes people from the Nigerian local board because of how they chose to display on the forum but please don't bring up unnecessary things in discussions where there aren't necessary.. besides if you read through my reply to the mod on beginners and help board, you will see that I had no issues with locking those repetitive threads, i was only talking about the numerous locked thread on the different pages of the board.

Well, first of all, I want you to completely remove what you call racism on my part; it does not exist and never was. For me, there is only one race on earth, and that is man. But I've shown you an example of what you're best at so that you can understand it faster with an example. New topics in the beginner section are created intentionally by "new" people, and I have quoted to you the most likely reason, since topics like "hello, here I am" or something similar are not created to improve the forum.

I want you both to read this and understand more better, this forum is to serve it purpose and not to also be too strict for newbies in other that they feel being restricted from some certain things they could do or contribute in the forum.

What is most considerable here is to completely avoid those that will mess up the entire platform with spam post or any other scam related offers or intentions, good people are everywhere and the same you can discover bad people anywhere.

I would like you to "turn off" the teacher where you are not asked about it, since both of us perfectly understand what and how beginners need to do, and we absolutely do not need explanations (additional) from your side. You can suck up and nod along in other topics; maybe they'll throw you a piece of pie, merit. 🥱🥱🥱

[notocactus]

Now all newbies from Nigeria are starting their "work experience" in the politics section in order to gain activity. Another section is the gambling section, again, to get statistics on future company signatures.

I would like you to "turn off" the teacher where you are not asked about it, since both of us perfectly understand what and how beginners need to do, and we absolutely do not need explanations (additional) from your side. You can suck up and nod along in other topics; maybe they'll throw you a piece of pie, merit. 🥱🥱🥱

They are good in creating problems, then asking for solutions.
Newbies Stop Teaching When You Need To Learn.

They can do things like creating many topics about one side of a discussion or issue, then if that side of opinion is not supported by forum members, like legendary members or merit sources, they will flip their cards, and create a new wave of other topics on a same discussion/ issues but in an opposite side of opinion.

It's how clever to get merit. That topic is an example.  

Once upon a time, there was a trend like will or should we teach kids about Bitcoin?
If community opinion is mostly against it, a new wave of topics will be "we should avoid teaching kids about Bitcoin too early". 

[Hatchy]

Well, first of all, I want you to completely remove what you call racism on my part; it does not exist and never was. For me, there is only one race on earth, and that is man. But I've shown you an example of what you're best at so that you can understand it faster with an example. New topics in the beginner section are created intentionally by "new" people, and I have quoted to you the most likely reason, since topics like "hello, here I am" or something similar are not created to improve the forum.

Alright that's better, I'm fine you aren't one of them "racist" I clearly understand your point now. It has always been a habit for many on the beginners and help board to create new topics to ask repeated questions. But my main point was that even if the moderator keeps on locking those kinds of threads, if won't put an end to it. Once in a while we will still have genuine newbies who will pop up to ask questions about this place. Except we don't have such anymore. Newbies are the future of bitcointalk, we old members won't be here forever so we have to see that knowledge is passed on.. Im aware of the pinned threads on the meta and beginners & help boards, but sometimes could be over look by newbies or they might not understand and need further explanations..

It's how clever to get merit. That topic is an example. 

Once upon a time, there was a trend like will or should we teach kids about Bitcoin?
If community opinion is mostly against it, a new wave of topics will be "we should avoid teaching kids about Bitcoin too early". 

Lol, the pattern is endless I can list a lot of them I've seen on the forum. Truth be told everyone can have different view of same things. But creating threads out of a topic that can be created as a reply sometimes is meaningless because people will still have to make similar responses on the different threads.

[Mitchell]

The amount of generic warnings/first posts that are currently being posted in B&H makes me wonder if people feel like that is suddenly okay after this topic (or just in general, unsure if it is related, but it does feel that way). Just wanted to point out that isn't the case.

Topics like this add only clutter and encourage signature spam:

Can anyone help me how could I work on this forum?

It actually annoyed me that nobody reported it. We have a general topic on how to earn money, but also, it doesn't really ask anything, "work on this forum" is vague. We cannot help someone if they don't even know what actual help they need.

The stickied topics contain so much information about the forum, Bitcoin, what do to do, what our rules are, etc. I know how it was when I started, back when newbie jail was still a thing. I've re-read my old posts and I find them to be cringe now, but it is 13 years ago. Either way, at least I knew the basics, kind of, and bothered to read stickied topics.

edit: If this is too off-topic, I'll remove it Hatchy, just let me know.

[Satofan44]

• Firstly the begginers and help board is a major board on the forum and as a result it can be spammed most times due to the multiple posts being created in it.
  

imo, the Beginners and help board does not need super moderation. It is a board where all sorts of help are been sought, it is a board for beginners and a learning ground for new comers. So it should be the board with the highest level of tolerance. In some forums they restrict newbies to a certain board for some times for them to learn.

I support Op here, the moderation there should be lenient.

Most of the threads and responses are not genuine posts, they are rehashed nonsense posted solely in order to farm the post count and get paid for the campaign. 99% of the threads there can be closed after the first page is filled. Therefore, this claim and request is completely incorrect. If you want to enable more spamming of useless posts, then you'd be correct.

The amount of generic warnings/first posts that are currently being posted in B&H makes me wonder if people feel like that is suddenly okay after this topic (or just in general, unsure if it is related, but it does feel that way). Just wanted to point out that isn't the case.

Topics like this add only clutter and encourage signature spam:

Can anyone help me how could I work on this forum?

It actually annoyed me that nobody reported it. We have a general topic on how to earn money, but also, it doesn't really ask anything, "work on this forum" is vague. We cannot help someone if they don't even know what actual help they need.

The stickied topics contain so much information about the forum, Bitcoin, what do to do, what our rules are, etc. I know how it was when I started, back when newbie jail was still a thing. I've re-read my old posts and I find them to be cringe now, but it is 13 years ago. Either way, at least I knew the basics, kind of, and bothered to read stickied topics.

edit: If this is too off-topic, I'll remove it Hatchy, just let me know.

They don't care about that because the threads are posted to enable their account farms and their colleagues to farm post count by repetitive shitposts. A real newbie that is genuine and useful would do some research first, and those that wouldn't are not needed here.